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The physical side of the job

Tom6187

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#1
I did my course and gained the licence last summer and a few things struck me, for one it was an absolute piece of piss that I don't think I could have failed if I tried although saying that one guy in the course failed but he was illiterate.

The main thing though was that it contained absolutely no information on how to eject people which has to be a major thing for door supervisors, there was nothing physical or even mental in relation to ejecting.

I haven't taken a job in door supervision yet because of the job I got after the course but now I'm looking at going into it, basically I want to know if I should concern myself about learning the correct methods for ejecting people (especially awkward people) and if so where should I start? Or should I just get stuck in and use my own common sense?
 

annie

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#2
A DS course or a CP course is simply a method of getting your license so that you MAY work, in no way should this be your only ever training, personal training should be a career long thing, you should always want to better yourself, make yourself more than every other guy who took the course. It is about how far you want to go and how much you want to progress
 

Prometheus

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#3
Many on this forum realise that the SIA in their wisdom have set the bare minimum standard for DS & CP. "No shit" There is much more that could be included on both DS/CP but the course will cost much more, and last longer. I've said it before and I'll say it again the DS course should be minimum level 3 and the CP course 4 or above.

I will state here and now for the record that the SIA will continue to add modules to the syllabus during the next 5+ years. We all know the DS course is woefully inadequate but things are what they are. I believe for some unexplained reason they were badly advised what the minimum standard should be, I agree the standard is piss poor.

On the other hand not everyone possesses the same education standard and would possibly rule out many if the course was more difficult. It would also have to be a fulltime course like CP, and then there's cost. I don't have the answers but wish I did because it bugs me why these courses are so poor.

Rant over
 

premier

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#4
tom,

common sense is a must, but you need to feel more than just qualified to be a good ds you need to be competent and willing.
annie has hit the nail on the head with regard to training, also i personally think that fitness is a must as our job is on occasion a physical one i also enjoy time in the gym and the dojo which i feel keeps me alert and able for when required. ;)

stay safe

premier
 

KNASHER

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#5
Like every trade or job the training never ends, as you learn or should learn something new everyday.

The school of life never closes its doors but at the end someone nails the lid down,until then keep learning and good luck.

NASH..
 

Tom6187

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#6
A DS course or a CP course is simply a method of getting your license so that you MAY work, in no way should this be your only ever training, personal training should be a career long thing, you should always want to better yourself, make yourself more than every other guy who took the course. It is about how far you want to go and how much you want to progress
What step should I take though? I want somebody to teach me the best way to efficiently eject a difficult person which is my only concern about the job because if it's not done correctly surely it can lead to difficult and unnecessary situations, do you think that should be something I can pick up on the job?

Many on this forum realise that the SIA in their wisdom have set the bare minimum standard for DS & CP. "No shit" There is much more that could be included on both DS/CP but the course will cost much more, and last longer. I've said it before and I'll say it again the DS course should be minimum level 3 and the CP course 4 or above.

I will state here and now for the record that the SIA will continue to add modules to the syllabus during the next 5+ years. We all know the DS course is woefully inadequate but things are what they are. I believe for some unexplained reason they were badly advised what the minimum standard should be, I agree the standard is piss poor.

On the other hand not everyone possesses the same education standard and would possibly rule out many if the course was more difficult. It would also have to be a fulltime course like CP, and then there's cost. I don't have the answers but wish I did because it bugs me why these courses are so poor.

Rant over
I guess it's a matter of balance but as it is I would say they have got it well wrong and I would even say that they are putting people in danger by not including at least any physical training.
 

Stel123

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#7
Tom - since June this year it has become mandatory for new DSs to do physical intervention (PI) training. It teaches you the law, how to work within it and its foundation stone is the underpinning principal of communication, risk assessment and conflict management (which you should have been taught two days of in your course last year). The SIA, after a Home Office consultation (following a number of unfortunate incidents involving the use of force among inadequately - SIA standard - trained doorstaff) put PI training in place in order to teach door supervisors how to safely eject customers from premises when all else fails. It isn't the be-all-and-end-all and we could talk about it's pros and cons all night long, but it is another set of tools in your professional armoury.

It's not mandatory for you to do PI (yet) as you trained last year but if you choose to upskill by doing a PI course then there are a number of reputable training providers around - its probably best to go to the PI programme developers (MAYBO/NFPS etc) at source and ask who they would recommend in your area.

Best of luck as a DS.
 

