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Associated Risks Group Live Firearms in the UK?

dannywayoflife

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#21
Yes you can still get the SGC lever release rifles but as I say there's still the legal issue of having to be a home office approved rifle club. And even a HO rifle club can't just have people turn up and shoot. For non members and non FAC holders to shoot at a HO club it has to be on a set date and the details of each person attending has to be sent to the Police to make sure that they are not prohibited form using firearms.
I don't see that using either plug fire or air soft type guns as being particularly useful. Yes you can drill fire and movement and muzzle disipline etc but as you say reaction to recoil and actually gaining experience of fireing a live firearm it won't do anything.
 

Worker

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#22
Your don't need a FAC to fire weapons at a gun club in the UK as far as I know. You also dont need to be part of a gun club to shoot outside with a rifle but you do need permision to shoot on that land by the land owner with safe back drops.

You cant get a FAC if you have a criminal record but you can still be a member if you have a pre exisisting membership and fire weapons at the gun club. Well I am guessing this a friend who used to be a part of a rifle club got into a fight and was not able to own his own rifle but continued to use the clubs rifles.
 
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dannywayoflife

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#23
No you don't need an FAC to shoot at a registered club but you can't just turn up and have a go. To go by the book I believe your supposed to go on a non shooting visit and be shown around then on your second visit you can if you are not prohibited from using firearms shoot under suprervision.
You are correct in that you can shoot on land that you have lawful authority to shoot on. However, in this case you cannot just set up your own range. It is conditioned on your personal FAC that you can zero and practice on land which you have permission on. But taking non FAC holders out with you is a grey area depending on the circumstances on which your permission exists.
As you can see non of these would allow a company to set up and run a firearms training course under the current laws.
 

Worker

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#24
The Probationary test and back ground checks, safely be able to operate a firearm range safety I don’t have much experience but I thought this was part of the course like normal when training in firearms? I don’t see it as a bad thing I find it reassuring A training provider could give theory on the probationary day and show drills, theory?
 

dannywayoflife

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#25
They would still have to be a HO approved club and being a TP wouldn't be GOOD REASON for this. It's a nice idea but to be honest with this country's firearms legislation I can't see any TP ever being able to LEGALLY offer a firearms package I'm mainland uk. Not totally up to speed on firearms law in NI I know there's is different to ours slightly (they can own hand guns and there is no shotgun certificate just a section 1FAC) but that's how I see it.
 

Carl Dowd

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#27
Here's some food for thought for all those contributing to this debate... good points BTW and some accurate (Excuse the pun) comments as always:

Read:

Section 11/4 of the Firearms Act.
Section 21 of the Firearms Act.

All or most clubs throughout the UK possess a 'Guest' policy in line with section 21.

A former advertiser on here 'Sure Shot' have been operating under these conditions since 2009.

trust that this helps...

CD
 

SCT

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#28
Throwing rounds down a range means nothing at all in terms of firearms competency. It is foolish and downright dangerous to allow someone to possess a firearm in the real world if that is all they have ever done.
 

nykm67

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#29
As having done my CP course with them(ARG),last year,i can tell you that,for a fact,the longs are .22 rim fire, and the pistols are regular air pistols. For the outdoor "HEPCO" phase only airsoft weapons are used.Would probably be better spending some cash to get some "real" 5.56/7.62 range time.
 

SCT

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#30
As having done my CP course with them(ARG),last year,i can tell you that,for a fact,the longs are .22 rim fire, and the pistols are regular air pistols. For the outdoor "HEPCO" phase only airsoft weapons are used.Would probably be better spending some cash to get some "real" 5.56/7.62 range time.
Selling 22LR and fcuking air pistols as firearms training is no different to me selling you a Ferrari and delivering a fcuking bicycle. Whichever way you look at it's bullcrap
 

deltasierra70

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#31
Selling 22LR and fcuking air pistols as firearms training is no different to me selling you a Ferrari and delivering a fcuking bicycle. Whichever way you look at it's bullcrap
Ah, memories... UK shooters are a breed apart, and have been since the '68 Act came out. There's always someone in a club, offering "Training" based on their interpretation of said Act, and what they think the local Chief Constable might allow. Training with one weapon, to learn how to use another, is aptly described above by SCT!
 

