Gold Dealer Escorting

W

wookie747

Full Registered User
Hi Guys,
Bit of an odd question for you. I currently work as a DS but have just been approached by a regular customer who is a gold dealer and wants someone to go with he when he is picking up gold (about 100kg at a time).
No secure vehicle no uniform or anything like that just me and him in a civi car.
Do I need to a CVIT to do this sort of thing? I tried asking the SIA but as usual they don't know their arse from their elbow and promised someone would call me back but as usual no one did.

Thanks guys sorry for stupid question.

Wookie
 
wookie747 said:
Hi Guys,
Bit of an odd question for you. I currently work as a DS but have just been approached by a regular customer who is a gold dealer and wants someone to go with he when he is picking up gold (about 100kg at a time).
No secure vehicle no uniform or anything like that just me and him in a civi car.
Do I need to a CVIT to do this sort of thing? I tried asking the SIA but as usual they don't know their arse from their elbow and promised someone would call me back but as usual no one did.

Thanks guys sorry for stupid question.

Wookie
Click to expand...

Depends mate if you are protecting your client or protecting the gold..? you may wish to view the 'defintions' at the SIA website...not that I agree with these particular definitions but that is a different story...

In fact, I have just visited their website and I can now only find their 'definition' for Close Protection... If they have removed the others then it would not surprise me..!

http://sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/home/training/training_providerinfo.htm

Don't be to surprised by the lack of response by the SIA... It is most doubtful that they themselves will even understand the format of what they have written..!
 
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I would have thought a CP license would be the main requirement, maybe CVIT.
But I'm suprised Carl didn't jump on it.
You have been aproached by the client, I assume he wants you to work directly for him and not through an agency or third party.
He is your direct employer in every sense.
So to my knowledge you don't need a license.
What you 'do need' is training, to justify the trust your client has shown in you.
The question wasn't stupid, but you've asked the wrong question.
It should have been where will I get the best training etc.
Best of luck and keep us informed.
Speak to Dave Ruebens, or approach Longmoor or many of the other great trainers on CPW.
Do a bit of research via the search bar, PM the guys you get the feel for.
We want you to suceed and make a go of this.
Well done, trust is often the hardest thing to achieve with a client.
Lets try keep it that way.
 
Oddjob said:
I would have thought a CP license would be the main requirement, maybe CVIT.
But I'm suprised Carl didn't jump on it.
You have been aproached by the client, I assume he wants you to work directly for him and not through an agency or third party.
He is your direct employer in every sense.
So to my knowledge you don't need a license.
What you 'do need' is training, to justify the trust your client has shown in you.
The question wasn't stupid, but you've asked the wrong question.
It should have been where will I get the best training etc.
Best of luck and keep us informed.
Speak to Dave Ruebens, or approach Longmoor or many of the other great trainers on CPW.
Do a bit of research via the search bar, PM the guys you get the feel for.
We want you to suceed and make a go of this.
Well done, trust is often the hardest thing to achieve with a client.
Lets try keep it that way.
Click to expand...

Would it not depend OJ on whether or not the client is 'contracting' this guy's services in or this guy is PAYE..?

Personally on this one, it is open to the 'Ways and means Act' 2009...

CD
 
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Carl Dowd said:
Would it not depend OJ on whether or not the client is 'contracting' this guy's services in or this guy is PAYE..?

Personally on this one, it is open to the 'Ways and means Act' 2009...

CD
Click to expand...

He's a bloody DS, he's a cash man, it goes without saying.
where's the militant CD we all know and Love.
 
Carl Dowd said:
Would it not depend OJ on whether or not the client is 'contracting' this guy's services in or this guy is PAYE..?

Personally on this one, it is open to the 'Ways and means Act' 2009...

CD
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If its a self employed job, license needed.
If hes paying the tax and NI, no license.

I think its that simple.
 
Mattsmith1990 said:
If its a self employed job, license needed.
If hes paying the tax and NI, no license.

I think its that simple.
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Then again he could be a self employed PA or valet, Surveillance or PI, who's to know ?
I still say the best training is the right question, and the most important item here.
So many aspects to this job and its requirements.
Sounds like a good opportunity, to raise his game, he needs to grab it with both hands and squeeze it till it squeaks.
The license will come after the right training, if its needed, but maybe not for this job. The SIA can afford to wait I think.
 
I'll throw my view in for what its worth. I don't see this as CVIT and I believe the SIA wouldn't either. I do believe it is clearly CP of a client and his assets. As has been said, I also believe the crux is how you are being 'employed'. I can't see you as an 'in house employee' for this purpose and that would be difficult to prove in these circs. My money is on you needing a CP licence for this work. I will be interested to hear the SIA view.
 
