FPOS -v- MIRA

S

Sanddancer

Longterm Registered User
I have very basic med knowledge and would like to know what are the major differences between FPOS & MIRA courses?

Not just the differences in course content but are there differences in the medical approach taken by each?

Cheers to all you med gurus in advance
 
I believe MIRA requires training to FPOSi or similar as a prerequisite.

First person on scene is all about holding the fort while a more experienced medic arrives, MIRA is one of the qualifications such a medic might hold.
 
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Well where does one start = FPOS-Intermediate is an IHCD (Edexcel) Course underpinned by the same people that issue NHS ambulance qualifications and Paramedic qualifications. FPOS-I is responding to maintain life support for up to 40 minutes HOWEVER that is more than sufficient anywhere and should not be taken too literally. To say FPOS is a basic qualification is extremely simplistic. FPOS is a qualification that introduces the responder to patient care and observations. It is THE qualfication accepted by Community Response schemes (and sometimes the shorter course known as FPOS - BASIC) and is in use by blue light responders on 999 calls especially on the largest scheme of its kind in London.

The Royal College of surgeons (Ed) also accredits the course as it does with alot of courses in the UK. The problems then come when companies start to sell 'add ons', 'extended skills' and loads of other rubbish which quite frankly is stealing your money. Why is this?

Royal College of Surgeons will accredit any course for anyone as long as the procedures meet the national standard. The materials on the MIRA, Notts UNI Hospital EMT course and all the others are the same book from the RCS. To gain accreditation and say it is an RCS approved course - you fill in a form with all this stuff on it, get a doctor to sign it to say that it is within current guidelines and then pay £500 and bingo - accredited. You can accredit anything as it is only training and does not give you a licence to practise whatsoever and you will NEVER be allowed to practise.

You should also not think that that you are clear to do what you want in the field - if someone conducted a procedure on me in Iraq without clinical governance I (or my familiy of Health care professionals) would sue you. In order to practise you MUST have clinical governance and a medical director overseeing your competency for these types of invasive procedures. Legal (and I am also a professional risk manager) you are leaving yourself wide open. Good samaritan act can be argued with first aid but NOT where you are cutting about with loads of ridiculous bits of kit that even Paramedics cant use. You are still subject to international law!

Because extended skills for an FPOS - I amount to things like blood pressure taking, blood glucose monitoring and some other accepted non interventive techniques. The problem is that there are alot of companies that will sell people courses, give it a fancy title and call it after an animal - VIPER/COBRA or something catchy i.e. MIRA. They then tell you that because you are on board ship in the middle of nowhere, Helmand Province or somewhere with no medical care (which is what they have you believe) then you NEED loads of Doctor or Paramedic skills.

We should examine some of the interventions shown that are included:

Cannualation and fluid therapy. For some reason they will have you believe that this is a must to save someone's life = however Paramedics rarely use this and even in cases of mass bleeds fluid is not always required. Direct pressure, elevation and a good bandage technique invariably suffices. DANGER - the danger for the adminstration of fluids is that it can be potentially life threatening in a hypotensive patient - this means high blood pressure. Now if you are taught this on a 5 day course or even 10 day course and having never seen a real patient then it is potentially dangerous. The administration of certain fluids in patients with certain head injuries can also be fatal. The existence of a radial pulse is an absolute reason NOT to administer fluids (except for certain medical conditions (hyperglygemia etc). Ambulance technicians in the NHS that have completed 8 weeks (300 hours + of training and been 750 hrs on the road are NOT allowed to administer fluid therapy or cannulate - can we just ask ourselves why?
There may be an argument for canulation and keeping the vein open but for god sake if we have never seen a sick person then how are we ever going to be able to think this far advanced - its crazy!


Intubation - now this is a pearler - there are 4 grades of intubation difficulty and Paramedics must complete 25 intubations in theatres before they are permitted to practise this skill. Intubation has also been taken away from certain NHS Services. If you put a tube down someone's throat having only practised on a plastic dummy you need your head read! You run the risk of inducing vommitting and complications, no End Tidal CO2 monitoring can be fatal. It is absolutely disgusting that so called professionals will give people any information regarding this. If you have time on a course to do this then frankly you are being had! I would also like to say that the use of the LMA is slightly easier but tech 4s need to do 10 to practise on real people under supervision.

The teaching of things like anti - biotics is also a travesty. Doctors prescribe these kind of drugs for god sake and we have done a few days in a class room.

