Personally speaking, and I may well be wrong.
I can not see Krav holding comps. How would one get points? Krav is a full contact, "in and out" type of combat. It
would be over in a MAXIMUM of 25-30 seconds.
You could have a comp on who has the best demo or most realistic methods of dealing with threats I guess.
In answer to your question, weight means nothing.
The only time I've been at a disadvantage (for about 3-5 seconds) was on the ground with my chest on the floor. But then there's a method to get out of that situation.
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its only a weight classed,rules bound sport on the tv and the olympics.judo originated as a self defence martial art for a smaller practioner to be able to destroy and handle an opponent much bigger,which happens in the clubs training scab.With regards to picking the best bits,the problem that happens from this is similar to what is happening in MMA,jack of all trades,master of none
Krav is a bit more finely tuned than the MMA stuff cutting about today, MMA being almost a specific system of its own now.
Eh no, a Krav maga practitioner would have a very hard time trying to administer their techniques against a well trained MMA fighter with BJJ skils, krav maga is all well and good in a demo or compliant partner but real life is different and most fights turn into scuffles and brawls within seconds regardless of fancy technique. 7 years doing doors thought me that if nothing else.
Comparing KM to Judo, at a glance for Judo to be applied you have to be close - Krav Maga is all about getting close and utilising the tools with maximum potential for damage.
That is of course presuming the person trained in Judo doesn't hip throw you or uchimata your ass (which on the street means broken bones for you) before you can apply your death moves.
The same applies to krav maga going up against a good striker.
The downside is these things cannot be tested outside of real life; being the 'good' bad guy still does not let anyone realistically compare the application of full contact techniques.
True, therefore you can't presume anything about krav maga, my own opinion based on training in various martial arts and krav maga would be that krav maga if it was trained in regularly and consistently will offer good self defence skills against untrained aggressors but if someone trained in krav maga went up against a well trained MMA/No Gi Grappler I think they would have a very difficult time trying to dominate them.
Bjj is great for grappling on the floor but judo controls the vertical grapple. In real life the ground is the last place you want to be! If you can strike or throw you way out then that's far better than pulling guard and going for a triangle.
Of course Danny, hence the reason I said it would compliment Judo. Judo and BJJ work great together, add in MMA striking and it is as close to a complete art that exists in my opinion....oh and wrestling too for single leg and double leg take downs. Many many fights go to the ground if someone is not knocked out in the first 30 to 60 seconds.
Eh no, a Krav maga practitioner would have a very hard time trying to administer their techniques against a well trained MMA fighter with BJJ skils, krav maga is all well and good in a demo or compliant partner but real life is different and most fights turn into scuffles and brawls within seconds regardless of fancy technique. 7 years doing doors thought me that if nothing else.
Really? How many KM guys have you seen working in real life applying their stuff to an aggressor? How much Krav have you seen that's genuine? Because this whole thing about Krav Maga being only good against 'compliant' training partners is kinda lost on the FACT that Krav Maga is singularly the most practised system among law enforcement, military and security agencies worldwide who regularly use it against people who are trained, high, drunk or whatever else you can think of.
But then if you think know better than many such bodies from all over the planet; you crack on mate.
Not only that, but it seems more and more people I speak to who claim knowledge of Krav Maga have not even scratched the surface of its training regimen; because so many classes are set up to cash in on the name and soften it because not a lot of people like to train hard which means not a lot of money to be made.
That is of course presuming the person trained in Judo doesn't hip throw you or uchimata your ass (which on the street means broken bones for you) before you can apply your death moves. The same applies to krav maga going up against a good striker.
Have you actually seen any Krav Maga being practised? Flip that around. How are you going to hip throw the Krav Maga guy while they are bursting at you and delivering knees from your groin? You automatically assume the other actor in the scenario is going to have the upper hand. That is not objective; that's just an assumption that you will always come up against someone better trained than you. The same arguement could be applied to ANY system of combatives OR martial arts. So what is your point exactly?
True, therefore you can't presume anything about krav maga, my own opinion based on training in various martial arts and krav maga would be that krav maga if it was trained in regularly and consistently will offer good self defence skills against untrained aggressors but if someone trained in krav maga went up against a well trained MMA/No Gi Grappler I think they would have a very difficult time trying to dominate them.
Your last point is a big 'what if' which could be applied to ANY system you could think to name. There's always someone out there better than you. There's always someone a little fitter. There is always someone who's going to have a little more luck than you one day. So what? What about this mythical guy who's off his face on drugs than can feel no pain?
