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  1. #11
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    Rich and Chris

    I've been reading the comments from you both with interest. Reviewing your differing opinions and rationally weighing up both sides of the debate. I don't know if you or anyone else has noticed, but there is common ground to both of your arguments. The length of some of your sentences are friggin phenominal !!!

    Come on fellas, proper punctuation is not the work of the devil, nor is it the science of the rocket

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanddancer View Post
    rich and chris....

    ....come on fellas, proper punctuation is not the work of the devil, nor is it the science of the rocket
    .......is !
    Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss.
    -- Lazarus Long

    jim@visionimpossible.biz

  3. #13
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    Thanks, Rich. If you are ever in West London, you are welcome to pop in - just email beforehand.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H View Post
    Chris,

    I won't be changing my approach as I don't believe in the other way of - 'if you can't beat them join them'!

    I'm still doing what I can to change the NOS but this can only come about from within and not as a result of protest or lobbying.

    Good luck with your venture though. I think you'll need a little.



    Rich H

    Its not just the content, or lack thereof of the NOS Rich, its also the hours it is delivered in. You could have a the NOS perfect and surpassing any other standard - but if the powers that be decree it can be taught in 150 hours, thats what TP's will deliver it in and not a second more. In ten days with students running 15 hour days (except they don't of course).

    Aside that, I agree that modular is not a way forward. We need consistancy and flowing in the training. If we want to make it easier for students to absorb, give them more time to do so, like a return to the four week courses that existed prior to the SIA.

    Then we can actually practice something too.
    Last edited by Scab; 10-05-2011 at 12:27.

  5. #15
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    Well, that's why our course runs over 220 hours and not 150, though it is still not enough!

  6. #16
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    It remains a balance, or rather priority, between standards and profit. A business is after all, a business and the aim hence, is profit. In order to create better standards the TP will be cutting of its nose despite its face insofar as the competition.

    In siding with SkyBridge, they do have a very difficult task. However, are we to name things as 'Introductions' to soften the blow or do we stand for what is right for the role and implement a proper fit for purpose standard that no other TP does?

    If you're a business it depends on financial backbone, time, effort and the willingness to uphold the professionalism that this industry so demands. If you're aim is a fast buck then this of course is of no interest.

    As far as time covering the ground is Scab, this is all part of standards, standards, standards.



    Rich H

  7. #17
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    if we name it an introduction to CP, it should not be delivering a license to practise at the end of it. Change the name we might, unless there is then a proper CP course to do as a follow up, the introduction will be the only course available and thus, not actually an introduction only!

  8. #18
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    Wouldn't it make sense if there was an introduction course granting some type of a beginners lisense which would only allow work under supervision in a team so that people would actually acquire work experience on a job under secure supervision of highly qualified professionals? Then there could be an advanced course for another 2-3 weeks teaching to be a team leader, work in high risk environment, etc.? This would make more sense but is probably not applicable to the commercial world and will never be approved by the government...

  9. #19
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    SkyBridge,

    Not applicable? More likely - not viable or indeed, sensible. 'On the job training/ experience is not the place for CP ops. The TL and others have enough to do than babysit a newbie - and why should they?

    This industry never ceases to amaze me. The goal posts are forever moving, standards are forever being reviewed and yet still fall far short. What for? So that business can increase their purchase on profit angles.

    Beginners license Chris? Come on now.



    Rich H

  10. #20
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    Whatever, Rich. Just trying to suggest options. I train guys who come to me and I babysit them and eventually they either become professional or they never make it in the industry because they are incapable and they are being told so. At least I maintain my standards for my team. Are you trying to suggest that someone comes to work for you after 2-3 weeks training with no previous experience and you will trust them with your life? Whatever we say, 150 or even 220 hours is not enough to produce a capable operator and that's the bottom line. Without additional 'on the job' training these guys are just the beginners... Anyway, got to go now. As I said, you are always welcome to our office for a personal debate. Have a good day. Chris

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