Met Police officer shoots himself in the leg

Howardk said:
Whenever I read this first sentence all I can think of is the "Paul Blart, Mall Cop" movie. In theory it sounds good but per your further statement regarding "deranged school kids" well, I refer back to my original last post about the victim staring down a barrel. How is intel gonna help this poor person RIGHT NOW. It's not. An armed cop may, or may not but I bet the would be victim will take the 50/50 odds over zero chance.



What is the answer? Aiding/protecting the public is the officers primary goal. How is not being able to neutralize a threat, and more casualties going to look? In the aftermath the police are going to take it in the shorts by the public and many will demand change.




To me this is a cop-out (no pun intended). We cannot fear harder resolve from a criminal just because we adjust out tactics and training. Why even do the job then? Let the crims run amok so we don't offend them.
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Yes Howard, but we have been down this street a hundred times, with you and SCT, basically we get the message "More guns, less shootings"
Unfortunately no matter how many times you try to justify it you still have regular shooting sprees in the US where people die at the hands of some nutter and then they usually end up dying from self inflicted injuries. You've had about a further half dozen since we last debated this subject. We don't have the same problems as you, no matter what or where you've heard anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
We have armed police, they can and do respond to shootings on the comparatively rare occasions when we have them.
I am not talking about "Criminals", and I am not sure what you are talking about in relation to 'offending them' or people running 'amok'. What has this got to do with religious tolerance and extremism?
We were discussing Active Shooters and Terrorist attacks, and no matter what you think or say, intelligence and the Counter Terrorist Methods we use in the UK are successful. As Roger Dodge rightly said, there will always be the loner who slips under the radar, and any idiot with a gun and a little bit of fore thought can kill a lot of people very quickly, no matter how many armed cops you have, and then either kill himself or let the cops do it for him in a blaze of glory.
You can't prevent that with all the armed cops in the world, any more than we can.
Now I honestly don't have the time to get involved in another futile debate about 'Our methods are better than yours' or 'If everyone carried guns there would be no crime', I've heard it all before (its like groundhog day) it just isn't accurate or true in the UK, because you still have more shooting sprees in a year than we have ever had in this country since the English Civil war in 1642.
I realise that in the US a completely different set of circumstances exists than in the UK. You have millions of guns in circulation among criminals and 'law abiding citizens' as well as psychopaths, heck, its their right to bear arms. Perhaps if you came to terms with that you would have a better grasp of the situation over here.
 
Oasis said:
We were discussing Active Shooters and Terrorist attacks, and no matter what you think or say, intelligence and the Counter Terrorist Methods we use in the UK are successful. As Roger Dodge rightly said, there will always be the loner who slips under the radar, and any idiot with a gun and a little bit of fore thought can kill a lot of people very quickly, no matter how many armed cops you have, and then either kill himself or let the cops do it for him in a blaze of glory.
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Yes I know we were talking about active shooters and terrorist attacks. A terrorist with a bomb is unstoppable if he gets by all the intelligence and counter terrorist methods, we've all seen it. With any other weapon there's a chance to prevent further death and destruction. Aren't almost all active shooter situations committed by just one or two gunmen? They're all lone nutters for the most part...their actions anyway.

I guess it's all what you're used to, this gun thing. Maybe your citizens are safer with unarmed cops. Chances of a citizen getting shot accidentally by the police are much greater as opposed to the lone nutter or terrorist if this thread has any indication of the competency of UK police and firearms.

I can grasp the situation over there regarding firearms....and knives, and baseball bats, and glass cups in a pub, and....whatever else needs to be banned as a potential offensive weapon. I guess that the incidents of crazies killing lots of folks isn't severe enough to change the status quo. My last post on the subject. It is what it is.
 
rhea said:
An interesting report from NBC news regarding the Police response when confronting the Boston Bombers....Kinda of lucky they were not in a busy shopping Mall!

"the resulting firefight exposed a sobering truth about law enforcement. Sometimes too many guns and officers are worse than too few."

Too Many Guns: How Shootout With Bombing Suspects Spiraled into Chaos - NBC News
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I do not know the story nor did I click on the link as the quote says it all. That being Too Guns & Officers are worse that too few, sounds like something someone would say in the wake of a traggric event where many injuries and property occured with the close threat to things getting worse before they get better with all sorts of responders from various agencies & departments.

In hind-sight when things are all over and everyone is safe away from what ever the threat was that caused it, in many folks eyes everything is too much, whilst everything else is too little, at the same time it was too far away but it was too close as well. Meaning everyone not qualified to wipe their own ass can always do so much better.

Funny how the media never mentions the massive spike in donations shortly after tragic events are stopped, I would find the news and media more appealing if they had more stories about thanking those responders, but even though they do not cover that these responders wade through shit and back to do their jobs.

Kind of funny how selfless service is always countered by cowards pointing everything they would have done another way.
 
Ivan67 said:
I do not know the story nor did I click on the link as the quote says it all. That being Too Guns & Officers are worse that too few, sounds like something someone would say in the wake of a traggric event where many injuries and property occured with the close threat to things getting worse before they get better with all sorts of responders from various agencies & departments.

In hind-sight when things are all over and everyone is safe away from what ever the threat was that caused it, in many folks eyes everything is too much, whilst everything else is too little, at the same time it was too far away but it was too close as well. Meaning everyone not qualified to wipe their own ass can always do so much better.

Funny how the media never mentions the massive spike in donations shortly after tragic events are stopped, I would find the news and media more appealing if they had more stories about thanking those responders, but even though they do not cover that these responders wade through shit and back to do their jobs.

Kind of funny how selfless service is always countered by cowards pointing everything they would have done another way.
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Ivan, only the left wing socialist liberal media is ever quoted here in connection with any shooting in the United States and it is always quoted by people with no direct experience.
 
I do not know of anyone legally in the County that does not own firearms (plural) and we have had only one murder in the last 21 years, and that was a 'domestic' with a bread knife. However, the illegal Mexicans often shoot each other, but no one cares much about that. They know better than to point a gun, or shoot at a local, as they might have an ack-se-dent in jail if they did. Most crime involving locals is domestic and most burglaries take place on the north side of the railroad tracks that split the town. Obviously it's OK to shoot burglars, even to the extent of following them home and shooting them there. Every time we have had UK visitors, they have bought centre fire ammo in the local super market, and had their photo taken in the store holding a machete in one hand and a box of .45ACP in the other. The last visitor had hers taken with a semi-auto 12 g and a box of 'double aut buck shells.
 
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