The whole thing with these courses is hillarious and one of the courses - a VIPER (VIP emergency responder ha ha ha - I have been a body guard for 20 years in all areas of the industry and a health care professional and I have absolutely no clue what this means!

I have asked what a ship borne medic course responder entails and I was told it is about burns and using an AED in a water environmnet - how funny is that!!!!!

Bottom line is anyone who knows what they are talking about knows this stuff is a gimmick and dangerous - anyone who has not the slightest clue or is trying to sell this stuff is going to vehemently disagree.

I challenge anyone pipe up and defend this rubbish - and give me the chance to take you on! I want everyone exposed on this and want all the money you companies have stolen to repay it!

There is NEVER any reason to do anything but FPOS-I which is an excellent level and more than is required in most cases. All these courses are FPOS - I - as a wise man once said all these courses are just FPOS turds rolled in glitter!


Do an FPOS - I, then if you want to do more do a formal international ambulance course (such as IHCD Ambulance Aid, AREMT EMT, NAEMT EMT and HSE offshore medic (once you are already a medical professional) and even then you still wont be able to do this stuff - ask yourself WHY???????

Do yourselves a favour find yourself the best (and cheap because it is a set product) FPOS-I course - learn the stuff well, practise your taking observations and patient management regularly, approach hospitals, passenger transport companies or responder schemes to stay current. Get some patient contact or with all the will in the world the training is devalued. FPOS-I is the absolute highest level to gain without someform or regular patient contact.

This is a rant but these companies need to be exposed and people told the truth - I (and all the health care professionals not involved in these companies) are sick of seeing ' this is not a normal FPOS but a special FPOS' blah blah blah.

Of course maybe we are all jealous of these companies and maybe you do actually NEED these skills??? Maybe in my 15+ operational tours and my many years on the circuit since in all these places and current and recent war zones - I have been missing something?
 
Thanks Resus Russ - I have made a clinical typo error or 2 in my post as my fury was running away with me and I also never ellaborated on some other clinical stuff but I think I made the point - as my post says ANYONE who knows anything will agree with me! Cheers mate
 
Theres a couple of other threads covering this, but it all comes down to hands on experience and patient contact.
FPOS I is a great course, but so is a FAW course taught by a good instructor !.
The good old SIA only want a FAW or FPOS so pick your course within your budget, and go for it.

Russ
 
www.exmed.co .uk - this is where the MIRA concept (and course title came from). You will get all the info you need from these guys.

Yes they cover fluids on the MIRA course, but give the info to go with it.

It's worth noting that the MIRA course is aimed at those "who already have experience in Pre-Hospital Care".

No they don't teach intubation, and do explain on the course why.

For me, I think the best approach is not just to look at the course, but to look who is teaching on the course. If you want a bog standard First Aid at Work course, then this is less relevent. However, if you want anything more applied, you need to find people that "DO" the more austere/remote medical services, not "HAVE DONE". Make sure they are current - the decent providers won't mind you asking.

Staying current is admittedly difficult - not sure how many hospitals would take you on if you knocked on there door with an FPOS qual... I could be wrong though. If they do, let me know which ones - and I'll try to avoid them.
 
capesierra said:
Well where does one start = FPOS-Intermediate is an IHCD (Edexcel) Course underpinned by the same people that issue NHS ambulance qualifications and Paramedic qualifications. FPOS-I is responding to maintain life support for up to 40 minutes HOWEVER that is more than sufficient anywhere and should not be taken too literally. To say FPOS is a basic qualification is extremely simplistic. FPOS is a qualification that introduces the responder to patient care and observations. It is THE qualfication accepted by Community Response schemes (and sometimes the shorter course known as FPOS - BASIC) and is in use by blue light responders on 999 calls especially on the largest scheme of its kind in London.

The Royal College of surgeons (Ed) also accredits the course as it does with alot of courses in the UK. The problems then come when companies start to sell 'add ons', 'extended skills' and loads of other rubbish which quite frankly is stealing your money. Why is this?

Royal College of Surgeons will accredit any course for anyone as long as the procedures meet the national standard. The materials on the MIRA, Notts UNI Hospital EMT course and all the others are the same book from the RCS. To gain accreditation and say it is an RCS approved course - you fill in a form with all this stuff on it, get a doctor to sign it to say that it is within current guidelines and then pay £500 and bingo - accredited. You can accredit anything as it is only training and does not give you a licence to practise whatsoever and you will NEVER be allowed to practise.

