just to add, the Police can be called if you are aggressive towards anyone in the shop. You must remember that if you are restrained, then it is for the safety of others and yourself. Reasonable force can be used if and only if the person has been using abusive or threatening behaviour. The power of search lies solely with the Police, again you don't want to be finding yourself with a knife at your throat and having to dis-arm the accused. Try to find the policies of the store and next time you'll be prepared for the question that they ask.
Can someone clarify the legal rights of security guards?
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operation operational opinion ops order organised original owner p.i paid para part pass passed past pay paying payment peace people peoples permission person personal phone physical pick place places plan pockets point points police poor post power practice pre premises prepared pretty prevention previous prior prison private pro problem problems procedure process professional proof property prosecution protecting proven provide public punches purpose purposes push pushing put question questions quiet raise random rate read reason reasonable reasons receipt recent recently recommend record recovery red refusal refused regularly remember remove removed report request required requires reserve respect respond response responsibilities restrained restraint retail retail security return rich rights rip risk room round run running safe scone scope scotland scottish search section secure secured security security guard security guarding security guards security officer security officers security staff selection self defence self defense sell services set sex shit shop shoplifting shot shout show showing shows sia sia badge sia licence side sign similar simple simply situation sky small snatch soldiers solely solicitor someones sort sound sounds speak spec special specifically spent stabbing staff stamp stand standards star start state stated statement states station stay steal stick stolen stop stop and search stops store store detective story street stress strike subject submit successful suffering suit summons sun supervisor support suspect suspects system systems tac tact tag tagging taking talk talking team tech technical temp tent term test theft thin thing things threat threatened threats throat til till time times title today toe told top touch toys train trained training trip true turn turned turns type uk law understanding unit unlawful users vacant valid verbally vessel victim violation visit visiting wait wales walk walked walking wanted wanting war warning warrant weapon weapons wear weeks westminster white widely wife wing wise woman won work working world worse worth write wrong year years young
Not saying you wrong here but this is my experience hope this helps anyone who reads
Acording to the courts to touch without permmission is an assault not unnecessary force. Sharing my experience with you while working as a DS responded to a shout & found a male who had been punched by another male, i took the accused & 2 friend to the security office but upon reaching the office they tried running I grabbed the accused's wrist & 5 minutes later after punching me 5 times in the jaw on seperate occassions while trying to escape including while being on the street he was arrested. CPS pressed charges for me as my case stood better than the original case & the judge chucked it as I assaulted him first by grabbing his wrist!! What BULL!! (being polite
) The justice system doesn't show enough respect to the industry & what we do & the risks we endure. For the record the guy was a wuss because I was ill & he didn't even mark me & I felt no pain even after 5 punches in the same place!!
Good luck to all in the industry & I might be wrong & just got unlucky with the judge but most importantly BE SAFE
littlewoman
Longterm Registered User
Its now called an 'any person' arrest, so I'm guessing that has got around that problem. Although most people will still refer to it as a citizens arrest as that's the term most people understand.
There is a lot of conflicting information on this post, most of it comes from a lack of distinction between legal rights and company policy or good practice. I will try to clarify some of it. Bearing in mind that I do not have a law degree.
Legally you can search anyone if they give consent, as they are consenting, but you would be on dodgy grounds if you put pressure on them. ie. "consent to a search or you'll be here for hours".
It is virtually unheard of for people to search people of the opposite gender but males often search bags of females. Companies might have their own policies about how searching may be carried out such as asking people to empty pockets rather than actually search them yourself. If you don't abide by your own company's policies then you could have problems.
Anyone on company premises (unless they happen to be police, customs etc.) are there by permission of the company so the company can make searching a condition of entry, or a condition of remaining on the premises but that policy must be clearly displayed. You can refuse entry to people if they refuse to be searched or you can ask them to leave if on the premises and they refuse a search (within the the stated policy) but you can not force someone to submit to a search just becasue its policy.
Security staff do no have a right to search anyone.
You can ask someone to stay where they are or accompany you back into the shop but to force them you have to know that an indictable offence has been committed. In the case of the alarm going off then a security guard could ask someone if they've bought something that might have an alarm on and ask them to come back in to the shop so the tag can be removed. Honest customers will if approached the right way. The guard should not treat the person like a criminal and if they grab hold of the person then that is assault if they can not be sure that an indictable offence has been committed.
