How to get started?

[Mattsmith1990]

Well basically I am trying to pick a career path to go down, I am currently in security (static with the odd even/door thrown in)
And this is something which has always interested me with my uncle doing it for the GMP since I was a little boy, I attempted to join the army as a dog handler when I was 16 but ended up getting knocked back due to a medical problem. And well due to the medical problem I am pretty sure I won't be joining any of the public services soon.
So why not do it privately?

Well I am looking into a GSD at the moment, I'm leaning towards a German Shep at the moment since it is a dog I am familiar with due to my upbringing.
There are a few things I want to know though.
How to pick a dog? I read one of the topics on an earlier page, and there were vast amounts of suggestions but I am planning to get a dog at its earliest age in which I can (I believe that to be 6 weeks?)
What should I be looking for?

Also if anyone can recommend a breeder since I want my dog to have good genes instead of just getting the cheapest available. (Preferably in the NW.)

Also what would the correct age be for me using the dog on jobs. Obviously I don't want to be taking it out too young. Or is there not a correct age, would it just be as soon as it is trained?

Recommendations on a trainer? Preferably in the northwest. Please don't turn this into a huge debate please.

My final question is regarding the dog as a pet aswell. What are your views on this. I have heard of trainers using there dogs strictly as working dogs, kept in an enclosure, ect.
And I have also heard of some who have it is the family pet aswell.


Sorry for all the questions, but your answers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks matt.

[HindebergK9]

Howdy Matt.

I'll give you my opinion on a few of those questions;

With regards the age you can get the dog at I believe it is illeagal in your country to seperate a pup under 8 weeks from it's mother. (I'm not 100% and happy to be corrected) I would prefer to get a dog between 6-7 weeks to start little things with the pup.

As for the age of a working security dog, it depends some what on the individual dog and training methods but I would say 18 months for a female, 24 months for a male. I would stress it depends on the dog.

With regards the keeping of a working security dog I am aware that many people will argue that it is stupid to keep such a dog in a home/family environment. My opinion is that dogs that have protected flocks from poachers/wolves and bears lived with and protected the family for thousands of years. Everyone in the household must respect that it is a working dog and not spoil it. When visitors come I would not allow them interact with the dog. There is more to this subject.

How to pick a good dog? That's a tough one. See the pups parents. Make sure the breeder is working them. Question why he/she is breeding them. Is he/she keeping one back? Do you trust him/her.

I can't suggest a trainer but I'll recomend a breeder for you via PM.

[mark950]

Hi Matt, I agree with hinderbergK9, it depend on you having male or female I may suggest you get a female because they mature earlier and are very protective of handler.

Coming into this Profession is not easy and can be very expensive to start of with if you want to do it right, it 24/7 365 days a year with your dog and can be heartbreaking and emotional as well, Always remember that you are a K-9 team working together you are both Working together to learn and understand each other most all you must have patience give quality time to training and be prepared to learn and trust each other, Their are a lot of things you will need to learn and on this forum their will be people who will help you if you want help then PM and I try and help you Mark950

[jb83]

Hindebergk9 and mark950 has given you good advice.

I might also suggest once you have done your training to get a trained security dog to get you started, from there once you know what you like/want you can get a pup and train it up. If your trainer is any good he can suggest a reputable breeder, maybe even will be able to source a working dog for you. Train regular and always strive to better yourself and your dog.

As mark950 says it def isn't cheap to get started, but it needn't be extortionate either! Spend time looking for good kit for low prices, but don't skimp on quality. Car, I bought an ex police dog van from ebay, £2.5k straight from a Sleaford police handler, does the job perfectly. Uniform, you can find on ebay for cheap enough. Look at http://www.mpctc.eu/shop/index.php?r...tegory&path=35 I just ordered some tshirts from there and am looking forward to recieving them. Why pay money for uniform from people not in the industry? These guys are and know what handlers want. Kit, try johnhumphris.

Most of all don't give up and good luck!

[LC-K9]

Hey up Matt
First off, good luck in getting sorted.

Loads of good advice and an excellent one from JB regarding getting a trained or even part trained dog to get you started.

If you're not sure of what to look for, take someone with you who has experience - it wil save time, money and heartbreak in the future.

Kit, well you have a couple of links already and jon humphris kit is excellent.

When you get a trainer - check with a few people and also their experience. May be worth pm'ing a few people on here - you'll be able to see by their profile. If they don't train, they may be able to recommend someone who can.