You should also not think that that you are clear to do what you want in the field - if someone conducted a procedure on me in Iraq without clinical governance I (or my familiy of Health care professionals) would sue you. In order to practise you MUST have clinical governance and a medical director overseeing your competency for these types of invasive procedures. Legal (and I am also a professional risk manager) you are leaving yourself wide open. Good samaritan act can be argued with first aid but NOT where you are cutting about with loads of ridiculous bits of kit that even Paramedics cant use. You are still subject to international law!

Because extended skills for an FPOS - I amount to things like blood pressure taking, blood glucose monitoring and some other accepted non interventive techniques. The problem is that there are alot of companies that will sell people courses, give it a fancy title and call it after an animal - VIPER/COBRA or something catchy i.e. MIRA. They then tell you that because you are on board ship in the middle of nowhere, Helmand Province or somewhere with no medical care (which is what they have you believe) then you NEED loads of Doctor or Paramedic skills.

We should examine some of the interventions shown that are included:

Cannualation and fluid therapy. For some reason they will have you believe that this is a must to save someone's life = however Paramedics rarely use this and even in cases of mass bleeds fluid is not always required. Direct pressure, elevation and a good bandage technique invariably suffices. DANGER - the danger for the adminstration of fluids is that it can be potentially life threatening in a hypotensive patient - this means high blood pressure. Now if you are taught this on a 5 day course or even 10 day course and having never seen a real patient then it is potentially dangerous. The administration of certain fluids in patients with certain head injuries can also be fatal. The existence of a radial pulse is an absolute reason NOT to administer fluids (except for certain medical conditions (hyperglygemia etc). Ambulance technicians in the NHS that have completed 8 weeks (300 hours + of training and been 750 hrs on the road are NOT allowed to administer fluid therapy or cannulate - can we just ask ourselves why?
There may be an argument for canulation and keeping the vein open but for god sake if we have never seen a sick person then how are we ever going to be able to think this far advanced - its crazy!


Intubation - now this is a pearler - there are 4 grades of intubation difficulty and Paramedics must complete 25 intubations in theatres before they are permitted to practise this skill. Intubation has also been taken away from certain NHS Services. If you put a tube down someone's throat having only practised on a plastic dummy you need your head read! You run the risk of inducing vommitting and complications, no End Tidal CO2 monitoring can be fatal. It is absolutely disgusting that so called professionals will give people any information regarding this. If you have time on a course to do this then frankly you are being had! I would also like to say that the use of the LMA is slightly easier but tech 4s need to do 10 to practise on real people under supervision.

The teaching of things like anti - biotics is also a travesty. Doctors prescribe these kind of drugs for god sake and we have done a few days in a class room.

The whole thing with these courses is hillarious and one of the courses - a VIPER (VIP emergency responder ha ha ha - I have been a body guard for 20 years in all areas of the industry and a health care professional and I have absolutely no clue what this means!

I have asked what a ship borne medic course responder entails and I was told it is about burns and using an AED in a water environmnet - how funny is that!!!!!

Bottom line is anyone who knows what they are talking about knows this stuff is a gimmick and dangerous - anyone who has not the slightest clue or is trying to sell this stuff is going to vehemently disagree.

I challenge anyone pipe up and defend this rubbish - and give me the chance to take you on! I want everyone exposed on this and want all the money you companies have stolen to repay it!

There is NEVER any reason to do anything but FPOS-I which is an excellent level and more than is required in most cases. All these courses are FPOS - I - as a wise man once said all these courses are just FPOS turds rolled in glitter!


Do an FPOS - I, then if you want to do more do a formal international ambulance course (such as IHCD Ambulance Aid, AREMT EMT, NAEMT EMT and HSE offshore medic (once you are already a medical professional) and even then you still wont be able to do this stuff - ask yourself WHY???????

Do yourselves a favour find yourself the best (and cheap because it is a set product) FPOS-I course - learn the stuff well, practise your taking observations and patient management regularly, approach hospitals, passenger transport companies or responder schemes to stay current. Get some patient contact or with all the will in the world the training is devalued. FPOS-I is the absolute highest level to gain without someform or regular patient contact.

