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Can A security guard stop and search ur bags if?

Killy

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#42
Usual caveat to start. No longer in, this is not legal advice set in stone, I was not there so don't know full circs. But,
The Police have the the power to stop and search in Public. Store detectives may "ask' if they can search through bags. Note I say bags, they may not search a person(unless as a condition of entry ie into a football match/concert etc.) You would be amazed at how many people consent to being searched, without realizing that they could tell them no. Store security may also only "detain" ie use their any person powers if the offence has been witnessed. That means if they have definitely seen someone dishonestly obtain(steal), by secreting things in coat pockets etc and then go past the final point of payment. Then they may go hands on so to speak. It has been awhile and I may be a bit rusty. Guys still in will be more upto date. Hope your mum's ok. This must be some backwood store where the store security, who are normally very good as they deal with the same thing a dozen times a day, have not heard of the basics.
 

Killy

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#43
Note to self

I am new to this forum marlarky. Have just seen the dozen or so previous replies, must remember to read them first before replying. Then there is the one post wonder phenomenon. Not seen that before and will have to watch for that. I live and learn.
 

beastie

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#44
Can I just say, that if your Mum was stopped by 2 male guards then she has the right to refuse a search on the grounds that it could be seen as harasment. On the other hand, if she was searched by 2 female officers, then that was the correct procedure. This can be found in the Security Manual Handbook. The manual states that searches must be carried out in private and with witnesses for each party. Should there be a problem, then the Police should be brought in. I'm not saying your Mum is a shoplifter, but she does have rights and the right to refuse a search will result in the Police being called. Let them know that they were wrong and ask the question if they were trained in the art of searching and are they SIA licenced.
Beastie
 

ozblu3

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#45
Sorry to hear about this incident, i can only imagine the huge upset caused to your mother by this improper security guard. However, i do know that it's the guard's discretion as to who he stops.. but a old lady with carrier bags certianly doesn't fit the bill (although it has been known before for old ladys to thief). I think he was acting like an idiot really.. did he take out every item from her bag and check it from the reciept?
#
Were there a security malpractice body i'd help you, but alas there isn't. Store manager and company operations director are your best bet.. make sure you tell them your mother is an old frail lady who was caused huge embarassment by the security guard. and offer a point as to employ better trained securityy guards.. and make sure your mother never goes there again, but instead to a local rival.

this is purely out of poor training.. i can say that this sort of practice isn't widespread, and only occurs out of poor training..
 

nozzer

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#46
Sorry to hear about this incident, i can only imagine the huge upset caused to your mother by this improper security guard. However, i do know that it's the guard's discretion as to who he stops.. but a old lady with carrier bags certianly doesn't fit the bill (although it has been known before for old ladys to thief). I think he was acting like an idiot really.. did he take out every item from her bag and check it from the reciept?
#
Were there a security malpractice body i'd help you, but alas there isn't. Store manager and company operations director are your best bet.. make sure you tell them your mother is an old frail lady who was caused huge embarassment by the security guard. and offer a point as to employ better trained securityy guards.. and make sure your mother never goes there again, but instead to a local rival.

this is purely out of poor training.. i can say that this sort of practice isn't widespread, and only occurs out of poor training..
Why not just hunt the perpetrators down and make them beg for there lives?
Surely pain would sort this out.
 
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#47
Can I just say, that if your Mum was stopped by 2 male guards then she has the right to refuse a search on the grounds that it could be seen as harasment. On the other hand, if she was searched by 2 female officers, then that was the correct procedure. This can be found in the Security Manual Handbook. The manual states that searches must be carried out in private and with witnesses for each party. Should there be a problem, then the Police should be brought in. I'm not saying your Mum is a shoplifter, but she does have rights and the right to refuse a search will result in the Police being called. Let them know that they were wrong and ask the question if they were trained in the art of searching and are they SIA licenced.
Beastie

You are very correct. I agree of this. People have human rights. and the security have a rules and regulations about this situation.