In regards to age for working your dog - please don't be tempted to use it too early - i was unfortunate that i had to work my boy at a young age but i was lucky that he was resilient enough for it not to affect him. Also i was very lucky as my employer at the time allowed for this when he posted me on a site, which was a tremendous help (most people would just have flung us out on any area which could have proved disasterous).

[Mattsmith1990]

Thanks for all the advice.
Well im moving house in the next week or two, so I will be hoping to get my dog sometime after/around march due to being absolutely skint

[Oddjob]

If your 'health problems' prevent you from joining any of the services, what makes you think that by going the private route, will allow you to reach the standards required to shine.
Not being rude or arrogant here, just wonder at your mind set on this.
As Standards or the lack of them are killing the industry.
Sub standard training, sub standards guide lines, sub standard operators, even sub standard dogs.
Can you reach and uphold the standards required, the goverment agencies seem to dispute this fact I'm afraid.

[Mattsmith1990]

If your 'health problems' prevent you from joining any of the services, what makes you think that by going the private route, will allow you to reach the standards required to shine.
Not being rude or arrogant here, just wonder at your mind set on this.
As Standards or the lack of them are killing the industry.
Sub standard training, sub standards guide lines, sub standard operators, even sub standard dogs.
Can you reach and uphold the standards required, the goverment agencies seem to dispute this fact I'm afraid.

My health problem is a fracture in my wrist, It didnt hurt at all before i even knew about the fracture, i believe it wouldnt of caused me to perform any worse than without it within the armed forces.
It never healed after the operation which meant I still couldn't join.

And it still doesn't hurt now.

Good enough answer?

[Oddjob]

My health problem is a fracture in my wrist, It didnt hurt at all before i even knew about the fracture, i believe it wouldnt of caused me to perform any worse than without it within the armed forces.
It never healed after the operation which meant I still couldn't join.

And it still doesn't hurt now.

Good enough answer?

No its not good enough, if you must insist.

Whats good enough is,
as with 2 of my mates,
''my disabilities, are out wieghed by my intelligence, dilligence, quick wits, and determination, even half of me is worth twice of another man''.

one lad has one hand (ex RMP)
The other has one lung and asthma. (Martial Arts instructor)
Both determined and capable despite not coming up to government requirements.

You will succeed by dedication and that alone is the key.
Not coming from the services is a hurdle you will have to leap at every turn.
It is up to you, to prove to yourself and others that you are better, if not the best, that takes hard work and dedication.
PM some of the guys on here, as they will be the best source of a dog, and the best source of training.
If you want to be an also ran, fine you'll get some advise.
But if you want to be the best, the boys and girls on here will give you their all, be prepared to listen, and act upon the advise.
I think you'll make it, maybe not as quick as you want.
But if it was that easy who'd want it anyway.
This maxim applies to the SIA in my opinion.
Continued training and raising of standards is the key.
Its worth taking a week or two to read through all the K9 posts, it is a mine of information, and will give you a feel for the individuals who can, will and can't on here.
They've helped me no end in the past, and been generous with their time and efforts. They are not as mad as the medics, but equally as helpful.
Good luck.

[Mattsmith1990]

No its not good enough, if you must insist.

Whats good enough is,
as with 2 of my mates,
''my disabilities, are out wieghed by my intelligence, dilligence, quick wits, and determination, even half of me is worth twice of another man''.

one lad has one hand (ex RMP)
The other has one lung and asthma. (Martial Arts instructor)
Both determined and capable despite not coming up to government requirements.

You will succeed by dedication and that alone is the key.
Not coming from the services is a hurdle you will have to leap at every turn.
It is up to you, to prove to yourself and others that you are better, if not the best, that takes hard work and dedication.
PM some of the guys on here, as they will be the best source of a dog, and the best source of training.
If you want to be an also ran, fine you'll get some advise.
But if you want to be the best, the boys and girls on here will give you their all, be prepared to listen, and act upon the advise.
I think you'll make it, maybe not as quick as you want.
But if it was that easy who'd want it anyway.
This maxim applies to the SIA in my opinion.
Continued training and raising of standards is the key.
Its worth taking a week or two to read through all the K9 posts, it is a mine of information, and will give you a feel for the individuals who can, will and can't on here.
They've helped me no end in the past, and been generous with their time and efforts. They are not as mad as the medics, but equally as helpful.
Good luck.

I have already read ALL of the K9 posts here.
I don't see how my post wasn't good enough though, you said why wouldn't I be suitable for the job if I'm not suitable for the armed forces. I gave you an informative answer into why. And now you are bringing my determination into this, sorry but if you knew me personally you would not be bringing that into the debate, let alone even thinking about bringing it in.