This is a rant but these companies need to be exposed and people told the truth - I (and all the health care professionals not involved in these companies) are sick of seeing ' this is not a normal FPOS but a special FPOS' blah blah blah.

Of course maybe we are all jealous of these companies and maybe you do actually NEED these skills??? Maybe in my 15+ operational tours and my many years on the circuit since in all these places and current and recent war zones - I have been missing something?
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
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Fair play Capesierra and Resus Russ. I am inclined to agree.

Capesierra, you missed out vagal nerve stimulation (Bradycardia, hypotension) ......coagulopathy......

If you want to do fancy things like advanced airway management (god forbid surgical airways), chest drains, needle decompressions, fluids, drugs........ then dig out blind, work hard and become a healthcare professional. You certainly can´t learn all the necessary theory, practical skills in 4 or 5 days, let alone retain it and become competent and confident.

You could always try the Specialist Operational Support (SOS) Emergency Medical Technician / Wilderness Emergency Medical Technician. It includes patient assessment at a primary care clinic and ambulance attachments to consolidate skills and gain competence and confidence, while gaining that all important real world hands on. When the wheel comes off this is time well spent and what you´ll fall back on.

Bags of info on the forum about this.

Anyway capesierra, I´ll leave it there and let you continue to rant! lol

M4MED
 
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capesierra said:
Well where does one start = FPOS-Intermediate is an IHCD (Edexcel) Course underpinned by the same people that issue NHS ambulance qualifications and Paramedic qualifications. FPOS-I is responding to maintain life support for up to 40 minutes HOWEVER that is more than sufficient anywhere and should not be taken too literally. To say FPOS is a basic qualification is extremely simplistic. FPOS is a qualification that introduces the responder to patient care and observations. It is THE qualfication accepted by Community Response schemes (and sometimes the shorter course known as FPOS - BASIC) and is in use by blue light responders on 999 calls especially on the largest scheme of its kind in London.

The Royal College of surgeons (Ed) also accredits the course as it does with alot of courses in the UK. The problems then come when companies start to sell 'add ons', 'extended skills' and loads of other rubbish which quite frankly is stealing your money. Why is this?

Royal College of Surgeons will accredit any course for anyone as long as the procedures meet the national standard. The materials on the MIRA, Notts UNI Hospital EMT course and all the others are the same book from the RCS. To gain accreditation and say it is an RCS approved course - you fill in a form with all this stuff on it, get a doctor to sign it to say that it is within current guidelines and then pay £500 and bingo - accredited. You can accredit anything as it is only training and does not give you a licence to practise whatsoever and you will NEVER be allowed to practise.

You should also not think that that you are clear to do what you want in the field - if someone conducted a procedure on me in Iraq without clinical governance I (or my familiy of Health care professionals) would sue you. In order to practise you MUST have clinical governance and a medical director overseeing your competency for these types of invasive procedures. Legal (and I am also a professional risk manager) you are leaving yourself wide open. Good samaritan act can be argued with first aid but NOT where you are cutting about with loads of ridiculous bits of kit that even Paramedics cant use. You are still subject to international law!

Because extended skills for an FPOS - I amount to things like blood pressure taking, blood glucose monitoring and some other accepted non interventive techniques. The problem is that there are alot of companies that will sell people courses, give it a fancy title and call it after an animal - VIPER/COBRA or something catchy i.e. MIRA. They then tell you that because you are on board ship in the middle of nowhere, Helmand Province or somewhere with no medical care (which is what they have you believe) then you NEED loads of Doctor or Paramedic skills.

We should examine some of the interventions shown that are included:

Cannualation and fluid therapy. For some reason they will have you believe that this is a must to save someone's life = however Paramedics rarely use this and even in cases of mass bleeds fluid is not always required. Direct pressure, elevation and a good bandage technique invariably suffices. DANGER - the danger for the adminstration of fluids is that it can be potentially life threatening in a hypotensive patient - this means high blood pressure. Now if you are taught this on a 5 day course or even 10 day course and having never seen a real patient then it is potentially dangerous. The administration of certain fluids in patients with certain head injuries can also be fatal. The existence of a radial pulse is an absolute reason NOT to administer fluids (except for certain medical conditions (hyperglygemia etc). Ambulance technicians in the NHS that have completed 8 weeks (300 hours + of training and been 750 hrs on the road are NOT allowed to administer fluid therapy or cannulate - can we just ask ourselves why?
There may be an argument for canulation and keeping the vein open but for god sake if we have never seen a sick person then how are we ever going to be able to think this far advanced - its crazy!


