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Job refused

billy1000

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#1
I've read a few posts on here about CP licence holders being turned down for work (DS) and thought that will never happen to me.

Well sods law struck, applied for a job, the company was happy at the interview stage, no problems with my quals or experience. Produced my licence as part of the checks, only to be told 'We don't accept DS licence holders, it looks bad.'

Just wondering has anyone with a DS licence had any 'hostility' when its come to applying for a Retail/Site security job? or have I been unlucky?

all the best

Billy
 

andy13978

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#2
Hi Billy,

I have worked in retail roles as a manager and supervisor, 99% of the teams I've worked with have been DS licenced.

Did they explain why it looked bad?

Most members of the public would not notice which licence the holder was wearing.
unless it was poked in their faces.

On the back foot I have been turned down by an Event/Door company for showing my CP licence at the interview and was given the no reason.

I heard from a friend who got me the interview that the reason I did not get the job was because I had a CP licence and they were worried I would just not turn up if I was offered a one day CP role.


Andy
 

KNASHER

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#3
Over experience is classed as the same as inexperience ^^ They are aware of your inabilities if you have no experience and frightened of you abilities if you are over experienced ! The same applies in all walks of life and all career choices. (in my experience)

NASH..
 

tissot1308

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#4
had much the same problem went to work at a major retailer showed the security manager my ds licence his reply was that the asked for a sg and as did not have the sg licence i was told i would not be allowed to work in any of there stores. Despite me explaining that the ds licence coverd me for static / retail. His reply its there property and the can chose who they have on it. So i went and done the sg course got the licence and was redeployed back to that retailer who was more than happy to have me as i now had a sg licence.
 

Scab

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#5
As well as some employers are aware of the lack of training crossover where the licenses do cover each other's sectors:

DS does not cover a day's worth of security guarding knowledge.

CP does not cover licensing law.

So how can a DS which is an entirely different context of work cover the SG license? And how can a person work a licensed venue with no knowledge of licensing law if CP licensed?

I've heard of the DS license holders not being wanted in place of a security guard license holder before and some of it has been put down to the perceptions; imagine your local supermarket being reported in the media as using 'bouncers'.

Many entirely disagree with the license crossovers in most cases, for the reasons stated above about the training. Sorry chaps.
 

billy1000

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#6
Interesting point about the media aspect, thats how I took the company policy about not using DS licence holders. It may be their policy or a condition of the contract they have and the clients specifications.

Valid point about the training differences between DS and SG, may be the answer is one course to cover both DS and SG with equal emphasis on both areas.
 

astonfatty

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#7
I have met many managers/company owners who will not consider applications for positions if the SIA badge holder is not holding a Licence specific to the position he/she is applying for unless he/she has a plausible explanation for wanting/needing to change sectors.

I have worked 99% as DS and I have only had DS Licences, so I have not needed to jump sectors much. But DS badge is not going to get you into Retail easily Billy, if you really are keen on 'Retail' maybe you will need a new course/badge when your DS runs out. But I think if you come across in a job interview as well balanced and your references/history are okay then most Retail/Static sites will employ you Billy with a 'DS' licence once you explain your reasons.

Just keep looking pal eventually you will find an open minded employer.
 
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Scab

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#8
It's not about being open minded, its about an employer recognising that differences in training and him not having received training they want him to have to put him into the role they want to fill.
 

FredB

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#9
Exactly
To get a DS license ..it takes only a week training if not days , to get an allround SG license it takes months , the advantage is they can put you basicaly anywhere.
My SG training was 14 months having to go 3 days every week to school and work 2-3 days for the practical/ experience.
Total cost of school/teachers, 14 exams including First Aid and 1st response officer .. 8500 euro ,including monthly salary that's around 33.000 euro (not paid by me thankgod).
Along comes a guy with a DS license taken in a week and thinks he can take the job without the correct training..
I agree with people needing to have the correct license for the job they are going to be hired for , there's a reason why different jobs need different licenses and people without the proper training get refused.
Nothing personaly but if it were that easy i would have taken only the DS training too and not have bothered to go through the total SG course
 

FredB

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#11
What course what that Fred??? And what country?
This is the advanced SG training in the Netherlands
You can get the same license doing it from books and have only the 5 exams needed to get a license( 3 practical and 2 theoretical - security/law) and it probly cost will be around 2000 euro if your doing it at home and from books only.
But it will exclude exams for language, math ,first aid and the whole range.

In holland the minimum requirement for being a SG ,is an SG course.
A DS license won't get you object or other security jobs either.

