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Two doormen stabbed at Vauxhall.

Oddjob

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#1
There have been reports of two doormen at Fire Night Club. Vauxhall, London being knifed on the front door this Saturday.
I wish them a speedy recovery.
I take a special interest in this incident; as I owned this night club at one time (when it was called The Viaduct')
It raises questions over a wide range of subjects.
Re staffing. Was there enough man power. Did they have suitable experience.
Were they wearing vest and other defensive equipment.
What was the search policy. Had the knife been in the club or was it an attack from outside.
What physical defences were in place, such as barriers.
Was the area covered by suitable CCTV. Or were body worn cameras in play.
Was the SIA training provided fit for purpose. (You and I know it's shite)
Were they insured. Will they be paid whilst recovering; if so, by whom.
The clubs in the area are primarily occupied by a gay clientele . But FIRE; to my knowledge, Runs their nights around a majority straight crowd.
Does anyone have first hand or better knowledge of what happened.
As with our industry it's a pretty small world and word gets around quick;
Again I wish the boys a speedy recovery and swift justice .
 

TMAC

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#2
I think all the questions you ask are rhetorical....you and I both know that there will be a scramble to produce valid and backdated documentation, procedures and risk assessments to 'tick the boxes' of whatever investigation follows.
As for stab vests, well they cost money, why would we supply those???
 

GI0VANNI

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#3
I was not supplied even cut gloves but I bought them, same for the vest, if your manager is not interested about your health it does not mean that you should also...

Nowadays you find even t-shirts that are really concealable and cut resistant (not stab, stab proof vest are bulky, at least the ones I have ever seen)
 

FredB

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#4
usely they aren't provided , therefor i have my own class 3 bulletvest and a stab vest /gloves :) , nowadays you realy cannot do those jobs without , experienced or not.
Better safe as sorry
I never thought about them before untill i was in my free time once in a dancing talking with the doormen and some guy rode his car in front and empty a gun on the door , luckely the door was bullet proof ( especialy because i was looking at the guy and did not dive to the floor unlike others lol ) but it gave me some good thinking and an ass kicking from the door men because i didn't hide :)
 
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Oddjob

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#5
The job has always required you to look after yourself.
The training is not fit for purpose.
Sadly most head doormen don't look after and educate their teams.
Too much macho bs about not wearing protection. ( a lesson for life - also might stop all this baby father crap in the process)
Be that a vest, gloves or even a box.
Too many muscles, not enough brains. And too many knives and guns in our streets. The penalties need to be way higher and severe.
Profiled stop and search is a must.
Any news on these boys or even the hope of an arrest.
 

FredB

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#6
Agreed , too many big guys with muscles and no brains / training
people should hire experienced doormen with brains , but seeing the pay .. i can see that many with a brain would refuse the job :)
 

LakeEffectKid

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#7
The Security Company that provide staff to the Venue in question is "Professional Security". I can confirm, because I know someone that works on the Door Team there, that the stabbing happened on the front door. Both guys were NOT wearing stab-vests, and were stabbed in the back. Professional sub £6 p/w from wages for "Insurance Payments", so i'd imagine that there's going to be a payout
 

TMAC

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#8
Holy shit, what hourly rate do they pay and who on earth would let hem sub insurance payments? That had to be illegal on many levels????
 

littlewoman

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#9
Holy shit, what hourly rate do they pay and who on earth would let hem sub insurance payments? That had to be illegal on many levels????
It is very common for security companies to deduct amounts from wages for "admin" "insurance" (that is their public liability insurances not anything extra for you), uniform and I've even heard of people being charged for the company vehicle that they have to use. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any law against this. They can effectively pay you minimum wage then take money off to pay their costs, leaving you with less than minimum.
 

alamarahsoldier

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#10
While it is minimum wage for us. It is a lot of money for our foreign brothers, who are more than happy to accept it. Which therefore drives wages down and down and destroys the security market..
 

GI0VANNI

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#12
While it is minimum wage for us. It is a lot of money for our foreign brothers, who are more than happy to accept it. Which therefore drives wages down and down and destroys the security market..
Absolutely, not even when I was 18 I would work for "that". Even a pizza deliverer gets much more than that, who in his brain would work for that ¿wage?.
Either one of these "brothers" or a no-brain-just-muscle.
 

littlewoman

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#13
Absolutely, not even when I was 18 I would work for "that". Even a pizza deliverer gets much more than that, who in his brain would work for that ¿wage?.
Either one of these "brothers" or a no-brain-just-muscle.
If you need food and a roof over your head you have to take what wage there is. I don't think there are any doorstaff on minimum wage but it is common with security guards.
 

alamarahsoldier

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#14
Absolutely, not even when I was 18 I would work for "that". Even a pizza deliverer gets much more than that, who in his brain would work for that ¿wage?.
Either one of these "brothers" or a no-brain-just-muscle.
Maybe not you, but plenty of other foreigners undercutting the security market. Take a walk around London, not hard to spot. Easily enough to find out the wages on offer also.
Same was as maritime wages have decreased rapidly due to a influx.
 

