Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

5,000 illegal immigrants working as security guards in UK?

Steve M

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1
Likes
1
#1
News reports today say that around 5,000 illegal immigrants are working as security guards in the UK! Some are actually employed at airports and a few were found guarding the Prime Minister's car.

What is your comment on this situation?
 

Gerry

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1
Likes
0
#2
How can this be? there is a lack in security somewhere. if they are illegal, they should be checked up on! How did they get in the country? Security guards? I thought they had to pass strict tests!
 

David P

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1
Likes
0
#3
This is a fictional figure.

As they haven't done the full check to see if these people were entitled to work, they cannot know the number.

It is upto employers to check that a worker is entitled to work, the vetting agency don't have this remit. They were looking for criminal record etc.

How does someone's immigration status affect any risk or their ability to do the job?

So my comment is so what?
 

Pat R

New Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1
Likes
0
#4
They are slowly but surely creeping in on all our high profile people and buildings,and all we do is sit and let them,we are so apathetic,the world laughs at us.
 

silhouette

Full Registered User
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
24
Likes
4
#7
Getting back on track here, the poblem is that the SIA is absolute crap. Everybody in the security industry has experienced their incompetence and disregard for the individual. There are too many anecdotes of their fallbility and disorganisation to even begin to go into here.
I will however, make mention of an incident that is relevant to the post. When I was working as a security manager recently, a guard was having trouble getting his SIA license because of the punctuation on a document. The guard as Somalian, the document was an affadavit (oath) that he had no criminal record in his native Somalia. So, while the rest of us have to go through CRB checks... if you come from Somalia, the SIA will just take your word for it. Pathetic.
The SIA has not increased the level of professionalism in security at all. Have wages increased in security for basic guards now that they have the added expense of licensing and training? No!

Have the SIA actually cracked down on unlicensed CP operatives? No! They went along to an AGM and big timed it so they could tick a box and pretend that they were enforcing licensing.

The SIA are a waste of time and money, the industry was better off without them (financially as well as morally)

I actually believe that 5000 illegals may be a conservative figure. Seeing as the government doesnt even know how many illegals there are in the country, who can say?
 

rupert

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
2,499
Likes
810
#8
One of my colleagues, a young guy from Poland had his application refured two days after the illegal imigrant story broke. Got his docs etc back in the post and a letter saying his CRB didn't check out, and what was in the envelope with his docs?? His CRB. And what was on it?? Nothing, squeaky clean, just like the rest of us. Funny how that happend just as the story broke dont you think?
 

rupert

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
2,499
Likes
810
#9
Ref one of the comments above. Yes, it is the employers responsability to check the employee has the entitlement to work in the UK i.e is legally here. and not the SIA, BUT........part of the process of getting licensed is having a CRB check done and sent to the SIA with your application. If these guys arenot legal then they can't have a CRB........so, its the SIA's duty to not give them a license.....and, without the license they can't work in security.......

I think the whole SIA think a a real gang fuc*. I like the idea that the industry, prticularly the higher risk/skill side is regulated and licensed with recognition for training etc. It gives those doing the job a tangible "qualification" and tightens up on the Walter Mitty's of this world. Buth the situation we have is all totally arse about face....
 

Marian

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
645
Likes
229
#10
How come SIA gave licenses to 5000 illegal imigrants, when at the same time they've been processing and double checking my national criminal record certificate, and whole of my door supervisor application for 9 months, from november 2004 to august 2005 LOL! ;)
I'm all scared when I think that in 2008 I'll have to renew it maybe I should apply now? ;)
 

kirk

Full Registered User
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
18
Likes
1
#11
This is a fictional figure.

As they haven't done the full check to see if these people were entitled to work, they cannot know the number.

It is upto employers to check that a worker is entitled to work, the vetting agency don't have this remit. They were looking for criminal record etc.

How does someone's immigration status affect any risk or their ability to do the job?

So my comment is so what?
i guess i see what you mean but what if one of these operatives was al quaeda and they got a job as say the PMs body guard, then i think wed have a problem?
 

jcd

Full Registered User
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
69
Likes
2
#12
SO WHAT!!!! remember that when you cant get the job you applied for because the company took on one of thes people ,for half of what you would do the job for .
 