Intubation - now this is a pearler - there are 4 grades of intubation difficulty and Paramedics must complete 25 intubations in theatres before they are permitted to practise this skill. Intubation has also been taken away from certain NHS Services. If you put a tube down someone's throat having only practised on a plastic dummy you need your head read! You run the risk of inducing vommitting and complications, no End Tidal CO2 monitoring can be fatal. It is absolutely disgusting that so called professionals will give people any information regarding this. If you have time on a course to do this then frankly you are being had! I would also like to say that the use of the LMA is slightly easier but tech 4s need to do 10 to practise on real people under supervision.

The teaching of things like anti - biotics is also a travesty. Doctors prescribe these kind of drugs for god sake and we have done a few days in a class room.

The whole thing with these courses is hillarious and one of the courses - a VIPER (VIP emergency responder ha ha ha - I have been a body guard for 20 years in all areas of the industry and a health care professional and I have absolutely no clue what this means!

I have asked what a ship borne medic course responder entails and I was told it is about burns and using an AED in a water environmnet - how funny is that!!!!!

Bottom line is anyone who knows what they are talking about knows this stuff is a gimmick and dangerous - anyone who has not the slightest clue or is trying to sell this stuff is going to vehemently disagree.

I challenge anyone pipe up and defend this rubbish - and give me the chance to take you on! I want everyone exposed on this and want all the money you companies have stolen to repay it!

There is NEVER any reason to do anything but FPOS-I which is an excellent level and more than is required in most cases. All these courses are FPOS - I - as a wise man once said all these courses are just FPOS turds rolled in glitter!


Do an FPOS - I, then if you want to do more do a formal international ambulance course (such as IHCD Ambulance Aid, AREMT EMT, NAEMT EMT and HSE offshore medic (once you are already a medical professional) and even then you still wont be able to do this stuff - ask yourself WHY???????

Do yourselves a favour find yourself the best (and cheap because it is a set product) FPOS-I course - learn the stuff well, practise your taking observations and patient management regularly, approach hospitals, passenger transport companies or responder schemes to stay current. Get some patient contact or with all the will in the world the training is devalued. FPOS-I is the absolute highest level to gain without someform or regular patient contact.

This is a rant but these companies need to be exposed and people told the truth - I (and all the health care professionals not involved in these companies) are sick of seeing ' this is not a normal FPOS but a special FPOS' blah blah blah.

Of course maybe we are all jealous of these companies and maybe you do actually NEED these skills??? Maybe in my 15+ operational tours and my many years on the circuit since in all these places and current and recent war zones - I have been missing something?
Click to expand...

Well said.

Thing is though if employer X,Y,Z says you need course A,B,C then what's a man to do? Pay up and get the chance of the job or sit at home on the moral high ground?

Same as the firearms course that i heard touted recently....'This course is a pre-requsite to employment for X,Y,Z company(Maritime)' well ok then i am the first to admit that there is always something to learn..but hell's teeth a weapon system is a weapon system we are not talking uber awesome ninja skills required to do an IA drill....or maybe i just need to do a 'Tactical maritime firearms course'? LoL.
 
Having the info is not enough - if an ambulance technician after a year's training is not allowed to do it then you have to ask why.
Anyway - getting some patient contact for those of you that do not quite understand could amount to going to a hospital and volunteering for orderly duties or other types of patient assistance. I know portsmouth certainly allowed this at somepoint as do many others. Also Patient Transfer services do not normally even need FPOS so you would be more than qualified. I have current operators that have done just this kind of thing and got themselves into GP surgeries and community medical centres and clinics to assist with basic observations - so as we can see I do not quite mean tip up at the hospital and ask for a doctor's placement. That would be ridiculous - I am sure most people would understand me so there is clarification if needed.

I totally agree that you should ask the providers - the question is 'WILL THIS GIVE ME A LICENCE TO PRACTISE' or 'IS A MEDICAL DIRECTOR LIKELY TO GIVE ME A LICENCE TO PRACTISE' if so I want the name of that doctor as I have ambulance services to set up with untrained staff - a massive niche!!!

