DS cracking RST!

[colonel45155]

I don't know if you can read or are just too ignorant to do so, but I'll say it again for your benefit.

I have always believed that RST is a CP task. I really cannot say it any simpler than that.

If you still fail to understand my point then I give up.



Sent from my iPhone using Close Protection World

You seem to be the only one with that opinion. Have a wee read through this thread and find someone who agrees with you mate. Thanks for calling me ignorant, I won't lower myself to respond to that, although my degree of literacy should not come into "what you've believed"

Good luck in CP, you're digging yourself a hole here, I suggest you retreat and regroup.

Col.

 

[rhea]

I have plenty of work thanks, I myself don't do RST work but I do do CP, I'm just making an observation on the industry and what I class as being CP roles, maybe I'm wrong but I do strongly believe its taking something away from the profession.

I was hoping someone could give a little advice on which direction I should be looking to land an RST around the Manchester area. Which companies hold contracts around there etc.

Didn't it work out for you?

I have worked for FGH in the past at various events and still do when I can fit it in.

Bloody typical of CP bods who can't find work taking the jobs of us poor lowly DS's. I do strongly believe its taking something away from the profession.

This is not first post I have commented on over peoples arrogance when it comes to work. Despite what you may believe people DO NOT owe you a living, you are nothing special, get over yourself ..............

Wise words indeed

 

[littlewoman]

I don't know if you can read or are just too ignorant to do so, but I'll say it again for your benefit.

I have always believed that RST is a CP task. I really cannot say it any simpler than that.

If you still fail to understand my point then I give up.



Sent from my iPhone using Close Protection World

You haven't explained why though. You haven't explained what skills you think it takes and why someone would only have those skills if they'd done a CP course.

 

[colonel45155]

Made a lot of friends here LJH1 haven't you.

 

[marshy41]

I aint gonna get into this to deep as to me its all about some piece of poxy plastic that says CP on it, all a load of balls if you ask me. Ive done Security guarding, RST and CP.

I will give a few examples of RST tasks that are around and that most on here know about or even work on.

One task is looking after a residence the team has zero to do with the principle and wife or siblings. They are there just to make sure the residence and the estates assets are secure and secured at all times. Monitoring CCTV, filling in patrol sheets etc etc. Now in no way is that classed as a "CP" role. its nothing more than a static/mobile security role.

Another one or two are ensuring nobody breaks into the residents of 2 separate clients, days and nights are just sat monitoring CCTV which over looks the only 2 entry/exits into the properties, both in London. Again you have nothing to do with the principle & wife on both. your job is just as mentioned above. Again that is not a CP role in anyway shape or form.

OK some RST positions do involve you driving the principle to and from locations within a team and attending functions and in some cases going overseas if they request it. yes this does require somebody who has had the correct background and training. Then the client/principle will know who they want for this type of RST.

So with all the posts above I would just say Ive worked with some right chisels who have been CP licensed and DS licensed , in a nutshell the card means jack, my own view is the individual, look at there experience, skill set and I think at interview once they are grilled on there CV they will be uncovered as a tool or not.

Hope that sheds more light on this debate.

 

[LJH1]

Well I can see I'm not going to win here so I will bow out and thank you all for your input.

I have taken some good points on board and hate to say but have probably had my opinion changed, which wouldn't have happened without this little debate.

Just to answer an earlier question I was looking for an RST a while ago as I needed something closer to home at the time, it all worked out in the end for the better.


Sent from my iPhone using Close Protection World

 

[colonel45155]

Don't take offence mate, you stated your opinion and stood by your guns and that's respectful. This world revolves around different views, can you imagine this forum if everyone agreed, every post would end in "yes"
At least you had the balls to get back and to put some closure on this.

Stay safe m8.



Col.

 

[daveidd2006]

Well, this is my opinion from my experience; clients are fouled mostly all the time. Does not even matter you have a licence( now is criminal offence not to have one) or not, back in the days there were no licences, me personally I learned a lot doing the job( being stabbed while on job only once but learned my lesson for a lifetime) the different courses and licences came just afterwards.


D

 

[colonel45155]

Well, this is my opinion from my experience; clients are fouled mostly all the time. Does not even matter you have a licence( now is criminal offence not to have one) or not, back in the days there were no licences, me personally I learned a lot doing the job( being stabbed while on job only once but learned my lesson for a lifetime) the different courses and licences came just afterwards.


D

How is that relevant to this thread?

 

[larpy]

Admirable of you LGH1 well played.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Close Protection World mobile app

 

[fbg]

And to answer your question ....DS as RST are cheaper than CPO

RST is paid one rate CPO are paid a different rate...

FBG

 

[colonel45155]

And to answer your question ....DS as RST are cheaper than CPO

RST is paid one rate CPO are paid a different rate...

FBG

The employer will always want the cheapest option, we always strive to up our game and get ahead of the competition. In a perfect world they would want the best but sadly that isn't the case. That's why G4s has a monopoly.

