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  1. #1
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    Default Need help with nutrition? Look here.

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    Do I need a diet?
    Yes. You can't out-train bad nutrition. If you don't have an appropriate diet for your personal needs then all of your hard work in the gym will count for nothing.

    Calculating your caloric needs

    There are several methods on how to do this, I'll state them below. This is the first step you take in your journey to changing your body and one of the most important.

    1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
    MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
    WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

    2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
    MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
    WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

    3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

    These formulas will give you a spit-out number and in almost all cases will not be 100% accurate, so you'll have to experiment a bit. If you gain 1lb per week, lower your calories by 100 until you gain nothing and stay at the same weight. This is called your Total Energy Expenditure (TEE).

    Now you implement your body goal. If you want to build muscle then you need to start a caloric surplus, this means going over the calories you need to maintain weight by around 10-20%. You will gain a bit of fat, but if you're lifting heavy and regulary you will gain muscle aswell. I recommend you gain only 1lb per week.

    If you want to lose fat, then I'd go with losing only 1lb per week by subtracting 10-20% from your TEE. You can push this to 2lb per week, its your preference - the higher amount of weight you lose per week will result in more muscle mass loss and muscle is harder to gain back.


    Macronutrient Requirements

    This is your protein, carbohydrates and fats.

    1g of protein per lb of total bodyweight.
    .5g of fat per lb of total bodyweight.
    You do not need a set amount of carbohydrates as they are not a necessary macronutrient.

    For example, if a 225lb man required 3,000 calories to cut bodyfat, his intake per day would be the following:

    Protein: 225g - 900 calories
    Fat: 113g fat - 1,017 calories

    This means he has 1,083 calories remaining to play with (eat anything he wants) to make up the rest of the calories to 3,000 and meet his goal of losing weight. These calories can come from any combination of protein, fats or carbohydrates.

    1g of protein - 4 calories
    1g of carbohydrates - 4 calories
    1g of fat - 9 calories


    What now?

    Pick a routine!

    I'll update this section shortly with links to two workouts, one will focus on hypertrophy (muscle growth) and another will focus on strength.

    Do I need to workout to lose fat?
    No. Aslong as you're in a caloric deficit, you can lose fat by doing absolutely nothing.

    Meal Frequency
    This is a complete myth that if you eat every two hours you will lose fat faster or gain muscle quicker. Many, many many studies have shown this to have no relevant affect on body composition.

    Does everything I put in my mouth need to be bland? Chicken, rice, water.. blah
    No! I made this mistake when I first started lifting.. chicken and brown rice got boring fast.

    Read what I posted above, aslong as you meet your macronutrient requirements then your body doesn't care if its getting 20g of protein from chicken or a pizza. I have a cheese pizza nearly every night, along with curries, kebabs, chips etc and I'm still building muscle with minimal fat gain.

    Which supplements do I need to purchase?
    In short, none.

    You don't NEED any supplement. Supplements mean to meet the requirements that you cannot do in your primary way - eating. If you cannot get enough protein in your diet, take a scoop of whey protein and that'll give you an additional 20-50g of protein.

    If you want to experiment, I'd buy creatine. Its a good, cheap supplement and it works.
    Last edited by ryand; 19-11-2012 at 07:36.

  2. #2
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    Unless your on a fish only diet your dependent on the soils minerals not being depleted and the animals diet particularly. Iodine, Magnesium, Selenium, B6, vit c.

    Magnesium in supplement form raises mag levels but you can get the additional benefit of raising your own DHEA hormone using Magnesmium chloride which benefits labido and energy. Epsom salt doesn't seem to work the same however the sulphates are a hard mineral to come by as well so maybe using both can help. These are not to be ingested but used in a 12-20 minute soak or spray. (i lost the abstract i had on chloride but from using it myself prior to reading the science on it i can definitly attest to the energy and labido raise i wasn't expecting from it).

    Essentially its 400-600g (if espom) or 1kg or more of chloride in a bath or foot soak using luke warm water for no longer than 20 minutes. Highly rate this stuff.

    As for iodine i haven't yet experimented with this stuff but will when i get my corty saliva results back so watch this space.

  3. #3
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    I couldn't imagine being on a restricted diet. I've been right up to 250lbs with 7% bodyfat successfully by eating anything I want aslong as I'm hitting my macronutrient and caloric intakes. I bought some orange triad multivitamin just incase I don't get enough in my diet for a particular day, but I've not had any problems thus far and have been successful since I restarted lifting.

    My breakfast so far has been Sensations (share bag), bowl of ice cream and a pizza.. I'm still losing bodyfat and maintaining muscle mass. I'm currently sitting on 14% bodyfat and weight 182lbs - not the best I've been, but not bad either..

