CP and RST Pay Scales/ New Rates proposed.

See, when I see anything with a government stamp on it, I think "Lowest Common Denominator" and one picked by a bureaucrat at that!

I don't really see a problem with the tiers though. I mean the standard SIA cred is already "Level 3". I'm sure there's a need to put bums in seats for some roles. Watch some TV monitors, act as a deterrent body in a low threat situation, etc. So I don't mind the existance of the lower tier. Someone doesn't need "special forces" type tactical and weapons training to do that and so it serves a need.

I'm just proposing to raise the bar and to have something "official" that tells people the calibre of the people. Even if it's not a government thing. Even if it"s a private organization, just by being rigorous in its issue, within a few years that "stamp" starts being sought after. There's quite a few examples of this in computer security for example.

As for the employers needing to make the change I don't agree. It's a free market. If you want to consider the people seeking the best operatives as a niche market, then niche security companies or niche divisions of existing ones will pop up to cater that niche. Or this new certifying body (which can be as simple as 50-100 expert operatives banding together) can become an employers of sorts either as a company proper or as a referral service.

Currently there's just nothing out there to make that differentiation between the pros and the donut eaters.
 
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Missed some of what you said Rich. Your example of a company providing only high end services/operators is quite parallel to what I'm saying. Essentially they would build that reputation that anyone hired through them is an expert. My original idea would just give the operators some more flexibility in that anyone certified by that organization is an expert so the operator still has the choice of companies or just working freelance while maintaining the "expert" stamp.
 
Agreed, I suppose I was just stating the obvious, as a principal I would almost certainly "vet" all applicants to ensure that they fullfilled my criteria irrespective of whatever licence or piece of paper they waved. It is a sorry state of affairs when time served operators are unavoidably linked to short term get rich quick merchants, but get rich quick and die without experience is the motto of the day. This is in no way meant to malign anyone out there but just the way the world of C.P etc is going.
 
Well, we can complain about it or do something about it.

I'm willing to bet there's enough solid operators on here with enough years in the business and loyal clients to band together and hold themselves to a higher standard. Once that standard is set, official or otherwise, then others meeting that standard can be brought into the fray.

Even for me personally belonging to a professional organization is more important than outright pay. If the basic bills (and training/equipment) are paid then the work is its own reward for me. I'd must rather take a pay cut than work with buffoons, but as I said there is a minimal level of compensation required in order to be able to provide a professional service (unless your company is providing it).

If there are some "pillar" members willing to band together in such a way then I'd be glad to support it in any way I can (I cannot myself even presume to be "at the level" I envision a true professional - but I'm working on it!). Well worth it to protect this line of work and professional standard.
 
Rich.

Yes :) Based on your initial post I think that fits the bill quite well. I'll continue there since it may be more pertinent, and certainly more recent.
 
To be honest, in my experience (from seeing the buying end) anyone who might be serious enough about their protection team to consider those from some flash new 'group' of highly qualified officers is already doing so - recruiting SIA holders who were also members of such quaint clubs as the SAS and RMP CP :-)

thats slightly tongue in cheek, but not fully - the point is good CP jobs do look at the CV, not just the SIA qualification.

So im not sure if we need any other 'bodies' - unless its pitched at the level of 'better than someone who has just done a CP course, but not special forces' :-)

All the best

Steve
 
This is one of those threads that doesn't really get answered does it to be honest, there are many why's and what for's and what if's. There isn't a great deal of Close Protection work outthere today, well I say not alot, but there is if you know the right people etc. This "circuit" which alot of the new qualified CP people talk about is actually very small, and if I can use the term a "select few" actually work it, and have regular work, my ex father in law being one of them, yes made up of mainly ex SF guys but more the "old school" era. Rates of pay, well not something I know, but I would imagine pretty well paid. For the rest of us, yes it seems not greatest paid but then again as has been said, theres lots of training providers churning out people and alot will work for nothing just to get something.

An example of pay, a friend of mine, ex copper, been doing surveillance for over 13 years has regular clients, however he has said, a client isnt so much intrested as much today with a people experience but more a daily rate, ie lowest will get the gig, in which he has said he has had to drop his to keep his clients, ok some may say stands etc, but his daily rate has dropped from £220 a day to £160, which to most would say is still good, but as he has said it will only go lower and lower as the course providers turn over so many people releasing them into the market. Just the way of the world I guess.

CP is no different, however knowing someone on a good number is still a great way of getting in the door. Yes people say RST is a good way to go, and I have to say it is indeed as Iv'e done it myself, b ut also found the "walter" there as well and a TL not good and after my first night there I new he was full of it as he couldn't answer simple questions with regards to0 the residence procedures etc etc etc etc. And that job didnt pay mega bucks but £170 a day for a TL is not bad cash at all and £150 an operator, and yes I would do that number again if I was in the UK as it was pretty good apart from the one or two numpties.

LOL OK ive waffled along abit there but I think I get the point across alittle there.
 
steve23 said:
To be honest, in my experience (from seeing the buying end) anyone who might be serious enough about their protection team to consider those from some flash new 'group' of highly qualified officers is already doing so - recruiting SIA holders who were also members of such quaint clubs as the SAS and RMP CP :-)

thats slightly tongue in cheek, but not fully - the point is good CP jobs do look at the CV, not just the SIA qualification.

So im not sure if we need any other 'bodies' - unless its pitched at the level of 'better than someone who has just done a CP course, but not special forces' :-)

All the best

Steve
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For sure. I think a lot of this is actually about "consumer" education. Savvy clients will do their homework and find good people, either by CV (Which is frankly not *that* great a way of selecting people. Paper and reality often differ even if everything on paper is technically true), or reputation or trusted referrals.

But there are definitely clients (might be just a few, might be a lot) who actually do want serious protection (or a higher level of service in non-CP roles) but just don't know better on how to select the people. Educating them obviously helps them make better choices but also creates a few more slots for the better CPOs.

Again, the UK is one of the few places that even has a CP accreditation, so in most places there is ONLY reputation. Kind of sad that the thing that's supposed to ensure the skills is actually commoditizing the profession and allowing those who wouldn't normally be considered to wave a plastic card showing that are *are* in fact "qualified".

Cheers!
 
I for one would be more than interested in some sort of organisation / union....

Having said that, I genuinely believe that the difficulties said organisation / union would face in trying to increase rates etc may prove to be insurmountable. However, if someone with enough spare time to organize such a group did so I would willingly become part of it and would help out wherever possible.
 
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