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Harder i train.

martinscott

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#1
Morning everyone .The problem I have is that the more i train the smaller i seem to get.Upper body that is, no funny remarks thanks.I have been training about 8 weeks now ,when i started was about 16 st am now down to 14 4 but problem is doing weights but upper body shrinking.I am following a routine with the weights but am not hundred percent about my diet .I am eating loads vegies and chicken etc but cant eat anymore .Any thoughts whats going wrong.:):cool:
 

Sas

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#2
Morning then, nothing wrong with losing mass during the first month or 3. Just means you're losing body fat. To start building mass I would suggest using a protiene supplement boosted with creatine and or amino acids. There are various good products around, but do speak to a trainer about the how and when plus tailoring your routines to enhance muscle growth. Oh, and please don't be tempted by substances taken through injection. Normally does more harm than good!

Persevere my friend!
Sas
 

martinscott

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#3
Morning then, nothing wrong with losing mass during the first month or 3. Just means you're losing body fat. To start building mass I would suggest using a protiene supplement boosted with creatine and or amino acids. There are various good products around, but do speak to a trainer about the how and when plus tailoring your routines to enhance muscle growth. Oh, and please don't be tempted by substances taken through injection. Normally does more harm than good!

Persevere my friend!
Sas
Thanks 4 that Sas ,cutting out bread and lots dairy good thing is it.Am training with a mad polish guy built like proverb sh_t house building wieght steady just look so small how was.
 

K9PrivateSecurity

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#4
Don't cut out bread and lots of dairy unless you are deliberately shredding fat, to build muscle you need to load your body with a high protein and adequate calorie intake, fuel up before workouts with a carb and protein based medium meal or shake 1-2 hours before you train and include a banana to fight lactic acid and a caffeine based drink for stimulation 0-1 hours pre-workout, train for a max of 60 mins, any longer becomes catabolic, train body parts to complete exhaustion, post-workout you have a crucial 60 min anabolic window to replenish your body with protein, minerals and nutrients to repair and build the muscle you have just exercised, get a whey protein shake down your neck asap after your last rep and have another banana or for example a couple of jaffa cakes for a carb hit, vitamin C is also recommended at this point to combat post-workout cortisol, the key is to intake 30g protein every 3 hours, 6-7 times a day, you can achieve this with a combination of food/shakes, keep carbs and calories high when building muscle, consume medium carbs and cals for maintenance once you level out, only cut back on carbs and cals to low when shredding fat; Train Hard - Die Hard.
 
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12345

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#5
Hi Martin,

Its all a numbers game mate. Someone better informed will give you better advice but from what i understand you need 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass just to maintain weight.
So for example if you are 185lbs to maintain your weight you need 185 g of protein per day. If you want to increase size and build muscle mass you need more protein.

So as you say your loosing size, if you get the correct amount of protein inside you, you should stabilize and keep the gains. Once this happens then you can build from there.

Hope this helps,
Best of luck
12345
 

martinscott

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#6
Hi Martin,

Its all a numbers game mate. Someone better informed will give you better advice but from what i understand you need 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass just to maintain weight.
So for example if you are 185lbs to maintain your weight you need 185 g of protein per day. If you want to increase size and build muscle mass you need more protein.

So as you say your loosing size, if you get the correct amount of protein inside you, you should stabilize and keep the gains. Once this happens then you can build from there.

Hope this helps,
Best of luck
12345
Yeh cheers 12345 I want to build some bulk ,don't get me wrong don't want to be no arnie but just build more upper body bulk,maybe like Sas said prob due to fact knocking the fat off.
Don't want to push my luck here guys but what is a good exercise for lower back lumber region for strenghten muscles .
Cheers guys
 

12345

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#7
Yeh cheers 12345 I want to build some bulk ,don't get me wrong don't want to be no arnie but just build more upper body bulk,maybe like Sas said prob due to fact knocking the fat off.
Don't want to push my luck here guys but what is a good exercise for lower back lumber region for strenghten muscles .
Cheers guys
Hi mate,
Best back excecises in my opinion:

Deadlift
Pullups
Any row movement eg bent over bar bell row, one arm dumbell row etc
and Straight arm pullovers.

Try 3 sets of 8 -12 of each with enough weight that just allows you to get the reps in, and see what results you get.