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    Just left the gym an hour ago. Got home had some chow and saw this thread. I have to admit it is a bit too numeric and complicated for me. The big issue is to if you want to lose some weight reduce your calories by 500 a day and by the end of the week you lose 1 pound.

    The biggest burner of fat is muscle. That's right Muscle!!! So if you are involved in some resistance exercises like for example the squat you will generate enough growth hormone and testosterone to gain muscle and burn fat.

    I'm not a guy for diets. The most important thing is to be comfortable within yourself. It's important to be fit for the task!!! The reason I'm not up for diets as I have diabetes and I know what I should and should not eat. Or eating in the right proportions. This is the key. I told my doctor that I give up everything except a piece of bacon for breakfast.

    Things like smoking (which I've never done), alcohol consumption, recreational drugs, staying up all times of the night and not getting enough sleep can sabotage your gains.

    Try to eat every 2-3 hours. I use a small plate and take a piece of fish, chicken or tuna half the size of my fist (as my hands are big) then I add a potato or rice to go along with it. This way your diet as you call it is up to scratch.

    tapmaster

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    Actually Tap, although I like your approach to not caring much for a diet, you're false in some areas.

    Its true, the more muscle you have the more calories you burn, but this doesn't work simultaneously in a realistic fashion. I'd go all out and say its impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time, but I'd be wrong, so instead I'll say its pointless. You need a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle and a caloric deficit to lose weight. Attempting these simultaneously would put you on or around your maintenance area. If you attempt to build muscle and lose fat at the same time and don't have amazing genetics then in a years time you'll look exactly the same, thats how slow the results are - therefore, you should consider bulk > cut > bulk > cut.

    Things like smoking and alcohol will not sabotage your gains.. a few guys I've trained have went on to be hen-night strippers and drink nearly every night but are still in great shape and continue to advance in their goals. Smoking and drinking are bad for your overall health but if you can still eat and lift weights, building muscle won't be a issue - it'll sabotage their lungs and liver, if anything.

    Recreational drugs is another thing, I agree, some drugs will sabotage your gains such as heroin but this is only because they destroy your appetite and no eating results in severe muscle loss. But that said, most recreational drugs can actually improve gains and I've personally spoke with a guy who smokes cannabis to dewind after a workout, relax and fall asleep - this helps him get a minimum of eight hours sleep which is vital for bodybuilders.

    Eating every 2-3 hours is a old fashioned myth, as I've stated above in this thread. Its a matter of satiety or personal preference. I personally eat whenever I get hungry and in large amounts, typically three times a day. What I eat would be considered 'junk food', but at the end of the day I still meet my desired calorie intake, desired protein intake and desired fat intake.

    I don't care much for 'dieting', I just simply add a few numbers together, know what my requirements are, eat it if it fits into my calories and by the end of the day I'll have eaten 190g protein and 95g of fat. Still loosing weight and maintaining muscle mass.

    Also, I feel like I should say this.. fat burners don't actually 'burn fat', they help your body burn more calories which in turn should be easier for you to be in a deficit which will result in weight loss.

  6. #6
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    ryand,

    we can agree to disagree. Got enough enemies on this forum already. It's the beauty of democracy. Some people will agree with me some will agree with you. Again, we agree to disagree

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/i...ing-fat?page=2

    In terms of smoking canabis! Again we agree to disagree.

    Best Wishes

    tapmaster
    Last edited by tapmaster; 20-11-2012 at 09:08. Reason: changed my mind

  7. #7
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    You certainly have packed a lot into your 18 years ryand.
    A competitive body builder, trainer and nutritionalist.
    Taking into consideration that that the majority of CPW members are above the age of 30 Years old what makes you think that the eating and fat loss plan of an 18 year old is relevant? Your metabolism hasn't even thought about slowing down just yet so advising we eat pizza and ice cream for Breakfast isn't wise.
    Hilly

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    Hi again Hilly, you love to nit-pick my posts, don't you? :-)

    Let me just scan my posts.. nope, can't see where I've said I'm a nutritionist. As for a trainer, yes - but only as a hobby. I help host a class in my local gym for bodybuilders, strength training and weight loss with the supervision of a personal trainer, could call me a part-time unpaid apprentice. I study nutritional science and bodybuilding as a hobby, so I know a bit about it. Since you obviously know more than me, how long have you studied, if you don't mind me asking?

    Also, where have I posted up a 'fat-loss' plan for a 18 year old? Infact, where have I posted any sort of plan atall? I've posted a proven formula which will give you results that studies will agree is the healthy way of doing whatever plan you're on. This formula works for all ages.

