Krav Maga

Scab said:
I'll have a mooch about and see if I can get any recommendations for you.
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Cheers ill give it a bash but I do feel it will have a long way to go to beat judo boxing and Muay Thai. But as I say I always encorage cross training!

I am a firm believer that its finding what works for the individual! What works for me won't nessicerily work for another. I personally find simple hard punches, knees, elbows, hip throws, head butts, and a few simple strangles cover most bases.
 
Scab said:
And I still cannot see how a system with its primary context of application being a weight classed, rules bound sport can compare to (any) system built from the ground up as a fighting system encompassing the best bits picked from the martial arts!
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Because of the training methods. In combat sports such as Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, Wrestling etc they apply their art against full resistance, day in day out. Nothing is theoretical, no one stands at the side doing scenarios saying "well in real life I'd do this or that", you just get in the ring or on the mat and you either can or you can't, you will or you won't.

The other kind of arts you speak of, and I'm not picking on Krav Maga at all - a lot of people in the JKD, Kali, "self defence" arts are very guilty of this - there's too much theory about how lethal everything is....but you never get to see it. I appreciate the reasons for that, it's not rational to train with live knives or to disable someone just to prove a point.

However, that leaves you with a clear distinction - one set of people know that it works for them, one set of people hope that it works for them. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I know which one I prefer, but each to their own.
 
AMCMW said:
Because of the training methods. In combat sports such as Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, Wrestling etc they apply their art against full resistance, day in day out. Nothing is theoretical, no one stands at the side doing scenarios saying "well in real life I'd do this or that", you just get in the ring or on the mat and you either can or you can't, you will or you won't.
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Yet Krav Maga remains to date the most widely trained system in law enforcement, military and security across the world where it has sailed through pressure testing time and again?

Yes, I agree there is only so much you can do with armour on to go full contact, but then at the same time it does not take a doctorate to work out that three or more knee's to someone's groin is going to impact on their ability to function. Everything ahead of that can be practised as realistically as you like. Knives is a particularly easy one now with tools like the shock knife. You will know if you've missed the defence...
 
Scab said:
Yet Krav Maga remains to date the most widely trained system in law enforcement, military and security across the world where it has sailed through pressure testing time and again?
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It's always the most common response, lots of people do it so therefore it must be right. The most widely practiced fighting system in the world is Tae Kwon Do, followed by Wing Chun, both of which are just as ludicrous as the next if it ever came down to an average person defending their life. 95% of martial arts is bullshit, but bullshit is what people want, so bullshit sells.

Despite my previous sarcasm I don't think Krav Maga is bullshit. In my time training in it I think it had some very valid areas to it, certainly it does tend to focus on simple, major movements which is what your brain and body need when under adrenal surge. I don't rate some parts of it and, from why I have experienced, it's far too focussed on impressive demonstrations done against complaint training partners, and it is exactly that type of training that will get people hurt. However, I'd say all martial arts are guilty of that. Kudos to Krav Maga for it's success, though it would be naive for anyone of us to deny that this is in no small part to the fact that it has been bankrolled by a multi-billion dollar marketing campaign from the Jewish community in the United States. But hey, if you've got it then flaunt it.
 
That many people are doing it makes it right is not the point I am making. You might have noted there that point about pressure testing? Many people are doing it because it stands up under pressure. Because no other modern system has proven to be as easy to learn (as you state) quickly and to a practicable level. That is one of the prime drives behind it.

I myself do not rate some areas of it either. For a system which has some incredibly intuitive defences, it has some very counter intuitive and utterly unnatural feeling ones too.

Also agree that there are far too many focusing on how sexy it can look. There is altogether too much bullshit surrounding KM on the whole. But then when you consider one of the larger organisations, Commando Krav Maga is run by a fraud and is Ju Jutsu with some basic elements of Krav Maga thrown in, selling three day instructor courses with no experience needed; what should be expect?
 
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Fair one.

What's your opinion on this guy? From his bio, which I'm taking on face value, he has a very solid background both in terms of military and Krav Maga experience. Now, I appreciate that what he's putting on here is a demonstration, but would you agree that some of the elements of this demonstration are absolutely laughable? Do you think this shows the art in a bad light?

1,500 People watching Roy Elghanayan's Krav Maga LIVE! - YouTube
 
Good demonstration. People are tending to be the 'very good' bad guy though. I want to see a demonstration where the person doing maybe has some padding on though and gets pushed about a bit. No one grabs you and stops. No one puts their hands around your throat and waits. That always frustrates me.

Definitely some of it is there for dramatic effect, I've never seen some of those aerial break falls utilised anywhere in KM...

I'd not say it shows in a BAD light. Just not a favourable one. The uninitiated buy into this and think that's what they will learn. Then dick head instructors pop up claiming to teach it.
 
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I know a lad who paid loads to go on a pump "instructor" course he had no fighting experience and still wonders why he gets filled in! Mind I have no sympathy if your stupid enough to think after a short course you'll be able to take 10 blokes apart like segal in the movies you kinda deserve to be ripped off! :)
 
In my opinion, KM is hugely overrated. Yes I have trained in it and no it wasn't at a Mickey Mouse school either.


Heno
 
Heno said:
In my opinion, KM is hugely overrated. Yes I have trained in it and no it wasn't at a Mickey Mouse school either.


Heno
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Would be nice if you explained why you thought it was overrated... Something a little more constructive like to add to the discussion. Who did you train with, out of interest?
 
monaco firstly I hope you tried the Krav Maga class out and have your own honest reviews.