Also we should remember that FPOS-I is technically a pre-req but as we know the providers themselves do not adhere to their own standards. It has been possible for courses where FPOS is a pre-req to not have to even do it because you have been in the Army or something and put a bandage on before. The courses have also been cut to as little as 3 days from zero to hero even though they have a pre - req of FPOS-I (2 hrs pre read, 30 hrs contact and 2 hours assessment) and then the 'other' course which would normally be 5 days!!!!

I am not ONLY talking about MIRA that is a concept and not a course title that is copywrite and more than 1 provider does that course. I am by no means talking about any one company. And to suggest that there are stringent controls on the courses to ensure blokes have prehospital care experience that is baloney!!!!! And there are 80 + responders in london and other counties that book on shift with the Ambulance Service and respond to 999 calls - all on an FPOS-I. Maybe the streets of london are perfecly alright for running to 999 calls because it isnt the same as a REMOTE or CHALLENGING environment. Where companies purport to teach 'surgical airways' even though they might claim to not teach ET intubation does that mean that sticking a knife in someone's throat is less dangerous than ET intubations? There are some clinical debates there! It raises the question that why does a 999 responder or a trained professional ambulance crew (less Paramedics) also not get trained in surgical airways? After all if a surgical airway is required - a Paramedic or doctor could be 10 minutes away or more even in london. Ambulance response times are 8 minutes (6 on average) if the crew arriving is a responder or a technician with no advanced or no surgical airway skills how long would it be before someone with those skills arrives? How long do we have before someone dies if they need that and have a blocked airway and supposing you can recognise it. So why would the use of surgical airways be anymore important for a non - Paramedic in the middle of the amazon jungle than it is for a fully trained US/Brit/Aus Ambulance technician? They are not trained in that stuff either because they too are not taught it because it is too dangerous without PROPER training.

Thanks for posts guys. This just adds fuel - bring it on. And as far as teaching the info for fluids for gods sake - the reasons are that the side effects and potential complications far far outweigh the benefits which is why only properly trained people are ALLOWED to do it. You need to be sufficiently skilled and qualified so you can correct potential complications its not just about when to use it, its about covering ALL the bases based on patient physiological outcomes and reactions - the entire spectrum is taught in 5 days ??????? Not a chance - thats why Paramedics take 3 years! and not 5 days!
 
Definately Daz080970 - no idea what tactical firearms are? but that is another debate- no idea what a Hostile Environment is in CP as opposed to a non- hostile environment - but you are correct if an employer (and that is what the recruiter tells you you need) then great - if a particular company tells you they need it then great - I recently did a bit of Defib training with a CEO of one of those companies and he was amazed and bought loads of them - whilst I advocate AEDs wholeheartedly I could have got him to do anything that day because he was in awe of something he did not know about - thats what these things are all about.... selling people what they dont need and can never use - brilliant - Im wasting my life as a CPO! Need to get into selling sand to arabs and snow to eskimos like everyone else!!!! Can I start on selling people HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT CP Courses ?????? lol thats also gleaming - what other environment would a CPO work in !!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha and executive protection ha ha what is that!!!!!
 
Very quality response on this one,thx guys.

Regarding all those "courses" currently offered it's something what i'm talking about for a long long time : just another way to gain more money from people,nothing else.

DEUS VULT!
 
I really can't believe not ONE medic TP has made a comment on this thread A picture paints a 1000 words and SILENCE speaks volumes
 
I did, on behlaf of Specialist Operational Support Ltd (SOS) in which I agreed with the post and demonstrated the difference with our courses; we follow national curriculi and offer patient contact through primary care clinics and ambulance attachments to develop competence and confidence. Very happy with our stance and that the initial comment does not pertain to us. We´ve delivered training to RMP CPOs, dipomats, London Ambulance Service, First Responders, Wilderness and Exped Medics etc etc.

Anyone completing our EMT and Wilderness EMT courses (appropriate for the CP industry, healthcare professionals, NGOs, journalists etc) will have seen a broad range of children and adult patients in both primary and emergency care settings and will leave head and shoulders above their peers and ready for deployment, having taken vitals, histories and afforded treatment within the scope of their practice whilst under pressure.

Given that most medics in the sand pit and onboard ship see more medical problems than trauma, we feel we have the balance right. During our last course STUDENTS dealt with: Gunshot wounds to the chest, knife wound to the abdomen, hyperglycaemia, hypoglycaemia, bradycardia, head, neck and spinal injuries from RTCs, asthma attacks, fungal infections, dengue fever, broken toe, cardiac arrest and parasites.