As with all weight training, there is no secret formula, its trial and error as all people are different, what works for one person might not work for another.
80% is diet and 20% is training

Best of luck
12345
 

ste999s

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#10
Morning everyone .The problem I have is that the more i train the smaller i seem to get.Upper body that is, no funny remarks thanks.I have been training about 8 weeks now ,when i started was about 16 st am now down to 14 4 but problem is doing weights but upper body shrinking.I am following a routine with the weights but am not hundred percent about my diet .I am eating loads vegies and chicken etc but cant eat anymore .Any thoughts whats going wrong.:):cool:
protein,protein protein. this is what feeds your muscle. you need plenty of it. supplement your diet with protein drinks. muscles will not grow without it. take one to bed with you. wake up in the night and have it, go back to sleep.
 

Scab

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#11
Aside what others have said: Over training?

Are you having enough time between workouts for the muscles to recover and repair? If you still have notable post exercise pain when going into your next workout you are probably overdoing it.
 

J20

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#12
Was just gonna reply you maybe over training and not getting enough recovery time, or not eating enough, being that you wont need to cut/diet to extreme and cut out carbs completely if your not competing tbh, so as well as loosing weight you are loosing muscle too... Scab beat me to it.
It takes a muscle 48 hours to recover from intense exercise, even if you are sore or have DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) you can train the same muscle as long as its 48 hours even if its sore its ok to train it :).
For lower back you can do cable rows, upright seated row machine, use the V handle for pull downs and you could also use dead lifts. If you are trying to taper so your back to get the classic V look then I suggest you try wide grip pull ups/chins and up right barbell rows, wide grip lat pull downs and reverse grip ones.
 
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Oddjob

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#13
Is size so important MartinScott, isn't strength, power and flexibility of greater benefit to us.
2 of the fittest most powerful men I've worked and fought with, were a tour cyclist and climber, neither of them were of any noticeable size, but christ could they have a row and a tear up.
 

tapmaster

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#14
I would suggest that you incorporate some heavy squats below parallel, deadlifting and benchpress, into your program. The major muscle groups especially the legs is what improves size and strength.

Tapmaster
 

J20

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#15
Is size so important MartinScott, isn't strength, power and flexibility of greater benefit to us.
2 of the fittest most powerful men I've worked and fought with, were a tour cyclist and climber, neither of them were of any noticeable size, but christ could they have a row and a tear up.
Very true about strength being a mixture - power strength, and speed strength. You train for both in reality, depending on the sport you adapt the training accordingly. Flexibility is good to a certain extent but being over flexible can sometimes cause more harm than good, ie cause injuries. Tour cyclists have excellent lower body strength and climbers have excellent upper body strength, and their lifting to bodyweight ratio usually is very good 1RM, both have excellent lactate resilience because they have trained their cv systems to be far more efficient again that word again - adaptation, therefore use their strength and power very fast, as their body can efficiently use the CV system and their weight is very low, they wont tire very easily, and they have an advantage with a high percentage of muscle.
 

J20

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#16
I would suggest that you incorporate some heavy squats below parallel, deadlifting and benchpress, into your program. The major muscle groups especially the legs is what improves size and strength.

Tapmaster
I am going to play devils advocate here and say why do below parallel squats, or proper squats for strength when you can do partials and add more weight on for strength - because thats is what you are trying to achieve.
(when you see most athletes/sports persons do you see then using the full squat position when playing their sport or the position of a partial squat - just to get you thinking, how does a goal keeper stand, what what position do you run in - think about how your legs bend in what joints...another one is hope skip and jump)
When you jump you start off in a partial squat position, if you were trying to jump decently, there are arguments for and against this thinking that partials are preferred.

You can also equalise and balance out the muscle growth by incorporating box squats for the ham strings, again you can add more weight thus being suitable for strength training.

Just make sure your technique is decent before you go putting 7 or 8 plates aside, you may laugh but if your disc pops out of your back when your trying to get the bar back in the rack cause its too heavy you wont be laughing then. Its all about technique :p
 
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J20

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#17
My argument for carrying out full squats would be - that whilst you are in the partial squat position, once you have executed the squat from a standing start off the rack, your knee joint will be at its weakest. Therefore the knee joint is more susceptible for injury and crucial ligament damage especially if you are not experience or do not have anyone to spot you if it starts going wrong. Carrying out a full squat gives you extra support to your knee joints, because you are building up the muscle and helping to strengthen that joint.

If you can do a full squat below parallel with good technique - no heel rolling, no pronation of the knee or foot, no rolled back going down or coming up, no over stressed wrists, elbows that are vertical to the floor and not at 45 degrees when you lift (chicken wings)...plus many more little things that could cause a big problem if you do it wrong. Then full squats are fantastic for training, and should be part of your training routine as you use several muscle groups all working in conjunction with one another and the ratios of balance it quite decent.

On a more lighter note im off to bed...
 
