DS cracking RST!

littlewoman

Longterm Registered User
The usual idea of a Residential Security Team isn't just to provide "blokes" at a residence to provide a visible deterrent. There are certain responsibilities that an RST must carry out, usually as part of the bigger Close Protection Team. With the RST being part of the CPT, there needs to be constant interaction. In many cases, the RST is also maintaing an "Ops Room", relaying information to from the House Staff / TL / BG etc.

A DS course doesn't provide the sufficient training or knowledge that covers these aspects.

I have also been RST on a job, then I have had to go on the CPT due to circumstances of one of the team. I have also had to conduct recce reports, route recce's etc for the CPT's next serial. Again, do DS have the ability to do this and step up where needed? Short answer is NO.

Cutting back on CP licensed personnel can / will bite companies in the arse, should unforeseen circumstances happen. Do it properly from the start.

If DS want to progress in to CP, then go and get on a good CP course and get CP licensed. Then apply for as many RST jobs as possible and gain some experience and progress on to the CPT. Or, as in my circumstance, you may find yourself needed at the last minute and get your big break.
A DS course may not cover running an ops room, doing recces etc. but that doesn't mean that they don't have experience doing it. DS work at festivals and other events and some of them will have experience of running ops rooms and doing site recce's.
This is why I asked before "What experience is it you think RST need." Some people seem to think that all DS ever do is stand on the door or inside a pub or club. Many will also do SG on all sorts of sites, work at events and festivals, sometimes working alongside other teams such as CP teams, other DS or SG teams and the police. So they are used to co-operating with other teams and passing on necessary information. They may also have experience of sites that are bigger and more complex than any RST they'll ever be likely to do.

Also, I doubt many on a CP course will actually run an ops room, they may be taught radio procedure but that doesn't mean they're good at it.

Its a matter of looking at the experience they have rather than just what badge they have.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Not saying that at all and that is complicating it for the point of complicating it. But lets stick to the purposes of courses and licensing. The debate about the SIA is another argument. For all intensive purposes, lets keep this in line with current license requirements.

I am saying that having a DS licensed individual can/will bite a security company in the arse, should a member of the RST be required to step up. Their training simply does not cover RST duties. A good CP course does. A DS licensed individual is unable to step up and do CP tasks, recce reports, route recces etc.

That is the way training and licensing is, whether we like it or not.
 

colonel45155

Longterm Registered User
Not saying that at all and that is complicating it for the point of complicating it. But lets stick to the purposes of courses and licensing. The debate about the SIA is another argument. For all intensive purposes, lets keep this in line with current license requirements.

I am saying that having a DS licensed individual can/will bite a security company in the arse, should a member of the RST be required to step up. Their training simply does not cover RST duties. A good CP course does. A DS licensed individual is unable to step up and do CP tasks, recce reports, route recces etc.

That is the way training and licensing is, whether we like it or not.

Did you even read my last post on page 4?

I'm glad you have so much faith in SIA training.
 
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littlewoman

Longterm Registered User
Not saying that at all and that is complicating it for the point of complicating it. But lets stick to the purposes of courses and licensing. The debate about the SIA is another argument. For all intensive purposes, lets keep this in line with current license requirements.

I am saying that having a DS licensed individual can/will bite a security company in the arse, should a member of the RST be required to step up. Their training simply does not cover RST duties. A good CP course does. A DS licensed individual is unable to step up and do CP tasks, recce reports, route recces etc.

That is the way training and licensing is, whether we like it or not.
Sorry but the SIA said early on that RST could be done on a SG or DS licence. There is nothing in the licensing requirements about recce reports.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Yes I have read it and I understand where you are coming from. I am not talking about the ability of individuals or going in to the "I am better than x,y,z at doing that job". I am talking generically about the training received on a DS course and the training received on a CP course, and in turn the licenses attained. I am also talking about the necessity to sometimes step up and do other tasks, not just RST.

Which is exactly why I stand by what I say and say that I believe that RST should be CP licensed.

You or someone else may be better on the ground than most of a CP team. But if I had to employ you on a job as RST, then I would look at the bigger picture and think about "what if". What if the BG came down with something. Could I use you with a DS badge as a replacement BG? No I could not, even if you were James Bond recently out of Hereford or whatever.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Listen, I am not going to start getting personal with you. And clearly you are missing my point and going on the defensive because you are not licensed to conduct CP activities. I am talking from experience taken from jobs I have personally been on. Like I say, you might be a very good CP operator once you are licensed to conduct CP activities. But as you are not licensed, then no, I would not use you on a CP task.

Rather than taking it personally and thinking I am having a dig at you, have a look at it in real terms from a CP company looking after their legal interests.
 

colonel45155

Longterm Registered User
Listen, I am not going to start getting personal with you. And clearly you are missing my point and going on the defensive because you are not licensed to conduct CP activities. I am talking from experience taken from jobs I have personally been on. Like I say, you might be a very good CP operator once you are licensed to conduct CP activities. But as you are not licensed, then no, I would not use you on a CP task.

Rather than taking it personally and thinking I am having a dig at you, have a look at it in real terms from a CP company looking after their legal interests.

No offence taken at all and I'm not taking anything personally. Your view is different to mine, fair enough, I do take your point but mine (and everyone elses here) is that 3wk course dosen't make a good CP operator.