Tom6187

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#8
Tom - since June this year it has become mandatory for new DSs to do physical intervention (PI) training. It teaches you the law, how to work within it and its foundation stone is the underpinning principal of communication, risk assessment and conflict management (which you should have been taught two days of in your course last year). The SIA, after a Home Office consultation (following a number of unfortunate incidents involving the use of force among inadequately - SIA standard - trained doorstaff) put PI training in place in order to teach door supervisors how to safely eject customers from premises when all else fails. It isn't the be-all-and-end-all and we could talk about it's pros and cons all night long, but it is another set of tools in your professional armoury.

It's not mandatory for you to do PI (yet) as you trained last year but if you choose to upskill by doing a PI course then there are a number of reputable training providers around - its probably best to go to the PI programme developers (MAYBO/NFPS etc) at source and ask who they would recommend in your area.

Best of luck as a DS.
Cheers mate I will get in touch with them and see if it's possible to do the physical part of the course.
 

KNASHER

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#9
Cheers mate I will get in touch with them and see if it's possible to do the physical part of the course.
Self defence supports body and mind and gives you the confidence with the rowdy twats who like to spoil everybody else's lives because theirs is so shit.
The list of self defence classes are endless just suck it and see a choose one you like :)

NASH..
 

Tom6187

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#10
Self defence supports body and mind and gives you the confidence with the rowdy twats who like to spoil everybody else's lives because theirs is so shit.
The list of self defence classes are endless just suck it and see a choose one you like :)

NASH..
I'm going to start mma training because I guess most of the twats will try to use mma techniques these days and knowing what they will try to do must be a big help.
 

jayhill

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#11
I'm going to start mma training because I guess most of the twats will try to use mma techniques these days and knowing what they will try to do must be a big help.
Muay Thai (or kick boxing) and Jiu Jitsu are both very effective as a combination together creating all round defence, standing & on the ground. If you need to use force, knowing these techniques would be very helpful on your part.
Jay
 

annie

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#12
personally i find one of thegreatest tools you have on the job is your mouth, talk to people, and when i say talk to people i mean speak to people as you'd wish to be spoken to yourself drunk or not it doesn't matter, but if you can go back and do the more physical side of the course that has now come into force then do so as talking doesn't always work obviously
 

Oddjob

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#13
personally i find one of thegreatest tools you have on the job is your mouth,
You would say that ya Gobby Mare....:eek::p;):D

Just make sure that your talkings backed up with some physical capability and an exit strategy, his or her exit, preferably head first and backwards.
 

Ninjafox

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#14
It's important that you're confident in your own ability, should things get physical. This does not mean you need to be a ninja, despite my username! :p

Regardless of how near or far you ARE from being a ninja, your most important tools should be your brain and your mouth. The ability to manage a potentially volatile situation through use of common sense and verbal reasoning is invaluable.

This will, of course, not ALWAYS prevail but more often than not it will.

For those occasions when you do need to go hands on then your abolute most important asset at that point is your team. The boys and girls on your side.

When training staff I try to drill this home as much as I can. You can simply not underestimate the benefits to a being part of a good, strong (and I don't mean big muscles!) door team.
 

mackem64

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#15
I really dont understand?

The licence as my learned friends have advised is not the training or what the job is.
The old'exam' if you like entailed scenarios in darkened rooms etc...
I can handle myself and have done martial arts in the past and took the job because it boiled my piss to see people knocked around by bullies.
I pride myself on limiting the 'shite' that sneaks into places I work.
This is not a job for 'power trippers and is or can be very dangerous..

Think very carefully as Looking smart and winking at females is not a job requirement.

No offence intended, just please stay safe.
 

waynem007

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#16
Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Have a plan, know your team and your place in it, have an awareness of your surroundings, use common sense and speak to your team, sure they will show you a few locks etc, have a couple of hours on you tube looking at the different MA'a Krav Maga, BJJ, Muat Thai, Kickboxing the list is endless, main thing to learn is the basis, if you understand how the body works it becomes easy to manipulate.

Do not try and resolve a fight yourself get some back up and always know where your heading, when in physical conflict move hard, move fast and move agressively but no sticking the boot in remember big brother sees everything and if you cant justify it to the police on cctv, you shouldnt be doing it.

But! Physical intervention is a solution to an avoidable problem, be picky who you let in, weight people up on thier approach, think about the state they are likely to get into in the next few hours and how you would handle them. There are a million different things you could do to give you the phsychological and physical edge on them. But beware there are a lot of wastes of space walking around with shiney badges, but they will turn and walk away rather than get stuck in with the lads!!!

Dont be one of them, if you cant handle the physical side, go guard morrisons!

As always this is only my humble opinion and nothing more!

Stay Safe All!!
 

Trafficcone

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#17
I started back in the day when there was no training, and learned the ropes as many other did, by watching what the other guys did, deciding what style i would use and then practicing.

If you take a job just be honest with how new you are to the role, more often than not someone will take you under their wing and keep you right
 
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