If you suspect taht someone has committed an offence you can ask them to wait until the police turn up but you can not force them to.
You can however use reasonable force to prevent crime. So if someone is pushing someone else or has hold of them and shouting abuse at them, you could take hold of that person to stop the offence, but you can not detain or arrest them as it would only be a summary offence. Once they have stopped the crime and seem like they will not keep offending then you have to let them go. If they were threatening to kill the victim that would be an indictable offence so you can arrest them.
If a police officer tells you to detain someone you have to. The officer is taking the responsibility in that case. You still have to use reasonable force.
Can you tell me what legislation that is because I have never heard of it.
Lets clarify a few things, firstly Security Guards only have the same powers of arrest as a citizen, and have to be very careful when enforcing this act so as not to end up with a charge of assault and/or wrongful Imprisonment. Searching, a security Guard can only search you with your permission and must not do a search inside your clothing, again this could lead to a charge of assault, and same sex search must be conducted. If you set of alarms when leaving the store, a few things have to be done prior to you been arrested (unless you are seen to deliberatly remove goods from a store without any attempt to purchase.)
1) A check of your goods against a till receipt
2) Security tags Removed
3) Security lables not deactivated properly at check out.
If you are approached because the alarm has been activated and you know that you have paid for all your items, i do not see why anyone would not co-operate, it shows the public that the store and you are doing right.
With restraint, a security guard can use minimum force as necessary to arrest should they feel that there is or has been a threat of violence or they fear for themseves or members of the public to a threat of violence. (what is minimum force, well theres another discussion as it is widely interpreted in law).
1) A check of your goods against a till receipt
2) Security tags Removed
3) Security lables not deactivated properly at check out.
If you are approached because the alarm has been activated and you know that you have paid for all your items, i do not see why anyone would not co-operate, it shows the public that the store and you are doing right.
With restraint, a security guard can use minimum force as necessary to arrest should they feel that there is or has been a threat of violence or they fear for themseves or members of the public to a threat of violence. (what is minimum force, well theres another discussion as it is widely interpreted in law).
Interesting thread, a much disussed one. I can only speak from 9 years experience as a policeman, not in the UK, however in a country that adopted the Westminster system.
In so far as a 'citizen's arrest', I don't think there really is such a thing. As a security guard you might try your luck detaining a suspect and handing them to the police if you are certain they have comitted a crime, but you better be sure, otherwise you might end up the one in the watchhouse facing charges of assault and deprivation of liberty.
Even if they have, you still have to take into consideration the amount of evidence available, and whether a conviction can be secured. If not, they could turn the tables on you. Best move is to bluff without force, and gain co-operation. If they won't co-operate and decamp, best move would be to follow, keep them in sight, use your mobile phone and contact the police.
Police Officers arrest people when they have the evidence, interviews, incriminating statements, witnesses etc. After arresting there are set proceedures for police, a 'citizen' making an 'arrest' would have no idea of what to do.
In so far as searching someone in a retail store, where I come from a security has no power to do such, unless there is consent, and even then I would be very reluctant to search their person. Even touching someone is an assault, and if they consented to the search under duress they may have a civil case against the person carrying out the search.
I had an interesting experience at one point doing P.I. work, using a hidden camera in a retail store to film a subject who'd entered the store. Somehow one of the staff had realised what was happening, and I was confronted by the manager.
I left the store immediately, and was followed by the manager, who demanded I hand over my footage. What right did she have to it...nil. I'd left the store because it was clear I wasn't welcome there anymore, however I owned the film, just because it was taken in her store gave her no rights to it, as she felt she had.
She called a security, and they both went very close to crossing the line. Had they done, I would have taken action. So be careful with these types of things, the person you may be lining up to forcibly search may be a solicitor, policeman, judge or any bush lawyer, and they'll do something about it if you overstep the mark.
In so far as a 'citizen's arrest', I don't think there really is such a thing. As a security guard you might try your luck detaining a suspect and handing them to the police if you are certain they have comitted a crime, but you better be sure, otherwise you might end up the one in the watchhouse facing charges of assault and deprivation of liberty.