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martinscott

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#18
Is size so important MartinScott, isn't strength, power and flexibility of greater benefit to us.
2 of the fittest most powerful men I've worked and fought with, were a tour cyclist and climber, neither of them were of any noticeable size, but christ could they have a row and a tear up.
ThAnks Oddjob,your probably right about the size issue and until I star working won't be an issue but at 6 ft 1 being slight on size from a p-ssed up punters perspective propably does not cut much of an obstacle when is kicking off.I only say about the size issue because everyone advocates the full on get out with force approach as last resort but have the size and tecnique to deal with said situation counts or maybe looking at this from the wrong perspective .
Also thanks Scab and J20 I prob am over training when I look at these posts,inveriably doing 4 days on and 1 day off but training hard ,and yes I would say do still hurt from the previous session but thought that was no pain no gain .
Thanks
Martin
 

Oddjob

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#19
ThAnks Oddjob,your probably right about the size issue and until I star working won't be an issue but at 6 ft 1 being slight on size from a p-ssed up punters perspective propably does not cut much of an obstacle when is kicking off.I only say about the size issue because everyone advocates the full on get out with force approach as last resort but have the size and tecnique to deal with said situation counts or maybe looking at this from the wrong perspective .
Also thanks Scab and J20 I prob am over training when I look at these posts,inveriably doing 4 days on and 1 day off but training hard ,and yes I would say do still hurt from the previous session but thought that was no pain no gain .
Thanks
Martin
MartinScott,
Just as a counter point and not to bang on too much.
At my heaviest I've been 20st, at my fittest 14st, so I'm far from slight.
But size is nothing when it comes to a fight, not really.
For a rational, lucid man, with little knowledge of the mechanics of conflict, well a tough looking man mountain is a good visual deterent, that would generally work 95% of the time, and with a reasoned verbal arguement, most situations can be moved on with little fuss.
But size counts for very little in the full flow of combat, or when confronted by those with a little knowledge and experience of a street fight, or equally as dangerous; a crack/coke head so high and agitated that pain means nothing and the boundaries of danger or harm have left
their conscience long ago.
Size, strength, and power are a poor second to knowledge, experience and good technique in a suitable fighting art.
With the right training and skills you can control, and end most physical conflicts without the excitement, and fuss from the use of full weighted force.

Have a look at the discussions on martial arts via the search bar.
I personally like Aikido for your role, (courtesyof a 5'4'' Japanese Aikido master, weighing in at 10st, who could make me take to involuntary flight at will)
but I have trained in many style from boxing through Judo, wrestling, wing chun,etc.
I am currently learning Hapkido to get the best use of a cane/Umbrella.
In reality lifting and manipulating the movement of real size, unevenly weighted bodies requires a rather different tecnique to that of moving perfectly balanced weights or machinery.
Listen what you're doing is great, it will keep you fit and strong, but it's a thin veneer of the weaponary you can develope within your body.
Good luck and remember to stretch and warm up well, also develope an intellect to counterbalance those bulging guns.
 

martinscott

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#20
MartinScott,
Just as a counter point and not to bang on too much.
At my heaviest I've been 20st, at my fittest 14st, so I'm far from slight.
But size is nothing when it comes to a fight, not really.
For a rational, lucid man, with little knowledge of the mechanics of conflict, well a tough looking man mountain is a good visual deterent, that would generally work 95% of the time, and with a reasoned verbal arguement, most situations can be moved on with little fuss.
But size counts for very little in the full flow of combat, or when confronted by those with a little knowledge and experience of a street fight, or equally as dangerous; a crack/coke head so high and agitated that pain means nothing and the boundaries of danger or harm have left
their conscience long ago.
Size, strength, and power are a poor second to knowledge, experience and good technique in a suitable fighting art.
With the right training and skills you can control, and end most physical conflicts without the excitement, and fuss from the use of full weighted force.

Have a look at the discussions on martial arts via the search bar.
I personally like Aikido for your role, (courtesyof a 5'4'' Japanese Aikido master, weighing in at 10st, who could make me take to involuntary flight at will)
but I have trained in many style from boxing through Judo, wrestling, wing chun,etc.
I am currently learning Hapkido to get the best use of a cane/Umbrella.
In reality lifting and manipulating the movement of real size, unevenly weighted bodies requires a rather different tecnique to that of moving perfectly balanced weights or machinery.
Listen what you're doing is great, it will keep you fit and strong, but it's a thin veneer of the weaponary you can develope within your body.
Good luck and remember to stretch and warm up well, also develope an intellect to counterbalance those bulging guns.
Thanks Oddjob ,enough said I guess am prob fussing over nothing ,technique speaks volumes .
 
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