 

[littlewoman]

The employer will always want the cheapest option, we always strive to up our game and get ahead of the competition. In a perfect world they would want the best but sadly that isn't the case. That's why G4s has a monopoly.

I think G4S has a monopoly due to a more creative payment system.
That said in many aspects of security it is the explanation for certain companies getting contracts.
In the RST field, could it be that its better to pay for a top quality person that only has a DS licence than a poor quality person that happens to have a CPO licence? ie. you might get better value for your money that way.
There may also be a factor that if you employ people with a CP licence to do RST they may feel its beneath them and not perform as well or be constantly trying to get on the CP team. Whereas, if you employ a DS to do RST they are content in their work.

 

[fbg]

Very good points

 

[marshy41]

I think G4S has a monopoly due to a more creative payment system.
That said in many aspects of security it is the explanation for certain companies getting contracts.
In the RST field, could it be that its better to pay for a top quality person that only has a DS licence than a poor quality person that happens to have a CPO licence? ie. you might get better value for your money that way.
There may also be a factor that if you employ people with a CP licence to do RST they may feel its beneath them and not perform as well or be constantly trying to get on the CP team. Whereas, if you employ a DS to do RST they are content in their work.

These days its not difficult to get a CP licence as we all know, I think as I stated on my earlier post, if you are the one conducting the interviews and regardless what badge is held by those you interviewed you will gauge for yourself whether they are up to par or not. I have seen some complete walts CV's and they are quite comical to say the least.

If somebody has a good solid CP background and has been around sometime then why would they want to do an RST job, OK maybe they would have there own reasons, but most use RST as a stepping stone into CP via networking.

And I'd never think doing RST was beneath me neither should anyone else who holds a CP badge.

I think there are more companies who just want there people to hold a CP badge to conduct there RST tasks that they have, but they also want there people to have either police or military backgrounds.

I worked an RST and the guy who was employed in-house had been there 3 1/2 years when I was there, he had no SIA badge no police or military background but he knew everything about the entire estate all the Sop's and he was a cracking operator, he wouldn't be a TL due to his back ground etc.Which in my eyes was wrong. Personally he should have been the boss there as he was a top bloke, so it goes to show that having a DS,CP badge or being ex mil, police really doesn't mean that much.

In todays market we all get cloudy eyed and think that if we haven't got this or that then they will be poor or a jobs worth, it comes down to individuals and if they are suitable for the role and aren't a complete tool.

I am ex mil, have a CP badge have experience and yet 6 months at home earlier this year and I struggled to get a job. Yes I'm sure someone will say why, how. But that was just how it was. Happens sometimes to the best of us

 

[daveidd2006]

I worked, with both CP and DS on RST. Many CP ( ex-army and police) considered RST , somehow humiliating and the only thing they did was moaning constantly about the job same when doing surveillance( any job you do needs patience, self-control etc. not talking about surveillance). I wonder what job they did at all in the army or police – “I need the buzz†– many of them said. Well when was “buzz†in the job they had no idea how to deal with it. Just one example : the client suddenly decided that the next day flies out from UK, one of the CP( of course ex special forces to find out later he was not what he said he was) said: â€They should have told me a week agoâ€( we were living at the residence) – no comment.
One of the guys had a DS badge he was completely useless, not even bothered to learn what was asked from him as part of RST, but he wanted to do the CP course and have the badge like that would give him a free pass into this job.
Some of them came from other teams working they said for Saudi families etc. having some sort of a Star allure well one of these guys, when the “buzz†kicked in suddenly turned his back and ran about 20 meters in the opposite direction, he politely let me to deal with the “shit†– he was a “sound†guy.
I can tell only from my own experience and that unfortunately is not a fairy tale, the one who does the job matters, his character, willingness to learn, listen to those who have more experience and acknowledge that etc.etc living their egos apart and of course showing off has again no place in this job.
Unfortunately, the only thing matter is who you know and be willing to follow those who are blindly robbing the client.
Again in some of my jobs the client had no idea who worked for him, he paid the contractor who charged top money and hired some weed addicts ( it always make me smile no matter how bad I feel when once I passed a car with guys on protective surveillance I could smell the weed from 10 meters and could not see them in the car from the smoke – like in a bad movie)- no wonder he was robbed.

A nice week end for everybody, I better stop now, way too much bad things.