DC60

Full Registered User
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
37
Likes
20
#13
Ah the good old SIA, here is another snippet that will make you laugh or cry, no mention of this on their website,

More illegal immigrants slip through security net
Shadow home secretary attacks 'systematic incompetence' of Security Industry Authority
Another 1,350 illegal immigrants have slipped through vetting checks for sensitive security jobs, it was disclosed today.
The Security Industry Authority admitted it had blundered again after a further glaring loophole in procedures was spotted.
Thousands of three-year licences were issued to job applicants, even though their right to work was due to expire within months.
The oversight is likely to have misled businesses about the status of employees, allowing them to hold on to jobs by showing valid licences.
The shadow home secretary, Dominic Grieve, said the news was more evidence of "systematic incompetence" by the SIA and demanded answers from the home secretary, Jacqui Smith.
"Barely a year after they were hauled over the coals for granting 7,000 illegal immigrants security clearance - and trying to cover it up - we now learn that the government has granted more than a thousand more licences to individuals whose immigration status is about to expire," he said.
"When was the minister planning on telling us about this latest debacle? The former head of the SIA resigned over vetting failures last week. At what point will this home secretary start to take some responsibility for her department?
"This episode is yet another illustration of how this government cannot discharge its first duty - to protect the public."
The SIA's systems were to have been overhauled last year after it was disclosed that applicants' right to work was not being checked, with some illegal immigrants ending up working in Whitehall departments and even guarding the prime minister's car.
However, last week the authority's chief executive, Mike Wilson, was forced to quit after confirming that his own staff had not been properly vetted. The National Audit Office has also condemned the body for going £17m over budget.
Despite the supposed tightening of procedures, the new loophole was only identified by officials last month. Urgent letters were sent to 2,000 individuals, who no longer appeared to be allowed to work legally, according to an SIA spokeswoman.
"We recently identified - in partnership with the UK Border Authority - some 2,000 licences that are currently in force, where the right to work may have expired," she said. "We started appropriate procedures in relation to those individuals.
"Those who failed to respond with evidence of a continuing right to work - some 1,350 - have had their licences revoked and those details appear on the public Register of Licence Holders."
The spokeswoman continued: "We are continually improving our processes to ensure, as far as we reasonably can, that SIA licence holders are not illegal workers.
"We work closely with security companies to remind them of their legal obligations and best practice when establishing the rights of their potential employees to work. But employers should not accept the possession of an SIA licence as proof of this right."
Despite the errors, the authority rewarded its top managers with nearly £50,000 in bonus payments last year.

Source, http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/14/immigrationpolicy Friday November 14 2008 11.56 GMT
 

Des

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
162
Likes
40
#14
How does someone's immigration status affect any risk or their ability to do the job?

So my comment is so what?[/quote]

I hear what you say but the SIA is now a government department with rules and laws and as such they are there to be obeyed.

On a wider scale, what control would a government have over the amount of persons in the country if those persons could all carry on working after the end of their legitimate stay?
 

dannyboy489

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
363
Likes
118
#15
As much as I am a critic of the SIA - I've been shafted by them too on a number of occasions - it is not in their remit to check a persons right to work. That responsibility lies with us the employers. I fully agree that it SHOULD be part of their remit but would that only increase waiting times, delays and backlogs? I think so.

The SIA needs a wake up, we all know that. Hopefully this will act as another catalyst for that alarm call if or when it comes, but on this occasion - as much as it pains me to say it - this isn't their problem.

Did I really just say that? Shite!!!!
 

Des

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
162
Likes
40
#16
I'm sorry but this is another nail in the coffin of the SIA. They are trying to legitimise an Industry but are making very serious mistakes along the way. It is a very hard learning process for them and to be honest - this just should not happen to a government department.

Perhaps they should concentrate more on an 'modus operandi' and getting their own house in order rather than screwing every penny they can out of us, the workers!
 

dannyboy489

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
363
Likes
118
#18
I agree Des. As stated I am far from their biggest fan, I can see a complete systemic failure in the future if they don't get their house in order. Just think Child Support Agency. On this they can't be blamed as it isn't their job but it bloody well should be! THEN we can blame them.
 

jim5897

Full Registered User
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6
Likes
2
#19
well i waited 5 months to renew my licence reason i did not have address in right order then was told dont need that bit paper work then when i phoned i was told i needed in end i just sent a big huge brown envelope full every thing from discharge papers from army to rent books for every property i was in hell was born in scotland not some place in sand pile
 

ronald

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
1,091
Likes
479
#20
This is a fictional figure.

As they haven't done the full check to see if these people were entitled to work, they cannot know the number.

It is upto employers to check that a worker is entitled to work, the vetting agency don't have this remit. They were looking for criminal record etc.

How does someone's immigration status affect any risk or their ability to do the job?

So my comment is so what?
if they are illegal we don't know their status that means they could be criminals,or even being wanted in their country.second they take jobs that legal people living here:mad: should have:mad:
 
Top Bottom