Post incident forensics management, where did this come from?

K

kvn86

Full Registered User
Can anyone shed any light on why the hell some companies have now started asking for this qual which cost around £350, gives you no authority what so ever and quite frankly would never stand up in any court in the world.

I have spoke to two guys who have both done this and say its a complete and utter waste of time.

Another cash course to see the lads off? Does anyone have a different opinion and can give a reasonable answer as to why this course would be necessary for an AST to do, would it not be the job of the SSO anyway or even more so the investigating authorities or coalition forces if they come on scene.
 
A good team leader with a post incident report and a camera should be just as good. I know that if you are on a British vessel and an incident happens the MCA will send a team of police investigators out to " investigate" on what happened. But yes another money grabbing exercise for a non accreditation course......remember to pack your white paper forensic suits, gloves and masks.....
 
The good thing is when maritime security...the piracy threat dies you will be able to become a scene of crimes officer!!!
 
An interesting topic, having just read the course outline offered by a TP I find it hard to comprehend that it takes two days to train an individual in crime scene management - the subject matter covered would usually take 12 months or more for a trainee SOCO to undertake. This is a two stage course, nine weeks residential then a work based portfolio.

It is understandable from a security operatives perspective that a basic knowledge of crime scene management and preservation of evidence techniques are a pre requisite but it needs to be kept proportionate to the knowledge required.
 
It is TPs finding another niche area to exploit nothing more. ISO28007 requires a PCASPs can secure a scene after a firearms incident and some PMSCs rather than organise documented procedures to follow or hold in house training merely pass the buck and want PCASP to have a course prior to recruitment. Complete waste of time course, per 28007 and IMO Guidance PCASP are expected to know how to secure a crime scene, take witness statements etc. But there are free resources- check ACPO Crime Manual for SSOs- and realistically the Master and SSO will be heavily involved, as will Flag authorities... IF an incident is made official and reported- doesn't always happen!

But does throw up another issue... strongly advise guys to read IMO1405 and if you can get hold of 28007 as well. Sometimes PMSCs ask for stuff that is a load of bs and not needed, but at other times they are asking for certain things because of compliance with regulations and guidance. The C&G MSO course does have a whole module on the legislative environment, but until guys can get on one, I'd suggest looking into the behind the scenes stuff to understand the compliance side of things. Because these days it is not as easy to comply as it used to be and in the future it'll get worse I'm afraid.
 
How can you conduct an independent, transparant and un-biased investigation?? Especially when it involves your Team, and your desicion making process.

Another complete and utter load of crud form the good ideas club
 
And under what lawful body are you taking these statements under? What if someone refuses or admits something?

Does the course cover the differences in legal standing of evidence, Law definitions, the list is endless.

Hypothetically speaking, if I rocked up as an investigator and found that a Team had conducted its own invetigation and taken statements - I would've nicked every single one of you.

Post incident reporting - maintaining your own pocket notebook of events fine. Anymore than that it is standing in dodgy ground.

But then again Maritime Companies and associated TP's are nowadays that pathetic and money grabbing - they have become the pirates and will rob you blind for anything they can.
 
Given the amount of money you now shell out in a shrinking marketplace, maybe there is an urgent need for a course in forensic accounting before you enter the industry?

It would appear to me that this is an absolute waste of time delivered by a company that might soon be changing its recruitment policy (judging by how much business they've lost) from bootnecks to submariners.....?
 
Incredible course...?

Given the amount of money you now shell out in a shrinking marketplace, maybe there is an urgent need for a course in forensic accounting before you enter the industry?

It would appear to me that this is an absolute waste of time delivered by a company that might soon be changing its recruitment policy (judging by how much business they've lost) from bootnecks to submariners.....?
 
We are pleased to announce our new "Combo Underwater Knife Fighting, Forensic Pathology, Holding your breath for three hours, HALO, LALO, Kryptonite Handling, NINJA, Harry Potter Cloak of Invisibility, Broomstick Piloting & General Toilet Cleaning Course authorised by the SIA which all MARSEC operators are now required to have by law. This will consist of 370 hours of guided learning over 2 days and costs 2 shillings and sixpence including VAT. You may be entitled to attend this course for free - see your local Jobcentre for details.

:)
 
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you forgot the 'basket weaving, crocheting and 74 ease of entry positions for those wishing to *** you up the arse'!!!
 
Mate , there is soooooooo much spin in this industry. I have yet to find any evidence of a Brit presenting one of these certificates, although I do believe these forgeries were found and did exist; wish I’d known before spunking my own money!

I think Brit MARSEC companies are leading the way with their methodology of addressing standards – they’ve set the benchmark nice and high and have introduced the new globally accepted double standards.

If you are a Brit then they will rinse you for as much wedge as possible, ask you to fund your own training to the tune of thousands (with zero job security) produce annual CRB checks, weapons competency etc etc. Then they will send you out on a transit where you will find that part of your team will be a Sri Lankan who you’ve never met or worked with. He will have none of the certs or background checks you have gone through and your company will have NOTHING but the assurances of the company that is supplying the weapons and ‘custodian’ that all that should be in place is in place.

Or you might be with another company who are proud ICoC signatories who then equip you with hunting rifles and hunting grade ammunition – oops, don’t mention the Geneva Convention guys…

Then maybe you could invest yet more money in the new City and Guilds course and brush up on your chart work whilst still knowing that you are not legally allowed anywhere near a chart on a commercial merchant vessel and that C & G is worthless and hardly recognised by the shipping industry . Forget any of those boring topics, such as obstacle construction, NATO skiff recognition, improvised ballistic protection or even calculating distance to horizon lol!

I know firsthand that we are not on an equal playing field, having been to the Philippines for example, I know that not only can I source a moody cert, I can actually get the genuine article as in STCW ’95 which is verifiable. Likewise I can do the same in Sri Lanka – but best not to mention that and focus on the Brits as at least they have the money to ‘re-invest’ in the various training schemes…
 
Mate , there is soooooooo much spin in this industry. I have yet to find any evidence of a Brit presenting one of these certificates, although I do believe these forgeries were found and did exist; wish I’d known before spunking my own money!

I think Brit MARSEC companies are leading the way with their methodology of addressing standards – they’ve set the benchmark nice and high and have introduced the new globally accepted double standards.

If you are a Brit then they will rinse you for as much wedge as possible, ask you to fund your own training to the tune of thousands (with zero job security) produce annual CRB checks, weapons competency etc etc. Then they will send you out on a transit where you will find that part of your team will be a Sri Lankan who you’ve never met or worked with. He will have none of the certs or background checks you have gone through and your company will have NOTHING but the assurances of the company that is supplying the weapons and ‘custodian’ that all that should be in place is in place.

Or you might be with another company who are proud ICoC signatories who then equip you with hunting rifles and hunting grade ammunition – oops, don’t mention the Geneva Convention guys…

Then maybe you could invest yet more money in the new City and Guilds course and brush up on your chart work whilst still knowing that you are not legally allowed anywhere near a chart on a commercial merchant vessel and that C & G is worthless and hardly recognised by the shipping industry . Forget any of those boring topics, such as obstacle construction, NATO skiff recognition, improvised ballistic protection or even calculating distance to horizon lol!

I know firsthand that we are not on an equal playing field, having been to the Philippines for example, I know that not only can I source a moody cert, I can actually get the genuine article as in STCW ’95 which is verifiable. Likewise I can do the same in Sri Lanka – but best not to mention that and focus on the Brits as at least they have the money to ‘re-invest’ in the various training schemes…
 
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