D

 

[marshy41]

I worked, with both CP and DS on RST. Many CP ( ex-army and police) considered RST , somehow humiliating and the only thing they did was moaning constantly about the job same when doing surveillance( any job you do needs patience, self-control etc. not talking about surveillance). I wonder what job they did at all in the army or police – “I need the buzz†– many of them said. Well when was “buzz†in the job they had no idea how to deal with it. Just one example : the client suddenly decided that the next day flies out from UK, one of the CP( of course ex special forces to find out later he was not what he said he was) said: â€They should have told me a week agoâ€( we were living at the residence) – no comment.
One of the guys had a DS badge he was completely useless, not even bothered to learn what was asked from him as part of RST, but he wanted to do the CP course and have the badge like that would give him a free pass into this job.
Some of them came from other teams working they said for Saudi families etc. having some sort of a Star allure well one of these guys, when the “buzz†kicked in suddenly turned his back and ran about 20 meters in the opposite direction, he politely let me to deal with the “shit†– he was a “sound†guy.
I can tell only from my own experience and that unfortunately is not a fairy tale, the one who does the job matters, his character, willingness to learn, listen to those who have more experience and acknowledge that etc.etc living their egos apart and of course showing off has again no place in this job.
Unfortunately, the only thing matter is who you know and be willing to follow those who are blindly robbing the client.
Again in some of my jobs the client had no idea who worked for him, he paid the contractor who charged top money and hired some weed addicts ( it always make me smile no matter how bad I feel when once I passed a car with guys on protective surveillance I could smell the weed from 10 meters and could not see them in the car from the smoke – like in a bad movie)- no wonder he was robbed.

A nice week end for everybody, I better stop now, way too much bad things.

D

have to agree there to your post, strange isn't it as those who moan and say as you put it want "a buzz" have more than likely do zero in the military / police and have utter dribble on there CV i.e. the walt syndrome.

It is very frustrating to think that with all the RST jobs running across britain many are full of such unprofessional morons. Just shows how tough it is for those of us who graft with the job in hand, yet struggle to get work in the UK due to many of these so called top operators, don't get me wrong there are thousands of top blokes working in these jobs to, and thousands who are not. I do not profess to be a top notch CP guy, but when I do a job I do it right and professional.

But as most of these posts show its a losing battle isn't, its been posted before on this very forum about this type of thing, I see no change what so ever in the near future if at all.

 

[lowesy1972]

I have met Great DS and some crap CP.. If it was my property and family I would look at the experience of the candidate not a plastic badge.
However I do believe that if they have a CP badge from a reputable company, then they are serious about their career and not just coasting..

 

[mmorg3053]

The usual idea of a Residential Security Team isn't just to provide "blokes" at a residence to provide a visible deterrent. There are certain responsibilities that an RST must carry out, usually as part of the bigger Close Protection Team. With the RST being part of the CPT, there needs to be constant interaction. In many cases, the RST is also maintaing an "Ops Room", relaying information to from the House Staff / TL / BG etc.

A DS course doesn't provide the sufficient training or knowledge that covers these aspects.

I have also been RST on a job, then I have had to go on the CPT due to circumstances of one of the team. I have also had to conduct recce reports, route recce's etc for the CPT's next serial. Again, do DS have the ability to do this and step up where needed? Short answer is NO.

Cutting back on CP licensed personnel can / will bite companies in the arse, should unforeseen circumstances happen. Do it properly from the start.

If DS want to progress in to CP, then go and get on a good CP course and get CP licensed. Then apply for as many RST jobs as possible and gain some experience and progress on to the CPT. Or, as in my circumstance, you may find yourself needed at the last minute and get your big break.

 

[colonel45155]

The usual idea of a Residential Security Team isn't just to provide "blokes" at a residence to provide a visible deterrent. There are certain responsibilities that an RST must carry out, usually as part of the bigger Close Protection Team. With the RST being part of the CPT, there needs to be constant interaction. In many cases, the RST is also maintaing an "Ops Room", relaying information to from the House Staff / TL / BG etc.

A DS course doesn't provide the sufficient training or knowledge that covers these aspects.

I have also been RST on a job, then I have had to go on the CPT due to circumstances of one of the team. I have also had to conduct recce reports, route recce's etc for the CPT's next serial. Again, do DS have the ability to do this and step up where needed? Short answer is NO.

Cutting back on CP licensed personnel can / will bite companies in the arse, should unforeseen circumstances happen. Do it properly from the start.

If DS want to progress in to CP, then go and get on a good CP course and get CP licensed. Then apply for as many RST jobs as possible and gain some experience and progress on to the CPT. Or, as in my circumstance, you may find yourself needed at the last minute and get your big break.

Hypothetically speaking, do you say some high speed low drag ex SAS guy who has an SG badge can't do the job some raw CP badged guy who's done a 3wk course can?

I know I'm blowing this out of proportion with that example but this is the point we're trying to make here.

I personally can't afford to take a CP course, if I could would that make me more experienced, don't think so.

It's all got to do with what happens when the shit hits the fan, we've all been through some rough scrapes, it's how the individual deals with it, not recce reports or even risk assessments.

I know people with doctorates and law degrees who have been through college for years and their real world common gumption is zero, if they did a 3wk CP course would you let them have your back or would you rather have me, a lowly DS badge who is 15yrs in the industry in some of the biggest shitholes in N.Ireland and the mainland.

I even know a guy who can't read or wright but I'd say he's smarter in the real world than many.