Not sure how to go about this

L

Lincs

Full Registered User
I find myself in a difficult situation.

I want to train to be a CCTV operative and security guard.
I was born in the UK and lived here all my life (nearly 50 now), never had any trouble with the police, clean criminal record.

However I did have an extended holiday in South Africa in 2014, over 6 months. Again I had no contact with the police while I was there.
The immigration office never answered the telephone or answered e-mails so I went to the Pretoria immigration office and queued for hours and hours and was eventually seen to be told I would not get a permit to stay in SA I had no relatives there, I asked about and was put onto this lawyer.
I saw the lawyer to get me a residence permit, I paid him nearly £2000. He was unreliable and he kept making promises he did not keep, eventually I did get my temporary permit, he told me this is the third one issued as the 2 previous ones were stolen.

While I lived there I soon realised I wanted to go back to the Uk but was stuck in a rental property so waited for that to expire.
I found getting anything done in SA very difficult, slow and a lengthy process compared to the UK.

On the SIA form there is a question about being abroad for more than 6 months in the last 5 years so that applies to me.
I would need to supply an overseas criminal record check.
I would have to apply in writing to the Client Service Centre of the South African Police Service. From experience with applying for a SA driving license and other tasks I know that I will not receive a reply at all so it would be a waste of time and money.
On top of that Finger prints must be enclosed with the letter to the South African Police Service. These can be obtained at any police authority in the UK.

After a Google search UK police do not provide that service anymore and I would need to use a private company.

Even if I got the fingerprints, sent them to South Africa I am sure my letter will get ignored or lost.
One of the things I wanted to get back to the Uk for was we had a postal system, where I stayed in SA there was no post at all.

The passport I used for that trip expired in 2016 and has been destroyed. I now have a new British passport that I applied for last year that has not been used.

I assume if I applied for the SIA license they would be able to see I was out of the UK for more than 6 months?
 
I want to add that it was a temporary residence permit that I received in SA and during this time I used my parents home who live in the UK as my address for UK mail etc.
 
SAY. NOTHING.

I mean it, don't mention it, allude to it, refer to it or own up to it if asked....

You were on holidays, in and out for a few months, you didn't actually live there.

I'm assuming if you murdered someone or committed a crime serious enough to have a record they would have kept you in a stinking prison there?

Apply, no breaks in your residency, it'll sail through (in so far as with the SIA it can) and you'll go off to work as a happy UK national with a security license!!!!
 
OMG,

The Sia can't get a straight forward licence application done so god help you if it deviates from the norm.
I would list your family address as your address for 5+ years, if I was in your situation, my time away would be a holiday

Regards

premier
 
I am originally South African and i have applied for the SA CRB equivalent. It was a nightmare even when i was in the country. I wouldn't even attempt it from the UK.
Ignore it, i very much doubt the SIA will see it. Or put it down as less than 6 months. Thats what i did for my time in New Zealand and it has never been questioned.
 
Thank-you for the replies.

Yes it was a temporary permit, I was there just under 12 months and used my parents address in the UK for mail during that time.
For the last over 2 years I have lived here at my own current UK address.

In section 1 of the form (Consent) it says,

"◦In order to consider my application, the SIA will carry out checks to verify my identity, including Experian and Her Majesty’s Passport Office (HMPO) checks."

When they make the passport checks, even though my old one was destroyed and the current one is blank I would have thought that they will be given the dates I entered and exited the UK if they are kept on record by the passport office.
 
You could try talking to the SA embassy and see if they can give any guidance.
I am not sure if the SIA really speaks to the passport office or not. You could always try talking to the SIA but i don't recall them as being the most helpful people either.
 
damodeb said:
You could try talking to the SA embassy and see if they can give any guidance.
I am not sure if the SIA really speaks to the passport office or not. You could always try talking to the SIA but i don't recall them as being the most helpful people either.
Click to expand...

They don't, because they don't care.