Security Consultant Security Officer Security Guard
 

SCT

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#48
You are very correct. I agree of this. People have human rights. and the security have a rules and regulations about this situation.


Security Consultant Security Officer Security Guard


This is an interesting statement. Your first post, you don't post an introduction and don't put any information on your profile and, you who are in the US (allegedly), become an authority on what is and is not legal here in the UK. Except you haven't said anything have you?

I am getting a little pissed off at people who do not contribute anything to this forum
 

mahon84

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#49
The police and customs are the only people within the UK that can carry out a stop and search, however any private security in the UK can carry out a stop and search check on any adult person as long as they have explained why they are carrying out the search and they obtain the persons consent, also they must hold a search awareness certificate. If the person refuses the search then the guard has no right to perform the search and can only detain the person until the police arrive to deal with the situation.

I have read a few replies stating that it should of been two female guards carrying out the search, this is not true, the laws of searching in the UK only state that the guard performing the search has to be the same sex when carrying out a body search, a male guard can carry a search on any belongings of a female, just not carry out a body search.

As for privacy, it is in the guards best interest to save embarrassment to the person but they do not have to perform the search in private unless they are asked to do so by the person they are searching.

There is a lot more rules to this topic but these are the basics that apply to this particular situation.
 

littlewoman

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#50
The police and customs are the only people within the UK that can carry out a stop and search, however any private security in the UK can carry out a stop and search check on any adult person as long as they have explained why they are carrying out the search and they obtain the persons consent, also they must hold a search awareness certificate. If the person refuses the search then the guard has no right to perform the search and can only detain the person until the police arrive to deal with the situation.
You don't have to explain why you want to search someone but it is often useful to obtain consent. What on earth is a search awareness certificate? Never heard of one, certainly don't have one and have been searching for years. Anyone can search anyone with their consent, it is however good practice to have same gender searches for pat down searches and for bag searches. Not having a same gender person to search may be seen a discrimination.
You can not detain someone who refuses a search unless you know that they have committed an indictable offence, and then its an arrest.
Also, you talk about rules. There may be guidelines and the SIA recommended way of doing things, but I can't think of any actual rules as private security has no powers we are only ever searching with consent.
 
B

bornsloppy

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#51
littlewoman, you HAVE to obtain consent. No security officer has the right to search anyone.
 

littlewoman

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#52
littlewoman, you HAVE to obtain consent. No security officer has the right to search anyone.
Sorry, my first line was ambiguous in the way it was written. I can't edit it as I'm not getting an edit button but it would be better to write as follows "You don't have to explain why you want to search someone but it is often useful in order to obtain consent. " I was meaning that is was useful to explain, not useful to obtain consent. As you said consent is needed.
 

mahon84

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#53
Littlewoman,
its is best that you explain the reason for your search, the sia aren't the only people who put down rules for security search's, if you work in the likes of harbours, ports or airports the rules on searching are controlled by the International Ship and Port Facility Security Code or the Transport Security & Contingencies Directorate (TRANSEC) not the sia, the sia are only guide lines it all depends where you work. All of our guards in retail must explain why they are carrying out the search, if you have been working doing search's for years then you would know what a search awareness course is.
 
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mahon84

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#54
You can not detain someone who refuses a search unless you know that they have committed an indictable offence, and then its an arrest.

I was not stating that you can detain someone who refuses a search like a search that is carried out on entrance to a building or a restricted area, i was talking about searching in a retail environment if you are next to 100% sure that someone has committed theft, then you can get them to stay to the police arrive to deal with them. that is why i stated at the bottom of my post that the information i provided was the basics for that particular situation.
 

littlewoman

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#55
I realise that ports have very different rules, the point I was making is that the SIA courses give guidelines about how searches are conducted, they do not make rules that have to be abided by.
I covered searching on my SIA courses, but I am not aware of any separate "search awareness course". I don't know anyone who has done any sort of search awareness course other than what is covered on the SIA course. It certainly isn't a legal requirement to have such a course to search someone (except possibly in areas such as ports as they have very different rules), it may perhaps be something a company requires someone to have if they are in-house and haven't done SIA training, or something some companies want because they search people differently than is shown on SIA courses.
 