Even if they have, you still have to take into consideration the amount of evidence available, and whether a conviction can be secured. If not, they could turn the tables on you. Best move is to bluff without force, and gain co-operation. If they won't co-operate and decamp, best move would be to follow, keep them in sight, use your mobile phone and contact the police.
Police Officers arrest people when they have the evidence, interviews, incriminating statements, witnesses etc. After arresting there are set proceedures for police, a 'citizen' making an 'arrest' would have no idea of what to do.
In so far as searching someone in a retail store, where I come from a security has no power to do such, unless there is consent, and even then I would be very reluctant to search their person. Even touching someone is an assault, and if they consented to the search under duress they may have a civil case against the person carrying out the search.
I had an interesting experience at one point doing P.I. work, using a hidden camera in a retail store to film a subject who'd entered the store. Somehow one of the staff had realised what was happening, and I was confronted by the manager.
I left the store immediately, and was followed by the manager, who demanded I hand over my footage. What right did she have to it...nil. I'd left the store because it was clear I wasn't welcome there anymore, however I owned the film, just because it was taken in her store gave her no rights to it, as she felt she had.
She called a security, and they both went very close to crossing the line. Had they done, I would have taken action. So be careful with these types of things, the person you may be lining up to forcibly search may be a solicitor, policeman, judge or any bush lawyer, and they'll do something about it if you overstep the mark.
From the Training Material for English Security Staff
To prevent the person in question
Hope this is of use to some of you
Basha72
Any person can arrest a person who is in the act of committing an indictable offence
or Anyone whom he reasonably suspects to be committing such an offence, if
it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead and
it is necessary to arrest the person for one of the below reasons:
To prevent the person in question
•
causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
•
suffering physical injury;
•
causing loss of or damage to property; or
•
making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him
•Theft,
•Robbery,
•Burglary,
•Aggravated burglary,
•Deception
•Assault – ABH & GBH / Wounding only
•Possession of an offensive weapon,
Sexual offences,
•Making off without payment
•Criminal damage,
•Being on enclosed premises for an unlawful purpose
•Possession of drugs
•Public Order Act 1986 Section 38 - Contamination or Interference with Goods
•Breach of the Peace
There are about 290 + offences
Individuals have the power to arrest without warrant anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or suspected of having done so.
“A person is seen acting furtively in a store by a retail security officer. The person hides behind a display counter and is seen to put his hand inside his coat. He does this two more times and leaves the store having made no purchases. He is arrested outside the store. The arrest is justified under S24 (4)(b) if, as is likely, the observed conduct is accepted as reasonable grounds for suspecting that he is in the act of committing an indictable offence, even if he was not in fact committing an indictable offenceâ€. [Lidstone and Palmer;1995]
Normally, you will not be involved with suspicious incidents and are more concerned with events that you have witnessed happening. That is to say, the indictable offence has been committed. However, you must understand the concept of reasonable grounds for suspicion, if you are to avoid making unlawful arrests.
What is an indictable offence?
•Theft,
•Robbery,
•Burglary,
•Aggravated burglary,
•Deception
•Assault – ABH & GBH / Wounding only
•Possession of an offensive weapon,
Sexual offences,
•Making off without payment
•Criminal damage,
•Being on enclosed premises for an unlawful purpose
•Possession of drugs
•Public Order Act 1986 Section 38 - Contamination or Interference with Goods
•Breach of the Peace
There are about 290 + offences
Individuals have the power to arrest without warrant anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or suspected of having done so.
There is an objective test to determine ‘reasonable grounds’ that is:
Would a normal and reasonable person have been suspicious in the circumstances? Most people do have a concept of ‘normal’ and ‘reasonable’ and particularly, what is unreasonable behavior in the circumstances. However, reasonable grounds for suspicion does not include hunches or gut feelings. It must be based on circumstantial evidence, evidence of other facts that indicate with some certainty that the fact of the matter is true.
“A person is seen acting furtively in a store by a retail security officer. The person hides behind a display counter and is seen to put his hand inside his coat. He does this two more times and leaves the store having made no purchases. He is arrested outside the store. The arrest is justified under S24 (4)(b) if, as is likely, the observed conduct is accepted as reasonable grounds for suspecting that he is in the act of committing an indictable offence, even if he was not in fact committing an indictable offenceâ€. [Lidstone and Palmer;1995]
Normally, you will not be involved with suspicious incidents and are more concerned with events that you have witnessed happening. That is to say, the indictable offence has been committed. However, you must understand the concept of reasonable grounds for suspicion, if you are to avoid making unlawful arrests.