KISS....KEEP. IT. SIMPLE. STUPID.
 
damodeb said:
You could try talking to the SA embassy and see if they can give any guidance.
I am not sure if the SIA really speaks to the passport office or not. You could always try talking to the SIA but i don't recall them as being the most helpful people either.
Click to expand...

On the SIA website it has an alphabetical list of countries and what you would need to do for a criminal record check.
For South Africa you need to call or go to the high commission in London and get the relevant form, get fingerprints done
somewhere in the UK and post the form and apply in writing to the client service centre of the SA Police station, wherever that it is.
Like you said in your previous post even when in SA it is a nightmare getting anything sorted out.
It took me 4 face to face trips to get my roadworthy certificate and I had all the correct paperwork the first time.

I also do not like the idea of sending my fingerprints to SA as they could be used illegally and get into the wrong hands.
My temporary permit was stolen twice from the immigration office before I finally received a copy.

Applying via post to SA for the criminal record check would be pointless and even in the very unlikely event they did receive it and reply with the correct paperwork, the SIA would then need to check it's validity :) which could take forever.
 
Just because the SIA say they check something doesn't mean they do.
They're shit
There's always been loads of people working with licences that are illegal immigrants, have criminal records etc and while they're getting better at checking (based on fewer reports in the news) people still slip through.
You're way down the list in terms of causing a problem.

As an aside, there's the question of Law, honesty and integrity, should you declare it or not?
You're not trying to hide a bad past (we presume anyway) but you're still lying on an official application.
Having said that I know people that regularly bend and break the law in the course of carrying out CP tasks because it doesn't harm anyone but means they can better protect the Principal (obviously I'm not talking about me, I'm whiter than white in all that I do)
 
The passport office does not have access to information about your entry and exit to and from the UK. The only contact the SIA have with the passport office is for the purposes of identification. Considering that the SIA actually issue licenses to real criminals, and is therefore a complete nonsense anyway, I'd just complete the form without mentioning you'd ever been to SA. They have no way of finding out unless you tell them.
 
MrBlonde said:
Just because the SIA say they check something doesn't mean they do.
They're shit
There's always been loads of people working with licences that are illegal immigrants, have criminal records etc and while they're getting better at checking (based on fewer reports in the news) people still slip through.
You're way down the list in terms of causing a problem.

As an aside, there's the question of Law, honesty and integrity, should you declare it or not?
You're not trying to hide a bad past (we presume anyway) but you're still lying on an official application.
Having said that I know people that regularly bend and break the law in the course of carrying out CP tasks because it doesn't harm anyone but means they can better protect the Principal (obviously I'm not talking about me, I'm whiter than white in all that I do)
Click to expand...

I'm whiter than white.....Your Honour
 
When I applied for my CP licence I had a 2 month delay compared to others on my course. The reason was that I had lived abroad at some point during the last 5 years. At this point I already had a DS licence. The evidence of a lack of a criminal record from abroad that they used, was the evidence on my DS application, I didn't have to send it again. They went and got my DS files and took 2 months wondering whether they should accept the evidence that they had already accepted.

On the other hand if you've popped off to an international football match abroad, beat someone up and got deported and banned from the country, you don't have to declare it at all. You could even do 5 months in a foreign prison after a conviction for violence, and you still wouldn't have to declare it.

So the system is neither competent or fair. If you don't declare it your biggest potential problem (and it is a small possibility) is that they find out and won't take a "corrected" application. I've reported company directors without licences and they won't prosecute, so I can't see them prosecuting for something like that.
 
Listen to the advice above, it's all good. SIA are good in their own respect, they apparently keep thugs out, thats debatable though. I can't add any more to the good advice you've been given. good luck m8.
 
TMAC said:
I'm whiter than white.....Your Honour
Click to expand...

Last time i was in court as a witness the judge sent the defendant down, judge said 6 months, wee scrote said "I can do that standing on my head" judge replied "have 12 months to get back on your feet again"
 
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