Patient contact aside, the team received tropical medicine lectures from a Tropical Medicine Doctor, a venomous snake recognition and antivenom administration presentation (with live snakes) from a herpetologist, discussed heat illness, spider and scorpion bites/stings, ticks while ascending through a jungle in Guatemala and discussed burns, altitude illness, respiratory conditions (inhalation) etc whilst ascending a live volcano, received extrication training from the fire service and assisted at a local clinic (A selection of photos are available on CPW and our Facebook page)

During the Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TCCC) phase we discuss the latest equipment and techniques as presented at the International Combat Trauma Innovation conference in London.

You´ve got me started now, I´m looking forward to delivering the next course in April.

All the best and stay safe,

M4MED
View attachment 4280View attachment 4281View attachment 4282
Specialist Operational Support - The SOS Group

Specialist Operational Support Ltd | Facebook
 
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I can honestly say I have put these posts on Facebook pages and other areas and the problem is that the other providers know that is what they are doing- I cannot blame them for taking money but NO ONE could possibly assert that this is what is needed. I am not suprised whatsover. I would like to congratulate SOS for speaking out as a training provider - it does speak volumes and how refreshing to see a provider willing to stick its neck out - out of interest I have researched this area quite alot and I was wanting to speak to these people to ask about their courses at the Combat Trauma Innovation Conference in London and guess what - only SOS were there!!!!! and they are the only ones that have had the balls to comment on here! Not saying they are everything as there are alot of good providers out there but they seem to be a recurring theme. Does that mean that the other providers are willing to take your cash and not even bother to attend the very pinnacle of the cutting edge of theory in the tac med arena. Hmmmm make your own minds up. The conference was superb for those that did attend and there were some extremely interesting ideas and new technology. Very quickly it was apparent that the whole ethos is centred around difinitive medical care. And that has never really changed. Those that did not attend (i.e. TPs) clearly know it all already - or so they think!
 
Capesierra....... 2 fantastic posts, well put, to the point & medical/ethically correct. I have been trying to say something similar for years, i just havn't got the way with words you do! There are very few TP's who will come on here or any where to justify there courses because they feel they dont have to. why? because at the end of the day it's not about standars for them, only £££££.
Is it about regulation? no, but it should be, we can even come down to FA@W training, ( no not knocking it, it's a great course if taught well) there are SO many people who now teach this course, not because they have the experiance, not because they really know what they are talking about, but only because they are allowed teach it. Same goes for 'MIRA/VIPER/ etc etc etc....fancy name does not make it a fancy course. We desperatly need regulation, we cant even self regulate, because there are so many people all about the ££ or being able to call themselves 'a medic'..... I think the RCS Ed & England should step in, but again they will not,, all about the £££. Your right about experience, paramedics take years to learn their 'trade'.. not 5 days, for a really good reason, as you pointed out so eliquantly. So why oh why cant we do the same for Instructors/teachers... put a limit on your teaching unless you have the experience to teach a subject, 10 years on the road as a EMT or PARMEDIC wiill still only give you an insight to human stupidity or down right imcompetance, but at least you can express yourself, pass on tips n hints, get across the real point of why should or SHOULD NOT do a certain technique.... (ET tube, cannualtion, etc...). After 20 years NHS & a further 8 years MOD, I still class myself as an EMT with added extras...... more often than not I have to think " why do i need to do this or that procedure,, will basic, fundemental, techneques not work?" sometimes its about not being a 'paramedic' with all the bells n whistles, but more the solid, safe, compitant medical proffesional.
sorry for the rant.. but when i saw the posts, just had to say something., enjoyed them so much.
 
There's clearly plenty of people that know what they are talking about when it comes to the subject matter and application in various environments.

This is also coupled with some clearly very strong feelings about the training, courses and money being made in this area.

But what is being done about it? Is anyone actually taking these issues to the TP's or governing bodies? Or in this case, isthere just a number of angry medics behind keyboards?

The security industry on the whole (SIA aside) is pretty self regulating - Walt get outed, decent operators stay in work some do slip through, but the majority of the time poor TP's are identified, poor operators are known and not referred and companies that are incompetent are identified and there names put out there.

All of this is possible because people do a little more than get angry behind their keyboards.

It's easy to say how things "should or shouldn't" be - but if things are to improve in any area, people need to take the courage of their convictions and actually call the entites out on what they believe is wrong....

is this happening?
 
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