Foot Surveillance Training vid - thoughts?

S

Sabre

Longterm Registered User
http://youtu.be/W7BY3v-DXDI

My only thought was Charlie needs to hang back a bit, if the subject glances to the right he could easily ping him, the commentator/trainer says Charlie should be level with the subject (at his 3 o clock) but if he hangs back he could increase his pace slightly when the subject approaches the corner to clear it for Alpha. Is it a good idea to be so close to the `10-2`?
Wouldn`t mind hearing the thoughts of the more experienced among us.

(This is obviously in the public domain so doesn`t breach Opsec and a popular International Bestselling Book looks at this in some detail!)
 
Sabre said:
My only thought was Charlie needs to hang back a bit
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I agree there but was that your only thought? Things may have changed since I did my course but did you see nothing wrong when the subject went North and stopped? Nothing wrong about the 3/4 hand signals? Nothing wrong with who goes where after the subject carries on North?

£250 for a 2 day course and only £8 for the ebook. Seems like a bargain to me:)
 
I was hoping to get other peoples thoughts really, i don`t like how Charlie just stops and observes the subject, especially after is 3 o clock position! Also when the subject carries on north nobody has changed position - Alpha should cross over to the offside , Bravo should take the eyeball and Charlie should be back up? Prefers hand signals to covert comms?!
 
Sabre said:
I was hoping to get other peoples thoughts really, i don`t like how Charlie just stops and observes the subject, especially after is 3 o clock position! Also when the subject carries on north nobody has changed position - Alpha should cross over to the offside , Bravo should take the eyeball and Charlie should be back up? Prefers hand signals to covert comms?!
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So post #1 wasn't your only thought then?:)

I haven't read the book you refer to but since you have done the course I am glad it wasn't how that video portrayed......It wasn't was it?????

Covert comms are great but when they fail you have to have something to revert to so hand signals are a must. You never know if Rich H is just round the corner on a book signing with one of his many jammers plugged in the waiting Limo outside:)

There was one glaringly obvious hand signal not used/discussed but maybe it will come up in the next episode.

I do hope this the kind of course the bad guys go on.......
 
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Not my only thought no and i admit the course i went on was somewhat different ;)

I agree knowledge of hand signals is needed in case of loss of comms (Rich H!)

Would the anticipated hand signal in the next episode be Standby Standby? :)
 
As many other TPs and manuals/handbooks/bibles around, he seems to come from Rigid School... A goes there, B goes there, C goes there... and such a framework moves around the red dot like some kind of fixed structure, a big ship maneuvering in a crowded port. Ok, everybody has to start somewhere but it's pretty easy to fall into the mistake of taking that as law, at first he even considers everybody crossing the street when the individual under surveillance decides to do so (something he might have done precisely with that purpose), it must be that your lucky letter in A-B-C is assigned for life. It's like those CP formations they teach, they are like they say they are and it seems they can't be changed or better say adapted according to the situation. You go there, you there and you there, you do this, you do that and you do that, period. Real life is much more flexible and unexpected than that. As for comms not being really covert, I wonder what kind of covert comms he has thinking of, speaking to the fist and having something curling down from your ear? Sure you need a backup (some kind of signal) when technology decides to go funny but I think he also needs to consider changing his tech provider.
 
Hi Guys, i apprceciate that there are many scenerios to this video and the main thing is flexibility. The way i would do this is if the subject turned the corner and C see's the subject walking down the road then C crosses the road to become A as A see's C crossing the road, this is a signal that the subject is still walking down the road. A crosses the road and takes up C position this is so he would not be level with the subject but just to the subject 5 o clock. B stays as B. The comment about the covert ear pieces i dont quiet understand, if he is talking about the wire to the ear equipment then yes you might get some funny looks, as for the induction sets that have a deaf type ear piece then i cant see anyone stopping you. As for the covert radios i and my team usually wear under the vest shoulder holster radio carrier which is covert. The ptt is situated in a trouser pocket, and the mic works on the throat vibrations. The other implications are, is the subject surveillance aware, has there been any sort of anti surveillance moves by the subject. Mobiles can be used as a back up to the radios. I cant see why you would be stopped by the police, i never have, if one of the team did then the rest could carry on. If the subject crosses the road then C would become A and A would become C again B stays as B and crosses the road. Of course at some stage the team should rotate their positions. maybe then there would be no need for one of the team to start break dancing in the middle of the street. What the person does not say in the video is who is responsible for a, videoing the subjects movements, b, who is the bag guy, that takes the close up shots, Paddy
 
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PADDYOS said:
The way i would do this is if the subject turned the corner and C see's the subject walking down the road then C crosses the road to become A as A see's C crossing the road, this is a signal that the subject is still walking down the road. A crosses the road and takes up C position this is so he would not be level with the subject but just to the subject 5 o clock. B stays as B.
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If, as you say, C becomes A and A is already round the corner taking up C how does B know it is safe to come round the corner. Subject may have turned back on himself and B gets 240 volt shocker. Poor old B also never gets to change his letter as at every corner he remains B:(

Wouldn't it be better if C put A and B round the corner?

So A becomes C. B becomes A and then C becomes B.
 
How would you go about that rhea? If the subject does a 180 in front of the eyeball and you are facing directly at each other. I was taught when using radios to use a certain word that you can say without moving your lips. It would have to be a natural or very discreet signal but easily identifiable. What were you taught to do / what do you use?
 
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Sabre said:
How would you go about that rhea? If the subject does a 180 in front of the eyeball and you are facing directly at each other. I was taught when using radios to use a certain word that you can say without moving your lips. It would have to be a natural or very discreet signal but easily identifiable. What were you taught to do / what do you use?
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Still going on a basic A,B,C formation then really your scenario above should not happen as the closest man should really be C who should always be on the "wide line" and a face to face should not occur.

As you say with radio's it is fairly easy. When I was with plod and nowadays we use a numbers code for almost everything so a quick "eighty eight" and every available phone box would be utilised:)

But there were many a time we didn't, and still don't, use radios depending on the Intel of where the subject might go so hand and head signals are quite easy and are often quicker and easier to use.

For a 180 it was opening and closing of the hand and or, if there was lots of cover, then C taking cover would mean A and B taking cover and keeping eyeball on C's last, till either the subject goes past or C pops back out again to give further instructions.
 
rhea said:
As I haven't read the book is it different?
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Not so different really. I think it is more a combined mix of Military and Police tactics, airing on the Military side due to the author and course instructors backgrounds. I take you are/were Police trained? I would be interested to compare the two to see if there are any differences, there is also the Government training (you know who i mean) but i don`t suppose i will get much info from these operators!
 
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