Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Incident reporting technology

Taro

Full Registered User
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
16
Likes
0
#1
Hi everyone,

I work for a startup that's building a mobile app aiming to improve student nights out with a range of features. As well as venue listings and drink deals we'll be introducing a range of satefy features, one of which I'd love to get your thoughts on.

The feature will be a reporting feature in supported clubs & bars only, whereby users will be able to report harassment (or other incidents of concern) via the app to a delegated door supervisor, who will be alerted to the incident and provided details of what has happened, who has reported it and where in the venue they are located. The supervisor will then find the user, assess the case, and deal with it as they normally would.

The app will be launched city by city across the UK, with this feature trialled in only a few venues initially to see how it is used and whether its found to add value to both our users and the supervisors.

I'd be very interested to get your thoughts on the following:
  • Your thoughts on the overall concept, any concerns you would have, anything similar you're aware of in this space currently, any ideas you have for how we could improve it?
  • What is does the official SIA training suggest you should do in cases of harassment reports within venues? And to what extent is this advice typically followed in your experience?
  • Are all door supervisors SIA trained and licensed?

Thank you in advance!
 

MrBlonde

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
977
Likes
354
#2
Welcome to the forum
Interesting idea, here's my thoughts on it - I'm CP ('Bodyguard' as you're not from the industry) rather than DS, but looking after and protecting people is what we're really talking about here anyway, so:

What's the driver to get people to use the app, rather than just walking up to the DS and telling them there's a problem?
If it's a single button press, like some of the panic buttons on personal trackers we use in CP, that the pub or club sign up to agree they treat as an 'immediate priority action' then great, people will use it - it would be like having your own bodyguard on call :).
If they have to type text and submit, and then wait for the DS to finish dealing with all the other hassle they are having on the door or around the venue, then it won't get used and people will just go find someone to tell.

After the 30th wasted call of the night, DS are just going to start ignoring 'requests' meaning they might just miss something they really need to attend, then the injured app-user decides to sue because you or the club failed to do what they're supposed to, so how do you prevent that?

If the DS has to come find you in the throng of people then it adds delays, gives the threat being reported time to escalate what they're doing, or simply leave.

What's the driver for a club to sign up?
I guess they can advertise they're part of the scheme and your users will get priority treatment, but the Club Management supported by their security team have a duty of care to everyone equally; with the best will in the world, people will get pissed and use the app to 'settle arguments' because they get a DS on call. What happens if a DS responds to something like this and as a result of leaving their post someone gets seriously hurt and then sues the club?

Will it cause problems between Club Management and their DS?
I guess you'll make reports and stats available to the club relating to incidents reported there. It might be useful for detecting patterns but it could also drive a wedge between the boss and the DS - "why are we having so many incidents, you're not doing your job properly" - "why are there more incidents when Sam is on duty, he's obviously no good at the role so we'll get rid" etc
If there's an issue people are always quick to point the finger elsewhere and Management are never going to look at themselves or think it's because they don't have enough DS on duty, they'll just think they've got a crap team.

Will it just generate loads of crap reports from drunks who just want to sound-off because they can?
Everyone's judgement gets clouded when they've been drinking, so an incident that would normally come to nothing turns into the end of the world, that's one of the reasons DS are there in the first place, to deal with stuff like this and de-escalate situations before they get out of hand - adding in delays around using the app or responding to it, or giving people 'time to stew' and embellish an incident before reporting it will only make matters worse, and give the DS a bigger problem to deal with when they eventually do.
 

TMAC

Longterm Registered User
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,260
Likes
15
#3
Welcome to the forum
Interesting idea, here's my thoughts on it - I'm CP ('Bodyguard' as you're not from the industry) rather than DS, but looking after and protecting people is what we're really talking about here anyway, so:

What's the driver to get people to use the app, rather than just walking up to the DS and telling them there's a problem?
If it's a single button press, like some of the panic buttons on personal trackers we use in CP, that the pub or club sign up to agree they treat as an 'immediate priority action' then great, people will use it - it would be like having your own bodyguard on call :).
If they have to type text and submit, and then wait for the DS to finish dealing with all the other hassle they are having on the door or around the venue, then it won't get used and people will just go find someone to tell.