I've been active in the martial arts for 20 years, although I've spent this long in the martial arts at no point do i believe my experience or words to be any greater or better than anyone else's, only my opinion.

I'm not going to bore you too much but I've tried a lot of martial arts and defence systems and have found things I love and hate within them. I've done Krav Maga for around 8 years and honestly enjoy it and to a small degree have put into use. I've studied judo and love it.... but the way in which my experience separates the two is this. one is competitive with a body of rules and then the other is only really limited by the style in which you move and fight. I've enjoyed my time training Krav Maga and hope to enjoy more but.... just like the times and happenings of the world change so do I. I'm currently in my late 20's and I'm very active in the area of martial arts. i know i won't always be able to keep the pace I'm going at the moment and with this in mind.... maybe Krav Maga won't always be in my graces but its defiantly helped me so far.

I'm not trying to tell you Krav Maga is the best thing out there, because for me it isn't. For me its combining various elements from different systems and styles that work for you. more importantly is the person teaching you the material. judge for yourself but certainly give it a try!
 
If you're looking for Krav Maga training it's important to be as critical as possible about the effectiveness of the training you receive. If you're not being properly pressure tested or experiencing scenario based training then you may as well be attending a boxercise class. If you can't perform a technique consistently, under pressure, then it is not effective as a form of self defence.

I train under Amit Porat, Ravid Schimko and Lior Offenbach (International Military Krav Maga, Israel). This training is the real deal: no nonsense, tough, functional and professional Krav Maga training. They are the standard to meet and a good starting point if you're looking for robust Krav Maga training.
 
Both preceding comments are very good. I train at a gym that teaches Krav, as well as MMA and Filipino techniques, as well as tactical skills. I specialize in the Filipino weapon-based system ... but I would do more from the other systems if I had the extra time.

I would say that the Krav system is very practical. It appeals to beginning students because they feel they are "getting somewhere" in a quick amount of time. I think that's a strong point for the Israelis - they obviously realized that they needed to train men and women in a practical amount of time and have them operational. Krav will get you there!

I do especially agree with ESDA that techniques need to be tested under stress. Good schools should do that. You'll know it's happening because the instructor will turn up the volume of some raucous music, make you do a lot of quick calisthenics to raise your heart rate, and then BOOM! you have to execute the technique correctly. Very good approach.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Basically, the students who are sincere and work on their techniques every day at home are the ones who do well. Those who only come to class a couple of times a week make much slower progress and often get stuck on some plateau of skill level. But isn't that true of just about everything in life? :)

cheers,
KL
 
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Whilst training KM a while back the instructor (an honest chap) advised that IDF DT trainers are now training soldiers in Muay Thai as all the fancy techniques associated with KM are useless if the soldier can't deliver a basic strike with force and effectively.

The moral of the story seems to be if you are going to train Krav Maga, do boxing.
 
interesting comment.
the instructors that teach KM at my gym actually have a lot of experience with Muay Thai, and some of them have fought in Thailand. So yeah, I'd say that the Muay Thai techniques are getting mixed in with the KM. The way they do this is - in addition to the pure KM classes they also teach a kickboxing workshop ... where people get more experience with basic boxing and kicking. And that's where the Muay Thai gets in.

I've heard that KM gyms tend to vary from one location to another because they are influenced by whatever martial arts training the instructor has had. And would agree with you that the Muay Thai has a lot of good techniques.

KL
 
Dublad said:
Whilst training KM a while back the instructor (an honest chap) advised that IDF DT trainers are now training soldiers in Muay Thai as all the fancy techniques associated with KM are useless if the soldier can't deliver a basic strike with force and effectively....
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It seems he is punch drunk; that is totally incorrect. There are NO fancy techniques in KM; if you are being taught these, it isn't KM. Km in the military works with and around weapons, there are no weapons in Muay Thai. Whats is IDF DT? Defensive Techniques? Just curious.

M
 
Nah he knows his stuff and has recently been training with IDF trainers. He isn't trying to sell a Muay Thai class so don't see why he'd make that comment unless it was something he'd been told. As for fancy techniques, I meant the gun/knife ninja shizzle. And I'm aware there's no weapons in Muay Thai. I've trained KM at different schools and like it but I still mostly box. I don't rate KM higher than any other system and don't view it as the answer to all questions as some seem to.

DT is defensive tactics.
 
Hi Guys,
started this thread, Judo going forward going gently, had no response from the krava club that was going to set up near me, going forward gently, ribs allways hurt, might be my age but sorry judo rules. stay safe.
 
Dublad said:
Nah he knows his stuff and has recently been training with IDF trainers. He isn't trying to sell a Muay Thai class so don't see why he'd make that comment unless it was something he'd been told. As for fancy techniques, I meant the gun/knife ninja shizzle. And I'm aware there's no weapons in Muay Thai. I've trained KM at different schools and like it but I still mostly box. I don't rate KM higher than any other system and don't view it as the answer to all questions as some seem to.

DT is defensive tactics.
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What do you mean "has recently been training with IDF trainers"?

I know that the IDF sometimes compliments with other arts, but this is may be in the form of a lesson or mini-seminar and is to compliment not replace KM.

KM is in the deigned doctrine and as you may or may not know, military doctrine is not easily changed.

I can also tell you that military KM (not commercial) is purpose specific and Muay Thai has no answers to what military DT requires.

If your friend that know his stuff really told you what you posted then you really should not listen to him as he really does not know much about the topic.
M
 
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Getting to the conclusion now that KM is a damaged brand. The amount of rubbish spewed about it constantly shows that.
 
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