    My metabolism "hasn't even thought about slowing down yet"? You are right to a certain extent but people at the age of 18 have to focus more on their diet than those younger, you see theres a reason why obesity is soo high in teenagers. Not watching what they put in their mouth. If I could stuff my face with pizzas, ice cream etc all day without a care in the world, what would happen? Tremendous fat gain - instead, as I watch what I put in my mouth and have the basic mentality to add a few numbers up (calories, fat, protein and carbs to meet my personal desired intake), I'm not overweight and am progressively gaining muscle with the absolute minimal fat gain. Its about tracking macronutrients that total up to calories, then for health, ensuring you get enough of your micronutrients.

    Here is a guy called Jason, I think he done some competitive bodybuilding in his time.. got obese and is now starting it all over again. He has pizza and ice cream every day and hes around the age of 35-40. Take a look at his YouTube channel and watch his progress as he eats pizza, ice cream and other 'junk food' in the videos, you might just learn something :-) - Nutrition Information - YouTube [edit: I've linked you directly to his nutrition videos, so you don't get lost or confused! :-)]

    I done teenage competitive bodybuilding two years ago and before that, IAWA All-Round Weight Lifting and got the chance to compete in a championship, focusing on strength lifts. Now I'm a bit more relaxed and do it merely as a hobby.

    So yes, you're right I suppose - I have done a bit in my 18 years. :-)


    Tapmaster,
    I suppose you can disagree if you like, it doesn't change the facts though pal. If you're interested, you can find everything I've said to be proven all over Google. I suggest you try nutrition forums or bodybuilding forums that may provide links to studies.

    However, as for what you personally do, regardless of your reasons - if it works for you, whats wrong with it? I just have a bit more attention to detail, thats all. Each to their own mate.
    Last edited by ryand; 21-11-2012 at 09:06.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryand View Post

    Calculating your caloric needs

    There are several methods on how to do this, I'll state them below. This is the first step you take in your journey to changing your body and one of the most important.

    1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
    MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
    WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

    2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
    MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
    WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

    3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

    These formulas will give you a spit-out number and in almost all cases will not be 100% accurate, so you'll have to experiment a bit. If you gain 1lb per week, lower your calories by 100 until you gain nothing and stay at the same weight. This is called your Total Energy Expenditure (TEE).

    Now you implement your body goal. If you want to build muscle then you need to start a caloric surplus, this means going over the calories you need to maintain weight by around 10-20%. You will gain a bit of fat, but if you're lifting heavy and regulary you will gain muscle aswell. I recommend you gain only 1lb per week.

    If you want to lose fat, then I'd go with losing only 1lb per week by subtracting 10-20% from your TEE. You can push this to 2lb per week, its your preference - the higher amount of weight you lose per week will result in more muscle mass loss and muscle is harder to gain back.


    Macronutrient Requirements

    This is your protein, carbohydrates and fats.

    1g of protein per lb of total bodyweight.
    .5g of fat per lb of total bodyweight.
    You do not need a set amount of carbohydrates as they are not a necessary macronutrient.

    For example, if a 225lb man required 3,000 calories to cut bodyfat, his intake per day would be the following:

    Protein: 225g - 900 calories
    Fat: 113g fat - 1,017 calories

    This means he has 1,083 calories remaining to play with (eat anything he wants) to make up the rest of the calories to 3,000 and meet his goal of losing weight. These calories can come from any combination of protein, fats or carbohydrates.

    1g of protein - 4 calories
    1g of carbohydrates - 4 calories
    1g of fat - 9 calories


    What now?
    Do I need a Master's degree in mathematics to work all this out?

    Absolutely, beasting yourself is the easy part!

  10. #10
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    Okay, let me show you..

    Presume I'm 200 lbs, 18 years old and 6 ft. I'm going to use the Mifflin-St Jeor formula.

    9.99 x 90kg = 899.
    6.25 x 182 = 1137.
    4.92 x 18 = 88
    899 + 1137 - 88 + 5 = 1953

    1953 would be an estimate of calories I'd have to consume to be around my TDEE. I would try that out for a week, check my weight is the same as before I started, if it is - its correct, if it isn't I'd adjust the calories by 100 here and there until it stays.

    Then we read on and apply our goals to the diet as needed, so for fat loss we'd subtract 20%, for weight gain we'd add 20%.

    So, for the sake of showing the simplicity, we'll say I want to lose weight and the spit-out number was inaccurate, I had to add 300 calories to maintain (so that takes me to 2253).. so I subtract 20% which gives me 1802 calories to successfully lose weight.

    To maintain muscle I'd ensure I follow the macronutrient intake, which for a 200lb man would be:

    Protein - 200g (as 1g of protein contains 4 calories, in 200g protein there would be 800 calories)
    Fat - 100g (as 1g of fat contains 9 calories, in 100g fat there would be 900 calories)

    So far we have eaten 1700 calories, so I need to get another 102.. feel free to have a chocolate bar or something.

    This is basic maths.

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