mahon84

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#56
Its a course that I would recommend should become compulsory for all security who are performing body search's and security search's, the amount of search's I've seen being done by guards that have no idea what they're doing because they are only showin the basics by the sia.
 

specialistk9

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#57
unfortunately retail security can stop and search on the shop premises, i.e. before you leave the store/supermarket, they cannot stop you outside the store doors unless they have actual evidence you removed something from the store/supermarket without paying, hence why they have cctv on every aisle in the store.
 

slayer007

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#58
When I was on the shop floor many years ago in uniform and then plained clothed the script went like this;

'under no circumstances stop anyone unless you are 110% accurate that they have got an unpaid item and that you have had eyes on them for 110% of the time from them conceiling the item to them passing the last point of sale and intending to leave the store!'

All because if a case happened similar to yours, the guard/detective could end up in a litigation case of wrongful arrest, Assault, public humiliation etc.

If it was someone else giving you the tip off and not yourself that had seen the apparent theft then you should ask the accusing witness to accompany you to make the stop and also get them to make a statement. If they refuse and dont want to be a part of it then you should leave it alone and just keep eyes on the suspect and pass their details on the NET once they leave the store.

Also following on from above, when you do stop someone you are meant to follow a procedure of introduction telling the suspected of who you are and why you have stopped them, then, you should ask them to accompany you to an office at the back of the store, out of the way of public and unwanted viewing. You should also ask for the manager or senior supervisor etc etc of the store to attend the questioning/interview and always have a witness, even more so if you are male and they are female or vice versa.

They should tell them that you are wanting to search their bags and belongings and do they have any problems with this if they do then inform them that the police will be called to legally carry out a forced search. If they accept your request then make sure again everything is logged and witnessed. Also if you can, get the suspect to open and rmove the contents of the bags especially if it is personal belongings.

Looking at what you have said, they look like they have broken several rules, which if they have then it should all be caught on the CCTV by the entry/exit point where your mother was stopped. Also the store have 'if what you say is accurate' admitted liability by saying it should never of happened, however unless you have that in writing it means squat, as it is just hear say and they would deny saying it at a later date.
You may have a case you may not, it all depends on the accuracy and intricacy of your statement and the CCTV!


The best thing to do would write down everything said between yourselves and the store/security; times, dates, staff descriptions etc and approach the citizens advice bureau.

Incidentally before you left did you make a compaint to management or take any names or badge numbers etc etc.


A stab in the dark but is this store T"S"O by any chance? Just wondered as they have a history of this.


Hoped this helped..
 
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#59
i have worked retail for 9 years and the way we used to stop people was to carry a security tag within our trouser pocket and walk out at the same time of the person we suspect to stop so we could search them i and 50% of the time some one would have a stolen item on them and every security guard has the right to stop on the street only if 110% sure they got some stolen item but we trained if in doubt let them go or just call in the police for a stop and search i love retail security get so much action in south wales
 

slayer007

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#60
To do this is delving on the realms of perverting the course of justice almost the same as planting something on the suspect.

I have seen occurances similar to this where the security staff and their company end up in deep shit with the courts. At the end of the day a store has got a bracket of acceptable loss and insurance, if you arent 110% sure and havent had eyes on for 110% of the time then leave it alone. If they are theiving then they will come back for more at some other point, just be patient and log their details and pass them on. Its not worth chancing your lively hood just for the sake of saving a couple of quid!


Most of the time security tend to get a touch blinkered due to thrill of the chase, bordem, naivity or just sheer bad advice & training on their employers part.

Not worth the hassle as your employer will single you out and leave you standing alone when litigation comes a knocking, as their reputation, contract with the store and wider business intersts are on the line.


'I didnt teach him/her to do or say that, no your honour that is not in our modus operandi!!!
 
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