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Navy seals selection harder than sas or any other SF selection??

boropete

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#1
Just started reading Damn Few by rorke denver (one of the seals in act of valour) opening to it he says BUDS is the hardest military selection anywhere,harder than army special forces,air force pararescue,british SAS and Dutch KCT.
Thoughts everyone?
 

Scab

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#2
To use an analogy that is close to home - CP courses are all the best. SF unit selections are always the hardest...
 

boropete

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#3
being ex-uk infantry,and spoke to a few friends who've done the UKSF grinder i'm bias towards UK selection scab being the hardest due to its solitary nature,just wondered what others thought
 

Scab

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#4
Well yes there is basis for comparison. Just look up the length of BUDS (or are we talking DEVGRU?) and compare it to UKSF selection. From what I know of BUDS and selection buds is way shorter and less demanding by far. Ranger School is harder than BUDS in all aspects except for Hell Week which is just one week of BUDS.
 

littlewoman

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#5
Hard in what way? I don't know much about any of them, but if you only select people that are tough physically but lacking in skills then the result is flawed. Its no good being able to tab 100miles with a 50kg bergan in a day if your navigation is crap and you end up in the wrong place.
 

keeniemeenieman

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#7
Just started reading Damn Few by rorke denver (one of the seals in act of valour) opening to it he says BUDS is the hardest military selection anywhere,harder than army special forces,air force pararescue,british SAS and Dutch KCT.
Thoughts everyone?
An expert in all selection courses!God this mans good !! to have done them all and then be able to compair them and then in his opinium, humbly state which is the most challenging.
 
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#9
It is hard to define or quantify.
Unless you have trained and passed pre-selection then selection in these select courses it is nay on impossible to comment which is best.

All of these types of courses are a means to an end.
Ie. Training personnel to there extreme human abilities to pass what is an advancement in there own military traits.

D
 

Heno

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#10
Ask Jim Shortt. He'd know, he's done every f**kin' SF selection there is.....

Heno
 

Scab

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#11
Ask Jim Shortt. He'd know, he's done every f**kin' SF selection there is.....

Heno

Mate, we've got to talk. I don't know if you heard, but well, Jim Shortt got found out walting a bit.
 

mts

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#12
The selection you pass is the hardest; the selection you fail is easy, but failure is blamed on a third party/external factor.
Every SF considers their's the hardest, and rightfully so.

It doesn't matter who's really is the hardest.

m
 

protectasia

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#13
And remember, to add another dimension there will always be those who say, 'it was much harder in my day' :)
 

Scab

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#14
The selection you pass is the hardest; the selection you fail is easy, but failure is blamed on a third party/external factor.
Every SF considers their's the hardest, and rightfully so.

It doesn't matter who's really is the hardest.

m
Well, it does. Because the easier the selection process the less refined the product at the end. People fail basic entry tests into an armed force - and the standards in place can be objectively assessed for how hard they would be compared to others.

That would have to take into account the role which that unit is trained for. Short or long term? Direct action or something like ISTAR. PF selection is longer and by all accounts harder than some other countries SF units selections yet PF are not SF.

The question has been banded around since the beginning of time but is always brushed aside with generalised answers.

Personally; I'd say everything is down to the performance of the unit on its assigned tasks; but that does not answer the question either.
 

Heno

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#15
Mate, we've got to talk. I don't know if you heard, but well, Jim Shortt got found out walting a bit.
Rumours put about by jealous people. He passed every single SF selection ever, did 22's selection twice a year just to show the young 'uns how its done, he set up every single SF unit east of the Danube, and almost single handedly drove those pesky Commies out of Afghanistan in '89.

All while wearing a kilt and 35kg of various medals and trinkets.


Heno
 

AMCMW

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#16
A small handful of my students are UKSF. To pick up on a point raised by boropete, they all say that one of the hardest factors of selection is to persevere in isolation, the only thing keeping you going is the voice in your own head. Fairly soon into the initial phase the physical elements are largely equalized, because everyone is in a shit state, so mental strength supersedes athleticism.

By comparison, one of my colleagues in the US is former DEVGRU. He said that what got him through BUDS was his team, you just cling onto your buddies and tell each other that you're going to make it. However, to pick up on Scab's point, if we're talking about facing the Green Team for DEVGRU selection then he said that's a whole different story. His OTC lasted 8 months, and through that period his individual skillet was meticulously scrutinised for anything less than perfection. In his opinion, completely different ball game.

So, I don't really know what my point is, but it's in there somewhere. I've been up for 32 hours.
 

boropete

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#17
well said mate,the SAS/AUS SAS approach of being alone on the hills with a compass and heavy bergan and relying on nothing but your own self-discipline to get you through without a screaming instructor says enough,from what i've seen of the USSF approach i'd put it more akin with P-coy or RM training.
 

geds

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#18
Different courses are harder for different people, all depends on your personality and strengths/ weaknesses. Bottom line, all the top SF courses produce the same result, although with a slightly different process. If they didn't then the units wouldn't work together.

Geds
 

mts

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#19
Well, it does. Because the easier the selection process the less refined the product at the end. People fail basic entry tests into an armed force - and the standards in place can be objectively assessed for how hard they would be compared to others.

That would have to take into account the role which that unit is trained for. Short or long term? Direct action or something like ISTAR. PF selection is longer and by all accounts harder than some other countries SF units selections yet PF are not SF.

The question has been banded around since the beginning of time but is always brushed aside with generalised answers.

Personally; I'd say everything is down to the performance of the unit on its assigned tasks; but that does not answer the question either.
At the Regiment, SEALS, Matcal etc., level, i don't think it matters.

M
 

TMAC

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#20
Rumours put about by jealous people. He passed every single SF selection ever, did 22's selection twice a year just to show the young 'uns how its done, he set up every single SF unit east of the Danube, and almost single handedly drove those pesky Commies out of Afghanistan in '89.

All while wearing a kilt and 35kg of various medals and trinkets.

Is he still operating out of that castle near Ardee? Haven't heard too much about him lately....
 
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