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Harder i train.

tapmaster

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#21
I am going to play devils advocate here and say why do below parallel squats, or proper squats for strength when you can do partials and add more weight on for strength - because thats is what you are trying to achieve.
(when you see most athletes/sports persons do you see then using the full squat position when playing their sport or the position of a partial squat - just to get you thinking, how does a goal keeper stand, what what position do you run in - think about how your legs bend in what joints...another one is hope skip and jump)
When you jump you start off in a partial squat position, if you were trying to jump decently, there are arguments for and against this thinking that partials are preferred.

You can also equalise and balance out the muscle growth by incorporating box squats for the ham strings, again you can add more weight thus being suitable for strength training.

Just make sure your technique is decent before you go putting 7 or 8 plates aside, you may laugh but if your disc pops out of your back when your trying to get the bar back in the rack cause its too heavy you wont be laughing then. Its all about technique :p
You can play devils advocate as much as you like. It's nothing to me what so ever. I have made many posts in the gym section where I have advocate box squats and other techniques that if anyone knows about the diet and exercise advise that I have given would see that my advise is sound. The only other advise that I would give would be to have a complete physical before starting any exercise program.

I squat like many other use weightlifting shoes to squat. I use a shoe called Do Win and have used them a few months and would not ever go back to wearing trainers or something like this to lift in. There is no ankle roll and you describe.

I train at a powerlifting gym where the owner and coach is ex Royal Marine and is World Powerlifting Champion. We do something called box squats. If you google box squats or you can find it on youtube. Ano Turtianen and Louie Simmons and many weightlifters use squats and box squats to improve their core strength. A bodybuilder or weightlifter will never ever grow (for the long term) until he adds squats to his routine.

The only way around this is of course to have a meeting with the syringe. In order for the body to release and subsequently make more testosterone naturally the legs have to be trained. When you see a guy with a massive upper body and tooth pick legs then one wonders why would you build a house on toothpics.

I can say this as I am 45 years old and never had any knee, back injuries etc. I can box squat 220 kg. I know many many other who do the same and have never been hurt. The Ex Royal Marine at the gym can do over 1,000 pounds and is one of a few men in the WORLD who have done so. I'm happy to give you his name and you will see that what I am saying is sound.

There is a man that is referred to as Dr "Squat" Fred C Hatfield has advocate the use of squats and improving their strength and size.

If partial reps are your thing, then good luck to you. But if you want to do them properly you have to study with a coach who can teach you to do lifting properly.

Tapmaster
 
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J20

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#22
You can play devils advocate as much as you like. It's nothing to me what so ever. I have made many posts in the gym section where I have advocate box squats and other techniques that if anyone knows about the diet and exercise advise that I have given would see that my advise is sound. The only other advise that I would give would be to have a complete physical before starting any exercise program.

I squat like many other use weightlifting shoes to squat. I use a shoe called Do Win and have used them a few months and would not ever go back to wearing trainers or something like this to lift in. There is no ankle roll and you describe.

I train at a powerlifting gym where the owner and coach is ex Royal Marine and is World Powerlifting Champion. We do something called box squats. If you google box squats or you can find it on youtube. Ano Turtianen and Louie Simmons and many weightlifters use squats and box squats to improve their core strength. A bodybuilder or weightlifter will never ever grow (for the long term) until he adds squats to his routine.

The only way around this is of course to have a meeting with the syringe. In order for the body to release and subsequently make more testosterone naturally the legs have to be trained. When you see a guy with a massive upper body and tooth pick legs then one wonders why would you build a house on toothpics.

I can say this as I am 45 years old and never had any knee, back injuries etc. I can box squat 220 kg. I know many many other who do the same and have never been hurt. The Ex Royal Marine at the gym can do over 1,000 pounds and is one of a few men in the WORLD who have done so. I'm happy to give you his name and you will see that what I am saying is sound.

There is a man that is referred to as Dr "Squat" Fred C Hatfield has advocate the use of squats and improving their strength and size.

If partial reps are your thing, then good luck to you. But if you want to do them properly you have to study with a coach who can teach you to do lifting properly.

Tapmaster
I am a coach lol I do teach people to lift properly... I am also at Uni improving what I know.

It wasnt a knock on full squats or what you had posted for the record. I prefer full squats personally, I have posted why. I was just putting a scientific approach to it, as you will know there are argument for and against. Scientifically proven ones and opinions for and against will always be there.

Not sure if you read my post correctly because I did put about box squats... yes i do them too and use propper shoes anyhow. Not going to argue I cant be arsed. Maybe you should lighten up a bit.
 