GI0VANNI

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#15
If you need a roof and food and have no moral, them I suggest you to rob or even better, stab a politician, you will receive both and I am sure on jail you will have much more relaxations than in a "job" (slavery) like that. Finally the honest ones will be able to keep our moral, wages and jobs.
You won't get me to pity people for "having to work" in such conditions, if it is so bad you can always GO BACK to the place were you came from (cheaper than staying here) that for sure is better for the rest of us.
 

littlewoman

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#16
If you need a roof and food and have no moral, them I suggest you to rob or even better, stab a politician, you will receive both and I am sure on jail you will have much more relaxations than in a "job" (slavery) like that. Finally the honest ones will be able to keep our moral, wages and jobs.
You won't get me to pity people for "having to work" in such conditions, if it is so bad you can always GO BACK to the place were you came from (cheaper than staying here) that for sure is better for the rest of us.
Saying people have no morals for working for a living is ridiculous. Not everyone who takes the poor wages is a foreigner or has somewhere to go back to. There are plenty of native people who need to feed themselves and keep a roof over themselves, some of them will also have children that depend on them. Maybe it would be better to have a go at the company bosses, some of whom are getting a very good living out of paying low wages. You'll also find plenty of people in this industry that will have a go at anyone trying to get better pay and conditions, many people think SG should only get minimum wage because the job is just "sitting around doing nothing".
 

GI0VANNI

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#17
OK, maybe "moral" is not the word I should use, maybe "principles"?? from the point of view that I mean more or less: "I have to do anything to get money, so I work under wages despite even being ilegal if needed because I can not get a decent wage from another job, I am only able to work in this area and can not get anything else but refuse to beg, thing that should only hurt miself".
You have plenty of subsidies available, for foreigners or inlanders.
Finally, do not know about your country BUT here?? here workers care less than nothing for other workers in each and every industry, not only security, I for example got fired for doing that, get better conditions, out of 18 in the staff you can guess how many support I got, not to speak about the workers unions, so please allow me to be cynical about this.
 

FredB

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#18
man even the salary in the netherlands are at least 3 times higher as in uk for doormen or security personel , UK should start to make a law that only people who work and live at least 5 years in UK being able to get any security jobs and only if they own an UK passport , that'l get rid of the cheap foreign people.
I worked as correctional officer, in my 1st year i had a salary of 3800 euros , tax already paid .. without (night)shift travel and whatever extra's i still made 2k every month , average salary for a doorman here is for 30-40 hours job around 2k-3k .. UK should realy make some adjustments and have minimum wages for security personell.
you people should have all a nationwide strike and demand a minimum hourly income that equals to 2k pound monthly minimum (net earnings)and some good new laws
 
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alamarahsoldier

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#19
man even the salary in the netherlands are at least 3 times higher as in uk for doormen or security personel , UK should start to make a law that only people who work and live at least 5 years in UK being able to get any security jobs and only if they own an UK passport , that'l get rid of the cheap foreign people.
I worked as correctional officer, in my 1st year i had a salary of 3800 euros , tax already paid .. without (night)shift travel and whatever extra's i still made 2k every month , average salary for a doorman here is for 30-40 hours job around 2k-3k .. UK should realy make some adjustments and have minimum wages for security personell.
you people should have all a nationwide strike and demand a minimum hourly income that equals to 2k pound monthly minimum (net earnings)and some good new laws
If only it was that easy. The U.K. Is the most politically correct country going.
You can't do that to them, you can't say that to them.

It's happened with most trades over here, more so security and building trade.
 

FredB

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#20
Here we have unions , i am always suprised that a lot countries do not have any what's it called labour union ?? for the workers that organizes salaries and strikes when needed.
Actualy it is that easy , if needed with referenda to force a law change nationwide , now i am ofcourse not completely aware about your laws over there , but when people do not work , even for a day, they do have a serious problem and will consider changes to avoid having that happen again.
If this goes on .. soon there won't be a salary enough to pay the rent .. and especially in risk jobs like security that are extremely important for a country, it's time the government recognizes the importance of the security industry and make adjustments and laws and realize where they would be right now if there was no security at all in pubs , shops and where ever .. they should be goddamn happy we work for them , so the police do not overwork theirself, it would be as fair to have at least a descent salary for those people that save the country from anarchy .. because i promise you .. there will be without us security personel
 
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