Heat Exhaustion - when to stop?

L

littlewoman

Longterm Registered User
Hopefully we all know the signs of heat exhaustion and heat stroke and what we should do if we start feeling the symptoms ourself or see them in a colleague. But there are some occasions that doing what is best for us isn't the main priority. We may need to continue with work, be running a marathon or yomping up a mountain as part as some army exercise.

So is it possible to judge when you absolutely have to stop, what are the symptoms we might feel in ourself or see in a colleague/ team-mate that signal that whatever goal you have has to be put on hold otherwise you're going to do yourself some long-term damage or die?
 
if you stop sweating then that's a good sign, dizzy, irritated, thirst...

However, if you're on special forces selection you're taught to ignore those weaknesses. Its someone else's job to watch you.
 
Falklan said:
if you stop sweating then that's a good sign, dizzy, irritated, thirst...

However, if you're on special forces selection you're taught to ignore those weaknesses. Its someone else's job to watch you.
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Really....................................?
 
very good question.

in practice - the answer is tricky, IMO.

injuries due to heat or cold will mess up your thinking. your brain is not working at its best level. hence the truth is that YOU are not the best person to spot when things are going wrong.

HEAT - i remember a time quite a few years ago when i used to run at lunchtimes in the desert in California. it got pretty hot in the middle of the day. definitely over 100 degrees F. but quite a few guys would do the runs - you do get acclimated ... up to a point. there was one day i was not too careful about consuming enough liquids before the run. I came back feeling pretty bad. took a look at myself in the mirror and my face was seriously red (not from sunburn). after a minute or two - things did not get better. at that point I knew I'd been pretty stupid. so I went and threw myself in a cold shower immediately, and stayed there for a good 20 minutes. after that - lots of liquids and electrolytes. that did the trick and i was OK. but feeling like I was an idiot for letting myself get into that state.
the point is that it's really not easy to make good judgments when your body is working hard - it's hard to spot the telltale signs that something is going wrong. it really pays to have a partner with you when you are exposed to extreme environments. someone who can keep an eye on you.

the reverse also happened to me several times. hypothermia is also a condition that creeps up on you gradually. i got into doing ocean swimming - again in California. the water is quite cold, and I was training myself to do a 2-mile swim along the coast. i remember coming out of the swim one afternoon and half-drowning myself during the exit from the surf. Currents and waves are tricky things, and it takes time to learn how to judge them and handle them. there is definitely a real art to getting through the surf zone at an ocean beach - especially when the waves are high. i managed to crawl up on the beach, spit out some water, and think about what happened. stupid - gradual hypothermia. swimming for too long on the cold ocean had dulled my mind. i needed to assess the situation when I turned and swam back to the shore - watch the waves more carefully. but i was too careless and the results were not good.

so my experience is that these conditions of heat stroke and hypothermia are quite tricky - if you are the kind of person who does push yourself, then your mental condition can be a threat to you. it's better to have a partner with you who can make an independent assessment. otherwise, give yourself some breaks when you stop the activity and take time to really ask yourself "how am i doing - really?".

KL
 
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dodger said:
I think this was the quote for that comment, and the one that I agreed with....
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ah, ok .. well for those that disagreed with it. You're usually safe on selection to push through all your barriers. Because all though its dangerous there's still a duty of care. So many are afraid to stop and ask for help as they may get taken off the selection. It's a hard situation to be in.

Your oppo or mate with you is probably also on his chin strap and confused.. typically checkpoints have lads who look you over, but if you don't make it then i guess that's just the way it is.

with things like heat and cold, it snowballs and obviously gets worse if you're working or continually exposed to the elements.
 
Lack of sweating could mean heat stroke or that you have rehydrated. It is not a good indication to rely on. Core temp is what we used in the navy.
 
newbiemedic said:
Lack of sweating could mean heat stroke or that you have rehydrated. It is not a good indication to rely on. Core temp is what we used in the navy.
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I would think that if you were exercising you would collapse before you stopped sweating, or is that wrong.
Measuring core temperature is all very well once you get to the stage of stopping and getting medical attention but you can't really stick a thermometer up your bum whilst running a marathon can you? :)

You see, all the information I can find is about clinical diagnosis and what should be done once the symptoms show. What I'm after is how far can you push before you really have to stop. It seems that there's no easy answer to this, no clear indication on when you really have to stop.