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tapmaster

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#23
No attempt on my part to start a debate on this matter as everyone will have their opinion. But in the end its a matter of what is safer. I have found this article from bodybuilding.com and believe that it supports the theory of the full squat. Bodybuilding.com - You Don't Know Squat! - AnimalPak There is no debating one fact. That fact is SQUATS DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE TIN! THEY WORK!

Tapmaster
 

J20

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#24
No attempt on my part to start a debate on this matter as everyone will have their opinion. But in the end its a matter of what is safer. I have found this article from bodybuilding.com and believe that it supports the theory of the full squat. Bodybuilding.com - You Don't Know Squat! - AnimalPak There is no debating one fact. That fact is SQUATS DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE TIN! THEY WORK!

Tapmaster
Bodybuilding.com is a forum just like this one, and has no formal journal or scientific evidence to back what they say up. Anyone can go on there and say squats work and spiel off numerous big words etc and say why, its an opinion. Its like me quoting from a post from a member of this forum and putting it in a essay and referencing it, it doesn't hold up scientifically, therefore could not be used to back up what they are saying.

Don't take this as a dig, as its not. I know full squats work I can give you evidential scientific journals that prove that it is beneficial, also i can show you scientific papers which say that partials are more beneficial, it was what i was trying to get across, not to cause an argument about whether they work or not, they work fact. Which is better for what purpose was the point of my original post.
 
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edh

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#26
depends on your routine , and rest m8
5x5 heavy , major bodypart with rest between each of 36hrs to allow for growth
eg back, biceps / chest ,triceps legs /front and back of... always warm up n stretch,
cool down and stretch after routine
if your trg for cardio /endurance 4 x 12-15 reps little rest between each set
good luck
 

Fraggle

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#27
Morning everyone .The problem I have is that the more i train the smaller i seem to get.Upper body that is, no funny remarks thanks.I have been training about 8 weeks now ,when i started was about 16 st am now down to 14 4 but problem is doing weights but upper body shrinking.I am following a routine with the weights but am not hundred percent about my diet .I am eating loads vegies and chicken etc but cant eat anymore .Any thoughts whats going wrong.:):cool:
Martin, if you're doing separate cardio and strenght training, the cardio could be burning your muscle.

Everyones training requirements/goals are different. Mine are that I want a strong upper body and core, but above all else solid cardio. I've found that kettlebell circuits are awesome for this, as the CV system is hammered at the same time as the strength training is done. A very effective high rep cardio circuit with KBs can be done in 20 mins. If you push hard enough it hurts more than your most painful BFT!:D I only spend another 15-20 mins doing "normal" bodybuilding type lifts afterwards.

Like I said, this won't suit everyone, but for people in busy jobs, it potentially offers an extreme level of fitness and negates the need for gym membership etc.

If you want a decent KB workout let me know. If it's not what you're looking for, fair enough. All I know is that it works for me.

Regards

Fraggle
 

martinscott

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#28
Martin, if you're doing separate cardio and strenght training, the cardio could be burning your muscle.

Everyones training requirements/goals are different. Mine are that I want a strong upper body and core, but above all else solid cardio. I've found that kettlebell circuits are awesome for this, as the CV system is hammered at the same time as the strength training is done. A very effective high rep cardio circuit with KBs can be done in 20 mins. If you push hard enough it hurts more than your most painful BFT!:D I only spend another 15-20 mins doing "normal" bodybuilding type lifts afterwards.

Like I said, this won't suit everyone, but for people in busy jobs, it potentially offers an extreme level of fitness and negates the need for gym membership etc.

If you want a decent KB workout let me know. If it's not what you're looking for, fair enough. All I know is that it works for me.

Regards

Fraggle
Yeh Fraggle kettle bell seems interesting and what routine do you adopt in a typical session:confused:
 

Fraggle

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#29
I've been working on this one for a while. It is meant to simulate Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competitions. It's equally useful though for those looking for functional fitness in a short space of time. I've never had trouble building muscle, but found that I put more on while using this or similar KB workouts, compared to when I did separate cadrio and weights. Once you know it, it's dead simple and not as complicated as it sounds!
If you do start training with a KB, take it very easy at first. Learn the lifts/swings well before you try any routines.
If you give it a go, good luck!!!
========================================================================
One set is
20 x swings
10 x press-ups
12 x snatches (6 with each arm)
10 x press-ups

For swings, follow this advice exactly
YouTube - The Kettlebell Swing

For snatches, this vid is good, but I find it better to place the KB down on the floor between each rep. It is far more difficult to rip the KB up from the ground each time, than it is to use momentum. Lifting from the ground each time simulates more accurately the explosiveness needed for BJJ sweeps, reversals etc.
YouTube - Master the Kettlebell Snatch

For press-ups, these will make the workout more “fun”.
YouTube - Personal Trainer Luxembourg | T push up Tim Goodwin


The complete workout is
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next, and set to set. No rest!