Basha72
Thanks Basha72...interesting to see how much scope and what powers are available over there...in black and white. That pretty well settles the issue for the UK.
Lot more restricted here (in the state of Australia where I was a policeman)...both for police officers and security guards. You really need an ironclad case to arrest and secure a conviction.
Lot more restricted here (in the state of Australia where I was a policeman)...both for police officers and security guards. You really need an ironclad case to arrest and secure a conviction.
Basha72, a question for you. What power does security have to search people in retail stores in the UK?
Over here no power to do so unless consented to. They make it a condition of entry to provide the contents of bags etc on leaving, however they don't really have any way of enforcing this, other than refusing entry the next time round.
Even for police their powers of search prior to arrest are very limited, with some powers to detain and search under drugs legislation and a few other pieces of legislation. For security no power to do so when someone is leaving a retail store.
This question goes right back to the start of the thread, and as a trainer in this area in the UK, how does it work over there?
Over here no power to do so unless consented to. They make it a condition of entry to provide the contents of bags etc on leaving, however they don't really have any way of enforcing this, other than refusing entry the next time round.
Even for police their powers of search prior to arrest are very limited, with some powers to detain and search under drugs legislation and a few other pieces of legislation. For security no power to do so when someone is leaving a retail store.
This question goes right back to the start of the thread, and as a trainer in this area in the UK, how does it work over there?
In Retail
You will get many types of guards who will do all sorts of things, some get away with it some don't, bear in mind many scallywags know as much about the law as we do !
In general when a shoplifter gets caught, we can ask them to empty the bag out to show what they have stolen, or they carryout a self search and then the Management more often than not make a decision on recovery or call the Police, some stores set a £££ limit some call for everything. WE CANNOT remove items from the Bag, or the Person only Police have the Powers to to do so, If the shoplifter refuses to show us what they have, it will strenghen the case agaisnt the Offender when the Police turn up.
When the EAS goes off we usally ask the person if they have bought anything that may have a tag on it and if so we would go to customer services and they would check agaisnt the receipt and de tag etc. Or in other cases they have items from other shops.
I know in Night clubs that a condition of entry, is you will be searched ranging from pat down to bag search, this is mainly due to the drug and weapons culture we live in today. and this should be clearly stated and displayed before entry to the clubs.
In most and all shops I have ever been in I have never seen a sign that says you or your bags may be searched on entry or exit of these premises, "I am not saying that these don't exist but I've not seen any down this way.
So again if you have no signs indicating what may happen in your store you should not be searching peoples bags, you should ask them to empty, then get the Police if they refuse to show.
I've found that if you treat people ok they will be fine with you, if you rough them up there is more chance they will try to get you done! if it turns out to be a false stop !
Basha72
You will get many types of guards who will do all sorts of things, some get away with it some don't, bear in mind many scallywags know as much about the law as we do !
In general when a shoplifter gets caught, we can ask them to empty the bag out to show what they have stolen, or they carryout a self search and then the Management more often than not make a decision on recovery or call the Police, some stores set a £££ limit some call for everything. WE CANNOT remove items from the Bag, or the Person only Police have the Powers to to do so, If the shoplifter refuses to show us what they have, it will strenghen the case agaisnt the Offender when the Police turn up.
When the EAS goes off we usally ask the person if they have bought anything that may have a tag on it and if so we would go to customer services and they would check agaisnt the receipt and de tag etc. Or in other cases they have items from other shops.
I know in Night clubs that a condition of entry, is you will be searched ranging from pat down to bag search, this is mainly due to the drug and weapons culture we live in today. and this should be clearly stated and displayed before entry to the clubs.
In most and all shops I have ever been in I have never seen a sign that says you or your bags may be searched on entry or exit of these premises, "I am not saying that these don't exist but I've not seen any down this way.
So again if you have no signs indicating what may happen in your store you should not be searching peoples bags, you should ask them to empty, then get the Police if they refuse to show.