I got heat exhaustion earlier in the year because I was pushing myself hard and I felt bad for days afterwards, so perhaps I pushed a little too hard, on the other hand I'm still alive. What if I'd pushed myself a little harder? If it is primarily the extent of the exercise rather than being in hot conditions, will pushing until you collapse kill you or do permanent damage or will the body stop you before its too late?
 
roger that.

the problem is that everyone handles the stress of heat differently. some people can push through while other may collapse with only minor heat cramps.
thankfully we can acclimize a little.

sailors just dont hydrate well. It is the same outside the navy as well. people will drink a whole canteen all at once thinking that they are hydrated even though they piss out most of that water. the body cannot absorb more than a quart per hour.

good questions little woman...that is why I just joined this outfit. it looks like there are good discussions and some good learning going on here.
 
littlewoman said:
Measuring core temperature is all very well once you get to the stage of stopping and getting medical attention but you can't really stick a thermometer up your bum whilst running a marathon can you? :)
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No that would be impractical, which is why all real athletes always run with a thermometer in the bum :)

I'm absolutely no medic, just want to say I have been learned that stop sweating is an advanced sign of heat exhaustion which normally (not always) comes before collapse, and once you suffered one advanced heat exhaustion you will get it easyer in the future.
If you do collapse you risk death or permanent damage.
 
the guy who I have seen who came closest to real heat injury was a young guy, maybe early 20's. he was with a group of college students. hiking around in the hot desert in summer. was told to drink liquids. did not. didn't realize the seriousness of avoiding the advice.

when we got to him - he was really "under the weather". i didn't have a way to check his core temp. his skin was dry. he was red. and he clearly wasn't making a lot of sense verbally - jumbled thoughts, slow speech, some nausea (but no vomiting).

we got him in the shade. did not have any ice. poured water over some cloths and put that on his head and neck. sat him down. got him to drink water and electrolytes.

i'd say that it took him a good 45-60 mins to come back to looking better. not perfect by any stretch, but a bit better. able to talk and make sense of what we said. in retrospect, that long recovery time tells me that he was getting in fairly serious shape. but the point is - that he was not running, or even jogging. just walking around and hiking, and ignoring the warning signs from his own body. and NOT drinking any liquids.

so I don't think it's always easy to tell the onset of heat stroke just by one sign - like the cessation of sweating. and for individuals who are affected - you can definitely get into a downwards spiral pretty quickly. once your thoughts become confused - you are headed for a fatal outcome ... if you don't have a companion to set things straight.

KL
 
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Our medics taught us a little trick. 'Pinch the skin together on the upper part of your hand'. If you are well hydrated it should go back to normal within a second or so. The slower it relaxes the more dehydrated you are becoming. It is a useful indicator when tabbing your arse off or in a Hostile environment.

Remember you can suffer the effects of heat stroke and heat exhaustion in a cold climate as well as a humid or hot one when pushing your personal physical boundaries.

The use of dextrose tabs,multi vit/minerals as well as bananas, (Potassium) mars bars etc (Glucose) can help to keep your salts/minerals in check and allow your cells to reabsorb water and keep their balance, which aids their ability to function normally.

Oh, a bag of salty chips and a few pints of Guinness go a long way to remotivating your mind and body. That is if you end up passing one of those pub type things on your route. ;)

Just my two penneth.

max
 
maximuszx12 said:
Our medics taught us a little trick. 'Pinch the skin together on the upper part of your hand'. If you are well hydrated it should go back to normal within a second or so. The slower it relaxes the more dehydrated you are becoming. It is a useful indicator when tabbing your arse off or in a Hostile environment.
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That's a good indicator for dehydration but it is possible to get heat exhaustion even when you are well hydrated. Hydration helps the body cope with the heat but it doesn't work miracles, its still possible to be getting hotter than your body can cope with regardless of how much fluids are taken on at the correct rate.


Thanks for all the replies. It seems like the body is very good at giving us an amber light to say we're in difficulties but by the time we get the red light to say you absolutely must stop exercise/ get out of the heat, it may already be too late and you may have already done the damage.
 
Quote "Oh, a bag of salty chips and a few pints of Guinness go a long way to remotivating your mind and body. That is if you end up passing one of those pub type things on your route".

Well.... Max it sounds and looks as though you may have been on a 'particular' course..? I immediately recognise this advice and quote!!!!! and due to the size of the portions at this training depot during said process we all followed it to the 'T'... :)

CD
 
Littlewomen, totally agree but by the time the 'Red light' should come on, the individual probably won't be aware or be able to distinguish the problem themselves. It would be a 3rd party noticing (if you're lucky)
 
Carl Dowd said:
Quote "Oh, a bag of salty chips and a few pints of Guinness go a long way to remotivating your mind and body. That is if you end up passing one of those pub type things on your route".

Well.... Max it sounds and looks as though you may have been on a 'particular' course..? I immediately recognise this advice and quote!!!!! and due to the size of the portions at this training depot during said process we all followed it to the 'T'... :)

CD
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Hi Carl.
I am just an old Infantry STAB mate. Nothing more, nothing less.

max
 
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