When transitioning from KB exercises to press-ups, do not let any part of your body, except your hands and feet, touch the floor. Place the KB down. Keep your feet where they are and walk forward on your hands into the press-up position, do the press-ups, then walk back up on your hands until you are standing again. Try to keep your legs straight. This is all part of the workout.

Notes
1/ Commit this routine to memory before you start. You need to go from one exercise to the next without reading this!
2/ Start with a 16Kg KB and reduce the number of reps eg. 5 x swings and 6 x snatches (3 with each arm), 5 x press-ups. Increase the number of reps as you develop strength.
3/ Have a stopwatch/timer ready. Time the workout from start to finish and record to measure your progress. Look at the time at the end of a set and rest for exactly the one minute before starting the next.
4/ Have a bucket ready to puke in to. I’m not joking.
5/ No matter how tired you are, do not rest until the end of the four sets. This routine only works if you put in 100% between the rest periods. No matter how knackered you are, once the minute rest is up, pick up the KB and start swinging again. Do not however sacrifice technique to gain speed.
6/ 4 x sets, back to back, is meant to simulate a complete BJJ match. The one minute rest develops quick recovery time for comps. There's no point in going running or cycling etc, unless you plan to run or cycle around your opponent in a fight.
7/ This really hurts. If you don’t have the nuts to do it properly, go jogging or play badminton or something.
8/ The whole thing (with reduced reps) takes approx fifteen minutes. After fifteen minutes, not only is your cardio done, but most of your strength training is done too. Don’t waste time doing cardio then separate strength training – the cardio will eat your muscle. The two don’t mix. With this type of training, you get a cardio workout by working the muscles which you are developing.
9/ Press-ups were included because they work opposing muscle groups to those used by the KB exercises. A few press-ups should not, on their own, cause shortage of breath. When doing press-ups in this routine, your “KB muscles” get to rest while your heart is taxed by having to push blood to the “press-up muscles” too. It is the intention of this workout to strain your CV system by forcing your heart and lungs to simultaneously supply oxygen to the “KB muscles”, the “press-up muscles”, and the muscles used to support the body when transitioning between the two types of exercise.
10/ Do any other strength training you wish AFTER this routine, or on another day. You can split it up ie after one workout do back and biceps, after another do shoulders and triceps etc so you do your whole body over a week.
11/ Rest until the soreness goes between workouts. Eventually you should be able to do this every other day. Don't be surprised if it takes you a week or more to recover at first.
12/ Did I mention that this routine really hurts?
========================================================================
 

Fraggle

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#30
Got the OCD kicking in now.

The complete workout is
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next, and set to set. No rest!
should read

The complete workout is
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next, and set to set. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next, and set to set. No rest!
One minute rest (timed)
4 x sets, moving straight from one exercise to the next, and set to set. No rest!


In a nutshell, you only rest for the two individual minutes. The four sets are done with no rest.
 

risky

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#31
sorry if you already know this but if your training intensively every day then your body wont have time to recover, especially if you've just started out
your muscles dont build during training, they build afterwards through rest, diet and mainly deep sleep
 

protect-yourself

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#33
Never any harm in taking a break for a few days sometimes. I dont think your weight loss is anything to worry about. 16 stone seems a bit heavy anyhow.
 

nonkinetic

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#34
physique is more diet than training....you are losing weight and that is, initially what you want.

you can work out as hard as you want but make no visible gains if your diet is mcdonalds supplemented by KFC and Baskin Robbins.

also are you working out or doing cheat reps?
if you want size you need to do two things.

go to failure and eat fish.
 

maximuszx12

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#35
Enjoyed the Xmas break. Only trained twice. Now well rested and feel like I could rip the arse end of a T-Rex at the moment.
Recuperation is what you will always need to make and maintain gains and avoid injury.

Gym open tomorrow, cannot wait. Good times ahead.

max.
 

maximuszx12

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#37
Missing an f off........my post that is. :)

Will make it a New Years resolution OJ.

Unless I am walking in Wales. :)

max
 

tapmaster

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#38
I've been off training for about 6 weeks now and I'm heading back tomorrow. I am a bit nervous about returning as I know I lost a lot of size and strength and will have to start again at ground zero. I know that I needed the time off as I was hitting it pretty hard for about 4 months. First day back!!!! Squats!!!! Thats right, going to jump into the deep end with some deep squats. What a way to start back from being off!!!

Tapmaster
 

rob169069

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#39
Guys im trying to get rid of fat aswell as put mass on, how does 1 hr of hard and fast circuit trg twice a week work with a building routine ?????
 
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