After the 30th wasted call of the night, DS are just going to start ignoring 'requests' meaning they might just miss something they really need to attend, then the injured app-user decides to sue because you or the club failed to do what they're supposed to, so how do you prevent that?

If the DS has to come find you in the throng of people then it adds delays, gives the threat being reported time to escalate what they're doing, or simply leave.

What's the driver for a club to sign up?
I guess they can advertise they're part of the scheme and your users will get priority treatment, but the Club Management supported by their security team have a duty of care to everyone equally; with the best will in the world, people will get pissed and use the app to 'settle arguments' because they get a DS on call. What happens if a DS responds to something like this and as a result of leaving their post someone gets seriously hurt and then sues the club?

Will it cause problems between Club Management and their DS?
I guess you'll make reports and stats available to the club relating to incidents reported there. It might be useful for detecting patterns but it could also drive a wedge between the boss and the DS - "why are we having so many incidents, you're not doing your job properly" - "why are there more incidents when Sam is on duty, he's obviously no good at the role so we'll get rid" etc
If there's an issue people are always quick to point the finger elsewhere and Management are never going to look at themselves or think it's because they don't have enough DS on duty, they'll just think they've got a crap team.

Will it just generate loads of crap reports from drunks who just want to sound-off because they can?
Everyone's judgement gets clouded when they've been drinking, so an incident that would normally come to nothing turns into the end of the world, that's one of the reasons DS are there in the first place, to deal with stuff like this and de-escalate situations before they get out of hand - adding in delays around using the app or responding to it, or giving people 'time to stew' and embellish an incident before reporting it will only make matters worse, and give the DS a bigger problem to deal with when they eventually do.
What he said, pretty much exactly....

Just because you can make an app for something doesn't mean it will be any good
 

Taro

Full Registered User
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
16
Likes
0
#4
Thanks MrBlonde for such a comprehensive response, your feedback is hugely useful at this early stage where we still have time to adapt the idea.

What's the driver to get people to use the app, rather than just walking up to the DS and telling them there's a problem?
If it's a single button press, like some of the panic buttons on personal trackers we use in CP, that the pub or club sign up to agree they treat as an 'immediate priority action' then great, people will use it - it would be like having your own bodyguard on call :).
If they have to type text and submit, and then wait for the DS to finish dealing with all the other hassle they are having on the door or around the venue, then it won't get used and people will just go find someone to tell.
The app will feature a lot more than just this reporting function and so will have multiple other drivers to use the app itself(apologies, I should have mentioned this in my intro). This is just one of several complimentary safety features we will offer our users and one that we need really feedback from DS's on.

It's certainly true that something like a panic button would be ideal in this scenario, but without the use of bluetooth and beacons, getting accurate indoor positioning is a huge challenge. Also while typing a description of the issue is likely going to deter users, giving the DS some context as to the issue is likely to be very helpful for them to know what to expect. We hope that the barrier users will face in describing their location and issue will mean that only more serious or genuine incidents are reported. If anyone could trigger a panic button instantly we feel we would be more likely to see a flurry of potentially non-genuine calls.

After the 30th wasted call of the night, DS are just going to start ignoring 'requests' meaning they might just miss something they really need to attend, then the injured app-user decides to sue because you or the club failed to do what they're supposed to, so how do you prevent that?
You're totally right here - if we get to the point of having 30 wasted calls in a night then the feature is likely dead. However, as I mentioned above if the barrier to use the feature is on the higher side then we would hope to get a very manageable number of reports in a night and weed out false requests by banning users from the feature or removing them from the venue. The priority will be to make clubbers nights safer, and give them the knowledge that even if they cant see a DS around they can be found and assisted.

If the DS has to come find you in the throng of people then it adds delays, gives the threat being reported time to escalate what they're doing, or simply leave.
Very true, where possible they will be advised to stand away from a crowd before reporting but this is certainly a risk.

