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Door staff receive Police commendation

wingnut

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#1
STOLEN FROM ANOTHER SITE but highlights there are some professional people out there.


25/06/2010 - Bar doormen commended for helping injured copper
Source: News Shopper

Two door supervisors from Bexley who went to the aid of an injured copper are to get a police commendation.

Rob Smith and Mitch Goodwin were on duty at Bar Lorca in Bexley Village High Street, and had alerted police to a man they had thrown out of the bar for approaching women customers and offering to share drugs with them.

When John Horton, then a PC with the neighbourhood policing team, told the man he would be searched under the Misuse of Drugs Act, he threw a package of cannabis on the ground and ran.

PC Horton ran after him and tried to detain him, but during the violent struggle, PC Horton was bitten on the leg.

Mr Smith and Mr Goodwin saw the fight and went to the officer’s assistance.

The man was arrested and later pleaded guilty to possession of cannabis, assaulting a police officer and threatening behaviour.

Chief inspector Steve Murrant has thanked the men personally and they will both receive borough police commander’s commendations.


Well done to those guys.
 

chrisviking87

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#2
Helped police loads of times, in worse situations than being bitten on the leg and never got a commendation....
 

chrisviking87

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#4
Bit of a silly response from "Colonel" - having the police work with a door team, is much easier than having them work against you. Helping them out where you can, helps in the long run if you or your door team ever needs a hand.

Stupid childish remarks like above, can make them feel a certain way, and maybe go out of their way to find you doing something wrong.

I wouldn't put myself in the firing line by working with such a person as Colonel, The Door staff and the Police are ultimately on the same side, there to provide safety and security to the staff, bar and general public. I can already tell that this Colonel is far from successful in the industry. Or is Northern Ireland so much different to England?

Well done to the door staff on their commendation
 

premier

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#5
Having worked on doors throughout the UK since before I care to remember and long before the SIA created themselves a niche money making racket, I am certain of a few things and I always advise young DS personnel that we train and / or recruit and that is
1) never work within your our town or city unless you are able to deal with drama from the doors whilst shopping with the family.
A dickhead you refuse or eject from a venue WILL bump into you at the supermarket.
2) never carry out your roll as a DS outside your venue or remit unless specifically ask to do so by a police officer.
I once went to the aid of an officer without being asked and was later referred to as a knuckle dragging Neanderthal by his sergeant A few years later said officer became heavily involved with venue licensing and renewal conditions, he came to one of our clubs to "tell" myself and my staff that we must go to the aid of the police, if we saw them in need of assistance!
I told him the only offer we would be making was to allow them to hide behind us "when they get scared" as we wouldn't want to be branded knuckle dragging Neanderthals. He left and we never spoke of it again.

Regards

premier
 

colonel45155

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#6
Bit of a silly response from "Colonel" - having the police work with a door team, is much easier than having them work against you. Helping them out where you can, helps in the long run if you or your door team ever needs a hand.

Stupid childish remarks like above, can make them feel a certain way, and maybe go out of their way to find you doing something wrong.

I wouldn't put myself in the firing line by working with such a person as Colonel,
Are you going to troll all my posts buddy? This is the second in a row. To answer your question I'm a Col in the girl guides. Sec is a small world, when I reply to something I say it from the heart and I mean what I say and I try to be as helpful as I can, sometimes it may come across wrong but its better said than not said, I call a spade a spade, I don't know you from Adam but I do wish you all the best.

I've worked with a lot of folk on here who will agree with me and to be honest in our game we need as many mates as we can get... I have no idea of your training but a DS should not leave the door, an example was last week, we had a new guy, just got his license for DS, he left the door to see to a fight up the street, he ended up getting my team running up to save him from a fight that was nothing to do with us or our venue and left our door wide open. I sacked him on the spot.
 
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chrisviking87

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#7
But everything isn't as Black and White as the course makes out. If there is a police officer who needs a hand, they would get it, having a good relationship with the police is very helpful, especially when working in hostile areas. I have left the door many times to help the police, as well as helping someone in danger, the management have been fine with us leaving and helping as having 10-20 guys beat one guy outside their bar isn't "good for business"

Everyone has a different view on things and they should do what they believe is best at the moment, I didn't appreciate your comments as it is not "set in stone" what to do and what not to do. If you was a customer at the bar, would you watch 20 guys beat the Sh** out of one guy? What about if the guy came out of your bar, is just out of "your area" and clearly gets attacked for no reason? I would personally try break the fight up and send them on their separate ways, Rules and rules, but watching him get beaten to a pulp, is not in my nature
 

colonel45155

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#8
If it's not your business it's not your business mate, please don't think I'm at you 'cos I'm not but believe me, in security the police are not your friends. I never meant to upset you but I'll repeat, the Police are not our friends, I can tell you storys about DS losing their license because of accepting a caution from the Police saying this will go away if you just sign.
 

colonel45155

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#9
A coupla days ago I had to renew my license. There's only two post offices in N.Ireland that can do the SIA license and I had to renew mine, I got the train to Londonderry so paid the £220 after making the account online with the SIA.. walked into a bar across the road and the bouncer was nearly 7ft tall, I looked up at him, I was a stranger in the city, I got talking to him, he was a great guy, I said I'll get a step ladder and headbut you in the kneecaps. The point being is that we are all the same buddy. He offered me a job and I offered him one right back, that's networking.
 

chrisviking87

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#10
You cant judge the 'Whole Police Force" on individual officers. I agree, the police should be much more friendly to DS's, if we are doing our job right, we have the same goal, which is keeping people safe. But I have had good and bad experiences with Police Officers.