I've found that if you treat people ok they will be fine with you, if you rough them up there is more chance they will try to get you done! if it turns out to be a false stop !
Basha72
'I know in Night clubs that a condition of entry, is you will be searched ranging from pat down to bag search, this is mainly due to the drug and weapons culture we live in today. and this should be clearly stated and displayed before entry to the clubs.'
Not sure of what the go is over here these days, although I would imagine it would be much the same. Security have the right to refuse entry to the premises, therefore if you failed to meet their conditions, you don't go in.
'In most and all shops I have ever been in I have never seen a sign that says you or your bags may be searched on entry or exit of these premises, "I am not saying that these don't exist but I've not seen any down this way.'
I have been in a few retail stores over here that have had signage to the effect that it is a condition of entry that you make your bags available for inspection on exiting.
'I've found that if you treat people ok they will be fine with you, if you rough them up there is more chance they will try to get you done! if it turns out to be a false stop !'
I agree with you 100% on this one. If you try to play the 'heavy', there is a good chance it will come back and bite you on the backside if you get it wrong.
An example of horses for courses and how things differ from area to area, country to country even in the British Commonwealth. On your list of indictable offences, our equivalents to your possession of an offensive weapon - and breach of the peace, are not indictable offences, both are dealt with summarily.
Another question if you don't mind answering. In Australia there are 6 states and 2 territories, each with their own police forces, and each with their own applicable legislation dealing with offences, criminal or otherwise.
From what I understand there are a number of police forces in England. How are they separated? Does each different area have it's own laws, or is there one set of legislation for the whole of England? Is there some sort of central controlling body for your police services over there?
Not sure of what the go is over here these days, although I would imagine it would be much the same. Security have the right to refuse entry to the premises, therefore if you failed to meet their conditions, you don't go in.
'In most and all shops I have ever been in I have never seen a sign that says you or your bags may be searched on entry or exit of these premises, "I am not saying that these don't exist but I've not seen any down this way.'
I have been in a few retail stores over here that have had signage to the effect that it is a condition of entry that you make your bags available for inspection on exiting.
'I've found that if you treat people ok they will be fine with you, if you rough them up there is more chance they will try to get you done! if it turns out to be a false stop !'
I agree with you 100% on this one. If you try to play the 'heavy', there is a good chance it will come back and bite you on the backside if you get it wrong.
An example of horses for courses and how things differ from area to area, country to country even in the British Commonwealth. On your list of indictable offences, our equivalents to your possession of an offensive weapon - and breach of the peace, are not indictable offences, both are dealt with summarily.
Another question if you don't mind answering. In Australia there are 6 states and 2 territories, each with their own police forces, and each with their own applicable legislation dealing with offences, criminal or otherwise.
From what I understand there are a number of police forces in England. How are they separated? Does each different area have it's own laws, or is there one set of legislation for the whole of England? Is there some sort of central controlling body for your police services over there?
Fred2882, The Police forces in the England and Wales work in each county 43 Police forces not including Scotland or Ireland.
They all work to the same Legislation, but Operational control is down to the Chief Constable of the area.
The Police Authority overlook them all I think.
I'm betting there are People on here who are better placed to discuss the structure of the Poilce in England and wales, But I hope that kind of answers your question.
Cheers Basha72
They all work to the same Legislation, but Operational control is down to the Chief Constable of the area.
The Police Authority overlook them all I think.
I'm betting there are People on here who are better placed to discuss the structure of the Poilce in England and wales, But I hope that kind of answers your question.
Cheers Basha72
dont know how accurate my SG training was but it says thet you may arrest someone if you reasonably suspect someone of a crime, in the case of barriers going off i wouldnt arrest, ever, wheelchairs and prams can set them off amongst other things, and just because someone has a security tag on an item doesnt mean it is from your store. i wouldnt arrest on someone elses behalf unless i was 100 % sure they had committed an indictable offence, its just not worth the flak you get if theyre wrong
In Retail
You will get many types of guards who will do all sorts of things, some get away with it some don't, bear in mind many scallywags know as much about the law as we do !
In general when a shoplifter gets caught, we can ask them to empty the bag out to show what they have stolen, or they carryout a self search and then the Management more often than not make a decision on recovery or call the Police, some stores set a £££ limit some call for everything. WE CANNOT remove items from the Bag, or the Person only Police have the Powers to to do so, If the shoplifter refuses to show us what they have, it will strenghen the case agaisnt the Offender when the Police turn up.