It's easy realy we have colored passes , Grey is for allround SG guards and with it you can do and take any job in the security industry
Blue is DS and is limited to jobs as a DS and maybe some private property jobs.
Same with Green pas (PI) (or was it yellow.. can't remember)only valid for security jobs as investigator and the like.
It's the law that only with certain licenses you can get certain jobs .. without having the correct license.. you just can't get the job , or maybe if you are lucky in the more private sector.

If i would have a DS certificate only now and will fill in a request for a grey pass ( wich is requested at the local policestation and signed by the head of the police force and reviewed there)
They would deny my request since i do not have the proper diploma's to work in that area of security.
Long story and i could go on for a while.. but you get the idea :)

Again ...nothing personal or against anyone wanting to have a job and wish everyone finding the job they want.
But sounds fair enough to me that there are minimum requirements to get certain jobs.
 
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astonfatty

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#12
It's not about being open minded, its about an employer recognising that differences in training and him not having received training they want him to have to put him into the role they want to fill.
I am afraid being open minded is what 99% of everything in life is about Scab.

And if a person meets the SIA licence requirements of the job role he/she applies for, then if he/she is in need of more training to bridge the gap between SIA sectors, in this case we are talking DS-SG, the 'Open minded employer' will provide the training to the person who has the ability to adapt and learn for their new job role.

And that new employee might not have been the most qualified at the interview stage but the most memorable and suitable, based on other things more than Specific-SIA-Sector-Qualifications. :D

And I am not looking to change sectors myself so this is not anything other than objective opinion in relation to Billy's original post, maybe have a little proof read before you reply 'off-topic' in posts Fred.

And 'Fred B' I am not sure what you are on about, 33,000 euros of training you have had and 14 months at school 3 days a week to learn how to do Static/SG work, sheesh sounds fun. :eek:

Maybe you should of done the DS 1 week course Fred, DS pays more than SG work usually, only school needed is the school of life though, and thats a lifetime course bro. (free though for the most part)

;)
 
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Scab

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#13
I am afraid being open minded is what 99% of everything in life is about Scab.

I've got an open mind. One where I can read someone's post, see what they are saying and think "Hmm, he may have a point" if I agree with it or not, and then not reach for the Groan button because I simply happen to be too ignorant to think about others reasons and keep an open mind...

And if a person meets the SIA licence requirements of the job role he/she applies for, then if he/she is in need of more training to bridge the gap between SIA sectors, in this case we are talking DS-SG, the 'Open minded employer' will provide the training to the person who has the ability to adapt and learn for their new job role.

Would you employ a CP licensed guy who knows nothing about licensing law at your venue?

Would you employ a night guard who is DS licensed who knows nothing about patrolling?




And that new employee might not have been the most qualified at the interview stage but the most memorable and suitable, based on other things more than Specific-SIA-Sector-Qualifications. :D

Sub standard and inadequate standards mean little. Of course, if you like to work to minimums, that is your own issue.

And I am not looking to change sectors myself so this is not anything other than objective opinion in relation to Billy's original post, maybe have a little proof read before you reply 'off-topic' in posts Fred.

There is nothing objective about being open minded. Objective is looking at why others may have refused him and providing reasons, as I did.


And 'Fred B' I am not sure what you are on about, 33,000 euros of training you have had and 14 months at school 3 days a week to learn how to do Static/SG work, sheesh sounds fun. :eek:

He is on about a country with standards that piss all over the UK and SIA pitiful excuse for minimums.

Maybe you should of done the DS 1 week course Fred, DS pays more than SG work usually, only school needed is the school of life though, and thats a lifetime course bro. (free though for the most part)

So you endorse the short easy option, minimum standard, as opposed to someone who knows more about security on day one of his job than any minimum standard trained person who attends a one week course?

Its thrilling to know that a desire for standards are alive and well...



;)
My red.

Seems your opinion of standards matches your opinion that pay for DS can be around the £7 mark because its an easy job. Well that is open minded. How cares about valuing standards and decent pay, so long as its an easy job.
 

FredB

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#14
And i talk too much lol :D
Sometimes i get so into things i could write a book ;) ..
I know i know.. i should more watch myself and be a little more quiet on the forums , i just like to give my personal opinions sometimes even tho i am aware it's not always a good thing
 

astonfatty

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#15
You come across as livid and poorly informed Scab lol, maybe you get £7 per hour (which is a training wage) for door work (pmsl) but not be bro and not good DS's they earn upwards of £10 p/hr for DS and £15+ for Head DS.