The points you make are not specific to any system. To aim them at one does nothing for the cause of objectivity.
Scab, you've some neck to talk about objectivity, you've been going on about how superior KM is to everything else yet you have nothing to back it up.
Do a web search on how widely used in official capacities Krav Maga is across the world. Job done.
And please address my other major point about your post: You said nothing special that cannot be applied to ANYONE practising ANY martial art of system; yet you are applying it specifically to one system.
I'm not here to boast or claim I know it all, I dont...no one does but I have worked doors for years, I have trained in various martial arts and KM in the military and in my opinion krav maga is over rated, mostly by people who haven't got much exposure to other systems many of which are superior to KM.
I've been training in various martial arts systems for nearly eighteen years and beein the security industry for twelve now; so yes, I have too.
There's no doubting you'd be better off knowing KM than nothing but it's not the be all and end all of self defence.
Never said it was. I said it was the fastest to learn to an applicable level with simple, and effective defences; many taken from other martial arts. However as I said earlier there's a few in there that feel unnatural to me too.
There are a few useful "dirty" tricks in it that may be useful against average joe but in my experience a person who has trained in KM alone will have a hard time in a confrontation against a good MMA practitioner.
What experience is that? I'll ask again; have you seen Krav Maga being used for real? Or even any decent training in it? And how does your experience overrule the VAST number of reports of people using their Krav Maga, even in part to good effect?
As I said, I've done doors in busy night clubs for over 7 years, I've seen and been involved in more than my fair share of confrontations and I have seen what does and doesn't work first hand, night after night.
Me too. My experience clearly differs from yours. There's more than one point of view you know.
Just to elaborate, I never said KM was useless,
Actually you for all practical purposes; did:
"krav maga is all well and good in a demo or compliant partner "
it just isn't all it's cracked up to be by the KM fan boys...who many times have a vested interest in promoting it, i.e. 2 day seminars that are supposed to teach people how to defend themselves, at a hefty cost may I add. The reality is most people wouldn't learn how to throw a punch in 2 days let alone a rounded system of self defence.
Just a note on one of your sentences scab,
"what are you going to do when a KM guy is bursting at you throwing knees at your groin"
there are several things I could do, one would be to clinch him and knee his face into mush, I'm not going to just stand there and let him knee me in the balls, then I could go for a leg, take him to the ground control him with BJJ and punch/elbow his head into a bloody mess. Very easily done if a person knows what they're doing.
We don't have to argue about it; the crux of your point was a BJJ or MMA guy would give a KM guy a run for their money. Well anyone trained to a better standard in anything is going to give someone a run for their money. And that Krav Maga is simple is the whole point behind it. Simple techniques and applications taken from anywhere and everywhere - bearing in mind the founder; Imi Lichtenfield was an accomplished martial artist and boxer himself with lots of operational experience and having to defend himself from a young age in the ghettos.
But this is what I am saying about the misrepresentation and misunderstanding of Krav Maga. People think it's some magical black art of ninjaery awesome because of all the 'ultimate self defence' and 'defend yourself in one weekend' rubbish thrown about about it. But it's not. It's how it's (supposed) to be trained that sets it apart.
Remember when BJJ first hit the limelight? Same thing. Ultimate method of self defence. Sure. Unless you faced multiple attackers (for one point!) or someone was bigger, stronger, faster... etc... See where I am going with that?
Also, not to be petty, but Swedish SOG also using it add's fuel to my point earlier about its uptake worldwide owing to its effectiveness.
That's a ridiculous thing to say, most MMA athletes are very proficient in BJJ, which would be in my opinion superior to Judo as a grappling art. Also, the top level rounded MMA fighters would easily hold their own with top level fighters from boxing, Thai boxing and any other art you want to throw in their.
Your opinion of MMA gives an insight into your ignorance of the skill involved in it.
i agree with a lot you've said reference the 'real' world applications of a martial art on this thread today,il explain a bit more about the the above statement.ive too worked a long time in the security world including the doors and also cross trained in judo/bjj and mma since 1996.MMA and BJJ are great arts,but judo i found was greater standing as in the real world,your wearing a gi (which is heavy and similar to clothing) and you dont want to be on your back going for the triangle when his mates using you as a football or hes biting into your nuts.As for boxing,a mma fighter trains a number of ranges/submissions/escapes/sweeps etc over 3-5 classes a week,a boxer simply trains his timing to knock someone out 3-5 times a week.why take hime down with a single leg to then waste time and your own safety G n p'ing when you can do it stood up and more legally safe.