What's the driver for a club to sign up?
I guess they can advertise they're part of the scheme and your users will get priority treatment, but the Club Management supported by their security team have a duty of care to everyone equally;
We dont necessarily see it as our users getting priority treatment, but just that they are empowered to report incidents in a way that they may not currently feel they can. If a girl is being harrassed by a guy in the club and there's no DS beside them we hope this is a huge benefit for them to being able to get assistance. As for the driver for the club, they would be able to be seen as a safer venue and will have the advantage that even if the DS misses an incident, the users can still make them aware of it. We will also prioritise them in our other more promotional features, and there will be zero cost to them for implementation.

with the best will in the world, people will get pissed and use the app to 'settle arguments' because they get a DS on call. What happens if a DS responds to something like this and as a result of leaving their post someone gets seriously hurt and then sues the club?
Absolutely, it's certainly open to abuse and all we can do to prevent this is take a hard line on users that abuse it. While it's possible a DS misses something serious by leaving their post, I think it may be equally likely that being alerted faster to an incident through the app could help save a life or prevent something escalating into something more serious, so there may be two ways to look at this.

Will it cause problems between Club Management and their DS?
I guess you'll make reports and stats available to the club relating to incidents reported there. It might be useful for detecting patterns but it could also drive a wedge between the boss and the DS - "why are we having so many incidents, you're not doing your job properly" - "why are there more incidents when Sam is on duty, he's obviously no good at the role so we'll get rid" etc
If there's an issue people are always quick to point the finger elsewhere and Management are never going to look at themselves or think it's because they don't have enough DS on duty, they'll just think they've got a crap team.
This is certainly an area we will have to be very careful with. Every management/DS relationship will be different I assume but we will be marketing the app as a technology to support their DS, not to replace their DS. While the scenario you suggest may well occur we will be doing all we can to prevent that with management, DS will be a crucal part of this features success and it will only work if they are happy to use it and feel like it helps them do their job rather than hinders them.

Will it just generate loads of crap reports from drunks who just want to sound-off because they can?
It may well do, and if it does again it will have failed and be dropped. But we hope it's generally used only in more serious scenarios to assist the DS's (who as you said are rarely staffed in enough numbers) - they cant be expected to see everything and are not always fortunate to be beside people when an incident happens. With technology, this can change and as well as the usual club supervision the DS will be alerted to incidents as they happen, which could benefit everyone if its implemented well.

MrBlonde - you raised some fantastic points and your concerns are exactly the type of things we need to hear at this stage. If you (or a DS) have any other comments or suggestions on how we can make this work for DS's we'd love to hear it. Ultimately our goal of protecting customers and keeping them safe on a night out is aligned, so if we can work out ways to avoid the potential pitfalls that this feature could face, we hope it may even become a bit of a game changer in venue safety.
 

Ivan67

Longterm Registered User
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,924
Likes
1,480
#5
Reminds me of all those people who work in the industry that claim they would be Lost Without their Smart Phone.

Its really simple, in human intelligence, nothing will be more efficient and effective than humans, how the information is passed along dictates response time frame, no person can type and update, whilst another reads it faster than one person calling it over the radio whilst others listen without having to take their eyes off their tasking.

Seems like just another reason for a person to look at their phone.
 

Visioneer

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
6,782
Likes
376
#6
'Phones seem to be getting 'smarter' in inverse proportion to the people that rely on them to record every mundane facet of their tedious lives. I love 'Tech', I've made my living from it for the best part of my adult life.

I also appreciate its limitations and hazards.

Relying on a smartphone for anything 'mission critical' is trouble waiting to happen.

Yes, the phone / app, is reliable, until it crashes / battery dies.

They're reliant on network coverage, and traffic. (Your 'mission critical' call, message, data etc, carries exactly the same priority as some kid downloading a ringtone. If the networks busy / out, you're ferked.)

Your phone is 'secure' ? Yeah, right, of course it is.

The tech to jam your / any 'phones within a given area isn't exactly difficult / expensive. Illegal, possibly, but then the people that want to do it aren't known for following the rules. (In some cases, they write them.)

V
 

TMAC

Longterm Registered User
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,260
Likes
15
#7
Mission Critical....reminds me of a radio ad that Three mobile ran here.

It was basically the CEO of the Jellybean Factory talking about how three provide 'mission critical' services.....

It's ****ing Jellybeans dude!!!!
 
Top Bottom