Self Defence - In the real world

Oddjob thank you for your input. Again good and useful advice, thank you.

Premier, I know what I would do and I opened this thread up as a debate on what if's, if you are "tired of this thread" or maybe not hearing what you want to hear, then don't bother being involved in a debate, we have had some great advice from people and I am sure that some, including myself, have found it useful.thank you.
 
RKT

the answer to your concern is JUDGMENT.
To be honest, if i was attacked by two drunk males and they were well and truly sloshed, I doubt I would even need to hit them hard. Maybe a couple of body shots. My training gives me lots of ways to cover up and protect vital targets. I should be able to walk away from that encounter with nothing more than a few bruises, and enough "discouragement" delivered to the drunks that they are no longer a problem. No serious injuries - on either side.

What the guys here are telling you is that a street encounter with multiple attackers could ESCALATE into something much more serious. You are literally only talking about instants of time to recognize how good your attackers are and what their intentions are. The way I would handle this incident on the back streets of Bangkok is a lot different than what I might do in a country lane in the UK. Although, to be honest, I bet there are people here would would tell me that street attackers in bad suburbs of London are every bit as dangerous as what you would find in other countries :-)

But you need a LOT of training to assess, react, and respond confidently. There is no six-week course that gives you the answers and you are all done. Find a good instructor and get started.

and BTW Saward ... Ive got no argument against weapons with a "longer range". A well used shovel is a very effective defense tool :-)

good luck!
KL
 
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KingLeonidas said:
RKT

the answer to your concern is JUDGMENT.
To be honest, if i was attacked by two drunk males and they were well and truly sloshed, I doubt I would even need to hit them hard. Maybe a couple of body shots. My training gives me lots of ways to cover up and protect vital targets. I should be able to walk away from that encounter with nothing more than a few bruises, and enough "discouragement" delivered to the drunks that they are no longer a problem. No serious injuries - on either side.
KL
Click to expand...

Thats a good answer and better than stamping on their heads or killing them with a Ninja blow to the Brachial Plexus (I know you can't!). I know what people are saying and, in part, I agree, but your response is realistic and shows that the force used should be proportionate to the threat as you have perceived it.
Cheers
 
KingLeonidas said:
RKT

the answer to your concern is JUDGMENT.
To be honest, if i was attacked by two drunk males and they were well and truly sloshed, I doubt I would even need to hit them hard. Maybe a couple of body shots. My training gives me lots of ways to cover up and protect vital targets. I should be able to walk away from that encounter with nothing more than a few bruises, and enough "discouragement" delivered to the drunks that they are no longer a problem. No serious injuries - on either side.

What the guys here are telling you is that a street encounter with multiple attackers could ESCALATE into something much more serious. You are literally only talking about instants of time to recognize how good your attackers are and what their intentions are. The way I would handle this incident on the back streets of Bangkok is a lot different than what I might do in a country lane in the UK. Although, to be honest, I bet there are people here would would tell me that street attackers in bad suburbs of London are every bit as dangerous as what you would find in other countries :-)

But you need a LOT of training to assess, react, and respond confidently. There is no six-week course that gives you the answers and you are all done. Find a good instructor and get started.

and BTW Saward ... Ive got no argument against weapons with a "longer range". A well used shovel is a very effective defense tool :-)

good luck!
KL
Click to expand...

You made me smile a little with some of your views,sorry but to expand on this,
example 1/ English country lane on a late saturday afternoon,open top sports car with myself driving my ex wife as passenger looking for my bosses new house with invitation to housewarming party,idyllic ! going sowly when round the bend came a mini heading towards me making me vear almost into a ditch which prompted me to shout ***ker and give him a hand jesture,that done i gets out of the car to access the damage and realised the mini had halted and the driver was on the roadside with his hands on his hips giving me verbal,striding out to him in a controlled temper im telling him me thoughts of him when he lost his bottle and ducked back into the car,with that and the missis shouting at me to come back i turned to go back to my car when all of a sudden she screamed at me hes got a gun ! i turned and he had a double barrel 12 bore open and was reaching with one hand into the car door panel (he was about 10 metres away)for something i ran at him and reached him as he was closing the action of the gun which he had just put cartridges in,anyway got to him swept gun away and hit him a couple of times resulting in him pissing his pants as he hit the floor,making safe the gun i smashed the stock off and noticed a further two guns on the back seat so i did the same to them and then broke them down and took the three sets of barrells with me to my car after first letting the two front tyres down on the mini and throwing the keys into the ditch .The driver was in his twenties had been drinking ,the guns were his dads not his (been to a clay shoot) and he was on leave (army)which the police informed me of later,obviousely i went to my bosses house used the phone and reported the incident and location of the car and my possesion of the barrells ! would he have shot me ?yes i think he would at the time,my criminal damage to him and the guns/car was never mentioned and his father (a mason)was never admonished,So a sunny saturday in Cheshire when mobile phones werent the norm.
Was going to give more examples (i have many) but i am sure lots of you on this site have had the same experiences in life so wont bore you,all i will say is that i do teach quick fix courses to females (anti rape/predator)pre-deployment,gutterfighting and skills that work,i do not teach people to fight! only to win ,i give the the confidance and knowledge to do this to the maximum of their ability and suffer the conciquences at a later date,i dont give a fig about the niceties of life but if me or mine are threatened i will respond to the maximum,YOU may not like this ideology but it has saved my life numerous times and has given me the confidence to give 100% protection to my clients and fellow operators in our line of work.
Sorry to say this but its a load of rubbish to state (within a degree)as somebody else quoted (RKT)to use proportinate force to the threat as you perceive ? I use maximum force in relation to finishing the threat ,i dont want to hit someone who then backs off and comes again with knife/gun/other weapon, or goes to get a few more of his friends, or lays low to do a later sneak attack,No! if they are a threat ,finish it.
Please dont get me wrong on this,i dont mean i would attack someone giving a verbal or use a weapon against someone who is not but i would use anything around me to hand to protect me if me or mine are in mortal danger.
As an operative/CPO you cannot afford to control and restrain or fight with someone ,you have to finish the problem to carry on the task in hand,a DS has diferant skills to aquire.
Sorry for this long rant and i am ready for the incoming i am going to receive by all the dojo and sports martial experts on site.
 