Yes I have taken on CP's for DS work a few times as they were nice guys and they were able to grasp the concept of door work in quick time, as (experienced CP's) usually have vast training and experience which enables them to ADAPT to new jobs in different sectors and for you believe that an experienced CP could not work as DS is just laughable.

The only CP's I worked with in DS work had valid reasons to not do CP work anymore and all the CP's we took on were all over 40 years old and within a few days on the job training the CP's we had were well spoken, calm, measured and focused. And that why you interviews people for a job Scab to look for these skills which cant be taught. Like the many skills you clearly miss just from the hostile and blind way you write.

1. I think if you believe experienced CP's would not be able to grasp the concept of how a Nightclub/casino etc runs with on the job training then you must be poorly informed and very short sighted Scab lol, and my work history is on this site and it is mostly in the mangement of DS's, so jog on little scab. :D

2. Objective and open minded go hand in hand Scab any half-wise man knows this.

3. And I do not preach about SIA sectors I do not work in Scab, but as far as DS goes the SIA course intends to give a DS the licence to start DS work, the DS course does not and cannot prepare them for the levels of pyschological, physical and practical knwoledge needed to do DS work to a competent level or better still high level.

DS work is learnt from working, full stop. (And you would know this if you had done it)

Anyway scab its been a pleasure writing to you, but to be honest you can have the last post/comment as I am sure you will add to your 1600+ posts and write some more stool for us all to read.

But I will not bother replying again to you again little dude unless you wise-up, you are clearly looking to argue and be rude, which just makes you come across to me as proper dim.

Cheers. :D
 
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Scab

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#16
You come across as livid and poorly informed Scab lol, maybe you get £7 per hour (which is a training wage) for door work (pmsl) but not be bro and not good DS's they earn upwards of £10 p/hr for DS and £15+ for Head DS.

Livid and poorly informed? Wow, thats impressive. Not only do I explain why some employers want the right badge relative to training, but I also provide a reason based upon some's perceptions in a manner which relates nothing about a state of mind at all.

The seven an hour was the wage you were advertising on here, to bump your memory.



Yes I have taken on CP's for DS work a few times as they were nice guys and they were able to grasp the concept of door work in quick time, as (experienced CP's) usually have vast training and experience which enables them to ADAPT to new jobs.

Does it allow them to suddenly know licensing law? Because so long as Ive carried a CP license and done CP work, no new information has just popped into my head out of nowhere.


1. I think if you believe experienced CP's would not be able to grasp the concept of how a Nightclub/casino etc runs with on the job training then you must be poorly informed and very short sighted Scab lol, and my work history is on this site and it is mostly in the mangement of DS's, so jog on little scab. :D

Pay attention: Licensing law. Here, I'll write it slowly for you: L i c e n s i n g l a w. CPO's are not trained in it and its a fundamental for a DS, don't you think; as someone who's clearly well informed?


2. Objective and open minded go hand in hand Scab any half-wise man knows this.

Well, that explains how you managed to completely miss the point on my initial reply at least.

3. And I do not preach about SIA sectors I do not work in Scab, but as far as DS goes the SIA course intends to give a DS the licence to start DS work, the DS course does not and cannot prepare them for the levels of pyschological, physical and practical knwoledge needed to do DS work to a competent level or better still high level.

But any idiot can work out someone with more than four days training is going to be more prepared and informed.

DS work is learnt from working, full stop. (And you would know this if you had done it)

How do you know I have not? Supposition of knowledge. Baseless assumptions. Classic failure to remain objective. Thanks for playing!

Anyway scab its been a pleasure lol, writing to you, but to be honest you can have the last post as I am sure you will add to your 1600+ posts and write some more stool for us al to read in this post, but I will not bother replying to you again little dude, you are clearly looking to argue and be rude, which when you are so short-sighted I will not be able to help you, as you choose not to think after reading before you reply.

Cheers. :D
Really? Have you actually read what I've said even in a slightly remotely objective manner? Maybe if you had you would not have rejected factual and considered reasoning as to why certain licenses are preferred.

Do you know what a Biff is by any chance?
 

astonfatty

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#17
You ask a lot of questions for a man who thinks he knows so much scab lol.

:D

Jog on little Scab.

Jog on.

pmsl
 
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Scab

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#18
Thinks I knows so much?

Are you going to correct me? Please do, I have yet to see anything other than drivel from you. Nothing objective and you do not have the open mind you say life is 99% about.

Troll.
 

james1

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#19
stand down chaps, disagreeing is one thing, the handbags arent necessary...

aston- i think what scab is getting at when he asks questions is something designed to make you think about what he has said, he isnt asking because he doesnt know....thats what i got from reading it without bias anyway ; ).

j.
 
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