deltasierra70

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#32
Brit Shooters are their own worst enemy, always being secretive about their hobby, as if they belonged to a masturbating club.
It's legal to own, keep and use certain firearms in the UK, if you comply with the 68 Firearms Act as Amended. Local Chief Officer's Policies are usually some Constable's interpretation to placate their boss. Read the Piggin' current edition of the Act, get a copy of the HO's current recommendations and have a copy ready when the FAO turns up at your house. "My boss likes this or that or the other" is not the law. Show him your copy of the Act and ask where to find in it what he's talking about. Always ALWAYS ask for more weapons than you want/need. Never ask for just one .22 rifle, or only one .762 as there are different types of competitions in every calibre, as it is simpler to get a 'Variation' on your ticket that get a new one. If your Club doesn't shoot what you want, join another Club that does, but keep up membership in both.
I sometimes, like now, miss battling with Chief Officers around the UK on behalf of the UKPSA members. Glamorgan took a while to get in order, while Gwent were basically "Anything for a quiet life." I would call and ask if the FO was in, and if he was, drive over and walk into his office and put the variation form and my 'ticket' on his desk. In the early days of living in Gwent I wrote half a page in Guns Review on how wonderful and courteous the staff were at Police HQ, and how intelligently they processed applications. Whereas Bridgend were, much of the time, ill informed pricks, always quoting Chief Officers' Policies.
Must stop, getting all emotional reliving bits of the past. Both the Practical Pistol hooters, and the Long Range Pistols Shooters stood up for what the Act allowed, whereas the .22 and .38 25 metre shooters most times did whatever they were told.
Need to go and shoot a few rounds in the field behind the office...
 

deltasierra70

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#35
Thanks a lot, another walk down memory bloody lane.
I still don't understand how, or why most UK shooters hung their heads in shame after Dunblane. They should have risen up and demanded an Inquiry into why, when told by the Gun Clubs who had kicked him out, the local plod did nothing about taking his ticket and weapons off him. But no, all shooters hang head in shame, take the blame for one arsehole, and let Parliament, with the help of the tabloids, and the TV 'news' screw you once more. 99.99% of UK gun owners were voters, how many called or wrote to their local MP? We were already living in the US when Dunblane happened, I called, maybe 25 people, including 3 MP's and no one felt they could say or do anything. MP's were polled on how many had been contacted by constituents asking that no changes in the Act be made. Only 3 had. The one from Bournemouth even had someone from Savannah GA call and blag him. He told me that it was not advisable to "Piss into the wind on this one!" Not one of the members of clubs I belonged to, there or on Cardiff, did anything. They just wanted me to give them a good price on their guns...
WELCOME TO THE UK, WHERE ONLY THE POLICE AND CRIMINALS HAVE HANDGUNS, and shooters are gutless wankers.
 

Customloads

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#36
It is because to us Brits the gun is a guilty pleasure. Not a right. Yes we feel guilty about gun crime, despite the intuition that tells us gun education makes more sense than gun fear.
 

SCT

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#37
It is because to us Brits the gun is a guilty pleasure. Not a right. Yes we feel guilty about gun crime, despite the intuition that tells us gun education makes more sense than gun fear.
I'm a Brit and I don't feel guilty about shit :)
 

deltasierra70

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#38
I'm a Brit and I don't feel guilty about shit :)
AMEN to that!
GUILT RULES KO!
I have to be honest and say, I had pretty much given up on trying to help UK Shooters, well before we moved here, which was one of those unplanned moves that seemed to be for the best. Yes, The Land of Opportunity but only if you'll take big risks. And yes, I was glad to be out of there before Dunblane happened. Plus, I bought a couple of guns, before the Buy Back happened, at a reasonable price. One had been a Model 27 with 3.5" barrel that I could group 10 shots into the inner box on a Figure 11 at 100 metres. I had sold it to him before coming here. I bought that, and another that had been his. He "Posted" them to me using his local Post Office, put in my Mail Box outside my house 2 weeks later. I'm going to miss living in Georgia... Now back to work.
 

Customloads

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#39
I wasn't talking about me, or even us!

But the British as a herd. The man says give up our arms, so we do. We being not I or ye, but we.
 
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