You'd be hard pushed legally trying to justify a stamp to the head - indeed any strike to someone once they are on the ground (any strike to someone on the ground is considered ABH as standard irrespective of damage done) unless they were armed in some capacity or you were trapped somehow... Maybe.

It is a bit of a grey area insofar as blurring the line between self defence and a prolonged attack; the latter being clearly over the line. But it is of course subjective as to the threat being responded too.

Line many questions of "What if I do this..." with regards to self defence, the answer is going to come down to:

"Was it reasonable (proportionate and necessary) in the circumstances?"
 
The way I see it, it's very hard to see a fair fight in the street anymore, not to mention that in 95% of the cases, somebody's gonna pull a knife on you, or some other improvised object, be it a screwdriver, kubotan, tactical pen, telescopic baton. So for me a good self defense system is one working with a weapon - the Filipino Martial Arts systems and more specifically Pekiti Tirsia Kali, focused extremely on edged and impact weapons, long and short, and depending on the country you live - firearms. Empty hands are taught as to a point that you can break, immobilise and most importantly - main the oponnent until you get your hands on something that can be used as a weapon. Remember - " If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck ". So leave the sportsmanship for the ring, out on the street it's all about surviving.
 
I've done 15 years kickboxing and 5 Krav Maga when I was least expecting it not wearing my stab best I got hit between the ribs with a screwdriver and fought back but lost the guy as he vaulted over a bin and I realised was injured seriously

Luckily wasn't as bad as it looked and had a lucky escape I suppose in that my training prevented me from being stabbed multiple times and I also wounded my attacker and he was picked up by police with dogs laying low badly hurt in a bush

If your taken by surprise the odds are against you and as I've learned no matter how well trained you are you will usually at least get injured especially fighting an armed opponent

I had a guy last week was being led to our holding room seemed no bother after being arrested decided to spin around and go for it, only problem was I grabbed his bag strap n my little finger got spun round causing it to dislocate, ended up on top of this male who's screaming n kicking shit out of my back with heels of his boots pushing his face into floor holding his arm behind his back with a dislocated pinky and some bloody customer filming me ffs!?!

It looked bad but it had to be done this guy was walking out with a trolley of gear worth £600 without offering payment I suppose it's the risks of the job and I've done a lot of training and still get hurt sometimes lol

It doesn't help when u work with some bloody 'hard' guy who disappears when it kicks off either

Chris
 
"If your taken by surprise the odds are against you and as I've learned no matter how well trained you are you will usually at least get injured especially fighting an armed opponent "

That's a very SENSIBLE comment.
I think that we all do a lot of training, and we imagine that things will work out for the best. But really, these criminals are going to use surprise attacks and there's a good chance of injury. You actually reacted very well ... you prevented multiple stab wounds. It could have been pretty bad. Close-quarters stabbing is a dangerous situation ... very unpredictable outcomes.

I was talking to a guy that other day about "de-escalating situations". Sometimes it really pays to de-escalate, instead of going into a brawl. Now in your case, this doesn't really apply. Because your job was to stop somebody stealing (and by the way - it was really bad that your back-up man took off. that was bad). But in personal situations, de-escalating the confrontation can be useful. Anyway, the guy I was talking to - said this ...

1. Most "nasty buggers" will think twice about fighting with you, if you give them a little bit of space. If you give them the option to walk out, a lot of times they will. Because they don't want to get hurt either - not if they think you are serious. So if you give them a little space, they might decide to leave the scene.

2. If you do go for a confrontation, one thing is absolutely true. YOU HAVE GOT MORE TO LOSE THAN THEY DO. Because the chances are that the idiot with the gun or the screwdriver is unemployed, doesn't have shite for brains, and can't even afford to pay the legal fees for your hospital bills.

It's a good point.

KL
 
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