When the EAS goes off we usally ask the person if they have bought anything that may have a tag on it and if so we would go to customer services and they would check agaisnt the receipt and de tag etc. Or in other cases they have items from other shops.
I know in Night clubs that a condition of entry, is you will be searched ranging from pat down to bag search, this is mainly due to the drug and weapons culture we live in today. and this should be clearly stated and displayed before entry to the clubs.
In most and all shops I have ever been in I have never seen a sign that says you or your bags may be searched on entry or exit of these premises, "I am not saying that these don't exist but I've not seen any down this way.
So again if you have no signs indicating what may happen in your store you should not be searching peoples bags, you should ask them to empty, then get the Police if they refuse to show.
Basha72
have to say your pretty spoton there mate, but if youre ever in hull go into their main toys'r'us store they have one sign saying security officers operate in this store, we reserve the right to search anyone entering this store (well it goes something like that, more the type of sign you expect in a nightclub though) oh and its on the way out not on the entrance.
I agree with you on this on Kirk...this was what I was trying to say earlier in this thread. You have to be sure on what you do.
Because I work as security these days...albeit not in retail...I spoke to a few colleagues about this thread, and the recent training they did to get their licenses here in Australia.
I have been told of one example given in their security training of a large civil judgement against a retailer over the actions of it's security, detaining a female on suspicion of theft, when in fact she had not done anything.
From what I've been told there were several security officers involved, and they did not actually touch her, but surrounded her and demanded she return to the store, which she did under this duress. She sued and was successful.
Don't know what their grounds, other than a subjective belief, were for taking this action, and I don't know if the security guys involved were individually held liable.
Having said that there isn't any harm in asking people to co-operate in checking the contents of their bags, emptying their pockets. Most co-operate if asked the right way, even if guilty ones.
My other reference to a citizens arrest in a previous post wasn't very well explained. What I meant was the practical side of it in terms of what an arrest means.
It can be done over here by anyone as well, however you have to know what you are doing as well with that, in following the entire process through and what is required, as opposed to detaining someone and handing them to the police.
dont get many of those prosecutions here but that sounds spot on, i believe the law about citezens arrest says that any person other than a constable can arrest, anyone whom is in the process of committing a criminal offence, anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for committing an offence etc, however the physical aspects arent explained clearly at all, we come back to the much hated phrase reasonable force, so sorry if that wasnt much help but im afraid tthats all i got off the top of my head, chher pal
Thanks Kirk. Don't think people taking security officers to court has been a frequent occurrence here, but it has happened.
From what I've read in this thread it seems you guys over there probably have a little more lattitude anyway in dealing with these situations.
On the question of reasonable force, it would probably be an objective test, what would the average person consider reasonable? Probably force proportionate to the level of resistance, to overcome it, and no more than that.
Bear in mind in a serious escalation things can go bad for the guard. We had an incident over here a few years ago where a female guard on cash in transit duty was assaulted and robbed, and then pursued the armed robber and shot him dead after the robbery, when he'd gotten into a car and was trying to escape.
After much media pressure from the family of the fellow she shot, she was charged with murder. It was argued the force was excessive, the robbery had already taken place and at the time she shot him he was attempting to escape, and it had gone past the point of where she had to defend herself.
Thanksfully she was acquitted, but no doubt the whole episode caused her enormous stress.
From what I've read in this thread it seems you guys over there probably have a little more lattitude anyway in dealing with these situations.
On the question of reasonable force, it would probably be an objective test, what would the average person consider reasonable? Probably force proportionate to the level of resistance, to overcome it, and no more than that.
Bear in mind in a serious escalation things can go bad for the guard. We had an incident over here a few years ago where a female guard on cash in transit duty was assaulted and robbed, and then pursued the armed robber and shot him dead after the robbery, when he'd gotten into a car and was trying to escape.
After much media pressure from the family of the fellow she shot, she was charged with murder. It was argued the force was excessive, the robbery had already taken place and at the time she shot him he was attempting to escape, and it had gone past the point of where she had to defend herself.
Thanksfully she was acquitted, but no doubt the whole episode caused her enormous stress.