I had a certain Police Officer who hated the Door Team I was HD of. He would sit outside the club, with his lights turned off waiting for something to happen, when it did, he was purely watching to see if any of the Door Staff were heavy handed or doing something he could pounce upon, he wasn't very smart, when he was there, everyone was informed, we would take extra precautions, leaving him with nothing he could try use against us.

On other occasions, I had a great relationship, the local Sergeant who patrolled the streets, groups of police would visit our club for the free coffee that our management had provided for them. They would stay, drink their coffee and chat to us. At anytime if we needed their assistance, they were clearly on our side, removed people talking sh** and trying to provoke us. They were definitely on our side, when a mass brawl kicked off, they came in guns blazing. They were helpful and friendly. So we cant judge them all, we should be on the same side, and again I do believe we are, but some of them, not so much.

I cant speak for the Police where you work or worked, but I would advise new door staff to try build a relationship with them, especially the Head Doorman, because they can help. But if you don't help them and have the attitude "its not my problem" you should expect the same from them
 

premier

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#13
You cant judge the 'Whole Police Force" on individual officers. I agree, the police should be much more friendly to DS's, if we are doing our job right, we have the same goal, which is keeping people safe. But I have had good and bad experiences with Police Officers.
Chris,

I am inclined to agree with Col,
I wouldn't go out of my way to help the police, based purely on personal experiences!
The police are NOT our friends, you mentioned one sitting without lights on waiting for you or your team to be caught out doing anything he could get on you, that goes for all of them...
The old phrase of how do you find a bent copper comes to mind, you call the station and wait for one to answer!

They will put you in the shit to give themselves a lift or be seen in a better light at every opportunity,
I won't speak to them under caution without my brief being present, regardless of what they want to talk about.

Regards

premier
 

colonel45155

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#14
They will put you in the shit to give themselves a lift or be seen in a better light at every opportunity,
I won't speak to them under caution without my brief being present, regardless of what they want to talk about.

Regards

premier
This is why I'm doing a law degree with the open university.
 
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chrisviking87

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#15
I understand Premier, everyone has their own opinions and their own experiences, I hated that police officer who sat outside waiting for us to do "something wrong" I ejected a 6 ft Traveller one night, I did all the right things "open palms, showing no aggression" etc etc, I removed him outside of the beer garden, he threatened to punch me, I laughed. He came back, I walked him out of the beer garden again, all whilst this police officer was sat 100 yards away watching.

The traveller then came back, as I kept him at arms length he threw a punch and caught me, I used "minimum force" but he got back way worse than what he gave, he ended up on the floor from my strike and I had my knee on his head.

The police officer ran over as soon as he saw me throw back, he restrained the guy and locked him up (obviously he assaulted me first)

Later the police officer came back, it was Mad Friday. He said to me "Can I have a word with you in Private?" I said No, I'm busy working. He insisted so I went to the office and told him he has five minutes to say what he needs to say.

He came with this big speech about "If I acted the way you did and threw such a punch, I would lose my job, you was out of order" etc etc

I told him, I calmly and safely removed the guy three times, I explained to him everything and that he won't be coming back and he is now barred and he needs to go elsewhere. The guy hit me first, clear as day and on camera, the law states a civilian can protect himself which I did. I also said, you sitting in your car and watching the situation escalate is not right, you are sat outside the venue for a reason, clearly you're assigned to the area, you are also on camera and you watched me calmly removed the guy three times, which he came back 50 yards to attacks me, three times.

The police officer had nothing to say, I told him to stay away we don't need his help, and that he is the person being un-professional

So I do understand that everyone experiences bad situations with the police, but I have definitely had more good experiences with them instead of bad.
 

chrisviking87

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#16
But the thing with a caution, never accept one, they will take your badge and you have accepted the charge, I have being through court cases because I wouldn't accept a caution, but was found innocent. Advice to new DS's would be to say nothing, accept nothing and never admit to striking or assaulting anyone because they can stiff you over if you do
 

colonel45155

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#17
But the thing with a caution, never accept one, they will take your badge and you have accepted the charge, I have being through court cases because I wouldn't accept a caution, but was found innocent. Advice to new DS's would be to say nothing, accept nothing and never admit to striking or assaulting anyone because they can stiff you over if you do
Accepting a caution is accepting guilt.
 

chrisviking87

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#19
I clearly put accepting a caution is accepting you're guilty, yet there seems to be a parrot in the room. Probably a very small and old parrot, but still a parrot. Were you not just talking about telling a "7 ft Bouncer I'll get a step ladder and head butt you in the knees" ?
 

colonel45155

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Probably a very small and old parrot, but still a parrot.
Well that escalated quickly. "Small and old" - I'll admit I'm neither but personal digs I've never witnessed on this forum before? Well done for being the first. (There's been a few debates and differences of opinion, it's kind of a professional courtesy, unwritten rule, but never digs).

When I said "Accepting a caution is accepting guilt" I was confirming your statement. Cautions have been discussed here many times and their affect on the SIA license.

The bouncer wasn't exactly 7ft and I'm not exactly the shortest but as I say, height should never matter - don't take everything said to heart. I'm 44yrs old, I'll expect a birthday card next year from you Mr D.
 
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