Oddjob said:
Then again he could be a self employed PA or valet, Surveillance or PI, who's to know ?
I still say the best training is the right question, and the most important item here.
So many aspects to this job and its requirements.
Sounds like a good opportunity, to raise his game, he needs to grab it with both hands and squeeze it till it squeaks.
The license will come after the right training, if its needed, but maybe not for this job. The SIA can afford to wait I think.
Click to expand...
My thought on the self employed bit generally means if he will be working for that person directly, or as a contractor. Which then results in licensing.

Either way, it sounds like something good to put on the CV, so if the moneys right, then take it.
 
Mate,

It all sounds a bit Michael Mann...

Sorry if I'm being blunt but have you done the math and considered the variables?

What is the form of the material, where is the destination, who manages the "paperwork"? What insurance do YOU need?????

Do YOU take ownership, are you laundering..? Are you being set up????

Or am I a synical b'stard ???
 
Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciated!

I am off on a cp course at the begining of next year so I think that from what you good people have said may be the solution for the future. It's far from a full time gig just a couple of days a month when "The loads aren't large enough to make it worth paying several grand for a secure courier"

The only clearly defined things that he wants is someone to share the driving and when one pops into the services for a comfort break the vehicle not to be unattended as quite often he picks up gold in Germany. It may be a possible to claim to just be a driver untill my cp course? (Ways and means act?)

He is fairly switched on and varies the days, times and routes on which he does the runs and changes between the ferry and the Euro star regularly. He also has two cars and doesn't always take the same one. In all honesty knowing the bloke if it did go pear shaped the biggest challenge would probably be to stop him doing something stupid I don't think he would take being held up well!

As for if the moneys right it's about double my hourly rate for the doors! I know this is probably still less than most the experienced CP guys would accept but in todays job market a few hundred quid extra a month really wouldn't hurt!

Thanks again for the advice

Wookie
 
Pitchblack said:
Mate,

It all sounds a bit Michael Mann...

Sorry if I'm being blunt but have you done the math and considered the variables?

What is the form of the material, where is the destination, who manages the "paperwork"? What insurance do YOU need?????

Do YOU take ownership, are you laundering..? Are you being set up????

Or am I a synical b'stard ???
Click to expand...


All very valid points,
The guy owns three large jewlers shops and also a small workshop that makes custom pieces of jewlery that I know of and have been able to check he is the owner of so I am sure he is on the level.
As for the rest no idea they would certainly have to be looked into before doing anything.
 
If he does pay you as self employed, Look into getting insurance. Because if something does go tits up, he would probably put the blame on you to recover some of his money.
 
If its a private job then I recommend that you do it and keep it private.If the agreement is between 2 party's keep it that way.
My main concern would be putting 100kg of gold in the boot of a car.
 
Googles playing up on my work computer so I can't check, but how much is 100kg of gold worth? I have no idea on the value of gold right now, but I'd seriously look into the risk level.

Two blokes in a normal car sat on a pile of gold. Sounds like a Fook up waiting to happen.
 
Again, what are you needed for?
To safeguard the client or to protect the gold?
I did 7 years with cash in transit and gold deliver services for Securitas and they had armored vehicles, special equiped bags and uniformed guards just to make the insurance! Any individual that is ok in the head believes that life goes before values, not all but sane people do..
And really if this person is collecting (gold) security awareness dont say to much here people might find out things.
Now have anyone ever been robbed with a coca cola can NO, the robbers uses knifes and guns..So what can you really do?
Protect the gold not really, (unless its from some drunk bastard on the street that just takes the opportunity, And he can actually selfguard his on life by handle over the gods when asked to do so..cooperate and normaly things dont go all bad.

Now I think he needs support or someone that is (assisting him) it gives a certian feeling to be safe and if that is what he is after (like many clients) just go for it..
But please understand what can you really do?

Money transporting business is with bags that can destroy the money.
Gold and diamonds is not destroyed by colorisation..
When you do fight back that is when things go wrong.
Dont get me wrong I am all for fighting back and make it hard for them, but then you should be packing the same as they so its on equal level

Good Luck
Hawk
 
West0 said:
Googles playing up on my work computer so I can't check, but how much is 100kg of gold worth? I have no idea on the value of gold right now, but I'd seriously look into the risk level.

Two blokes in a normal car sat on a pile of gold. Sounds like a Fook up waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

PM me with your chosen routes, description of car, and timings please.
any chance of your first run being before christmas, :cool::cool:
Just asking out of interest, no alterior motive at all, Honest. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Oddjob said:
PM me with your chosen routes, description of car, and timings please.
any chance of your first run being before christmas, :cool::cool:
Just asking out of interest, no alterior motive at all, Honest. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I'd listen to Oddjob if I was you. His knowledge and advice is worth its weight in gold.....
 
you are sayimng germany,does he wants you to escort him and the gold in germany?
if so the use of guns is common.second are you entitlet to work in germany,and 3rd have you got international insurance.
I am pointing these out,cause if you get caught without any of these they will make a show ! you not being german.And the german border police love attention.
 
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