Next thread we meet on we will probably agree ;)

Stay safe M8.

Col.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Again I am not saying that a CP course makes a good operator. I am saying that when it comes down to having the ability to change roles within a CP Team, are you able to go from RST to BG should you be required?

Please answer this question. If you were on a job with me and I was the TL, and I came to you and asked if you could step up to BG for a few days whilst the initial BG was recovering from illness, could you legally do so given the SIA licensing requirements?
 

colonel45155

Longterm Registered User
Again I am not saying that a CP course makes a good operator. I am saying that when it comes down to having the ability to change roles within a CP Team, are you able to go from RST to BG should you be required?

Please answer this question. If you were on a job with me and I was the TL, and I came to you and asked if you could step up to BG for a few days whilst the initial BG was recovering from illness, could you legally do so given the SIA licensing requirements?

You would never be in the position to be my TL.

I'm ending this discussion now.

Stay safe m8

Col
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Again, I am not getting personal with you. We dont know each other from Adam, so never say never!

I will answer my own question that I asked you. The answer is NO. "Hypothetically" I would not be able to use you or anyone else licensed as DS conducting RST on a CP task as BG should an emergency situation dictate (yes I consider the Principal having no BG as an emergency situation).
 

colonel45155

Longterm Registered User
MONG said:
Again, I am not getting personal with you. We dont know each other from Adam, so never say never!

I will answer my own question that I asked you. The answer is NO. "Hypothetically" I would not be able to use you or anyone else licensed as DS conducting RST on a CP task as BG should an emergency situation dictate (yes I consider the Principal having no BG as an emergency situation).

Jezus man, what part of "you'd never be my team leader" don't you understand, typical policeman, you're 28 years old and still cutting your teeth.

Here it is in plain English, I would never work with you, your attitude sucks.

Colonel out!
 
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littlewoman

Longterm Registered User
Again, I am not getting personal with you. We dont know each other from Adam, so never say never!

I will answer my own question that I asked you. The answer is NO. "Hypothetically" I would not be able to use you or anyone else licensed as DS conducting RST on a CP task as BG should an emergency situation dictate (yes I consider the Principal having no BG as an emergency situation).
It would certainly be wise, in fact necessary to have some CP licensed people on the RST team, so that some could step up if necessary. However, you could also ask someone on another CP shift, surely. However, that doesn't mean that everyone on your RST team needs to have a CP licence, if you have to get the whole RST team to step up then you have problems way beyond who has what licence.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Well my profile is a little out of date, I am 32.

Going from your response, I feel that it is a typical "spit the dummy out" attitude just because of the reality of what I am saying. You are taking it personally (again) and either fail to understand what I am saying or just plain wont accept the facts because you dont like the answer.

You can ask any of my colleagues if I have an attitude that sucks. I am pretty sure I wouldnt have been in some of the jobs I have been on (or ran), or am currently in if my attitude sucks and I was hard to work with.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
Littlewoman, sometimes that is not the case.

An RST can consist of 1 person on a 12 hour shift. The CPT can be a BG/TL and CPO.

I think I have proven my point, and I fully stand by what I have said.

I am not disrespecting anyone or their ability to carry out a job. Like I have said over and over, I am talking about the bigger picture and sometimes the necessity to do different roles. It is not a difficult concept.
 

JHD

Longterm Registered User
Hi all

When the purpose of the role is to provide Close Protection for clients who happen to be staying at a building, which could in fact be a hotel, then the RST 'duty' is performed by a CPO. The members of the CP team often rotate through the various duties, which could include PPO and PES, and the guys remaining at the building are known as the RST. The guys doing RST on one day could do a different role the next day; therefore all of the team need to have the correct badge for the overall mission.

When the purpose of the role is to provide security for a building to stop unauthorised access or determine the suitability for admission to the premises etc. (whether the building is occupied or not) then this duty can be performed by other security personnel, including CPOs.

Kind regards

JHD
 
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littlewoman

Longterm Registered User
Littlewoman, sometimes that is not the case.

An RST can consist of 1 person on a 12 hour shift. The CPT can be a BG/TL and CPO.

I think I have proven my point, and I fully stand by what I have said.

I am not disrespecting anyone or their ability to carry out a job. Like I have said over and over, I am talking about the bigger picture and sometimes the necessity to do different roles. It is not a difficult concept.

If your team is that small, then you should have people you can call on to fill positions anyway, otherwise you'd be leaving one or the other unprotected. Also, unless those two are working 24/7 then you should have another shift that can stand in for at least 12 hours until you get someone else.
 

mmorg3053

Longterm Registered User
You are just proving my point to be even more relevant. There is no point saying "i can do RST if it is a, b, c but not x, y, z". Fact of the matter is as proven here, RST should be CP qualified, irrespective of an SG or DS capability to do the job.

If I had to look at a load of CV'S for an RST role then I would make sure that all the necessary qualifications in licensing were there first and foremost. Then I would sift the qualifying CV's for individuals who I feel would suit the role. Then some form of interviews would take place before finally picking the team.
 
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rhea

Longterm Registered User
I think I have proven my point
That's your big mistake. It should be others to say not you.

I have a DS badge, never done a door (in this country) in my life. I do RST and my employer hasn't even bothered to ask if I have the piece of plastic let alone what is written on it.

I think he would piss all over you if you told him I was not up to the job.
 
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