Marsec roe

Covert Munkey

Covert Munkey

Administrator
MARSEC ROE card.

Can anyone help me out with an example of MARSEC rules of engagement?

Got a bit of a bite on something and would like to help them out?

Thank you,

CM
 
CM Hope this will help mate!

Rules of Engagement

Dom explained the Rules of Engagement (ROE) used by the onboard teams deployed by PVI.
“We have based it loosely on the [Royal Navy] model, [and it] has then gone through our company lawyers. It does get adjusted slightly to certain flag states…[and] it is commercialised [and adjusted] for different flags. So there is no one glove that fits all….. the flag state approve our actions. At the same time we work with our TLs [Team Leaders]. We send a copy [of the ROE] to the Coalition [Forces] as well. I think the key thing is… and we have demonstrated this on the ground, is that using lethal force is [used] when all else is lost… and there is no way that you can stop this happening to endanger your life. It is down to the individual to make that decision.†He added: “if someone is pointing an AK47 at one of our guys and he thinks he is going to be shot dead, the right of self defence still remain. Whatever [the] scenario, it all boils down to the inherent right to defend yourself…â€
​
I asked what legal support they have
“We have to use our company lawyers at every stage…….we are on the radar of a lot of people ….. and it’s important that we do things right. To offer it [armed protection] illegally down there is getting harde.â€


Out
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Roe

Altezza said:
CM Hope this will help mate!

Rules of Engagement

Dom explained the Rules of Engagement (ROE) used by the onboard teams deployed by PVI.
“We have based it loosely on the [Royal Navy] model, [and it] has then gone through our company lawyers. It does get adjusted slightly to certain flag states…[and] it is commercialised [and adjusted] for different flags. So there is no one glove that fits all….. the flag state approve our actions. At the same time we work with our TLs [Team Leaders]. We send a copy [of the ROE] to the Coalition [Forces] as well. I think the key thing is… and we have demonstrated this on the ground, is that using lethal force is [used] when all else is lost… and there is no way that you can stop this happening to endanger your life. It is down to the individual to make that decision.†He added: “if someone is pointing an AK47 at one of our guys and he thinks he is going to be shot dead, the right of self defence still remain. Whatever [the] scenario, it all boils down to the inherent right to defend yourself…â€
​
I asked what legal support they have
“We have to use our company lawyers at every stage…….we are on the radar of a lot of people ….. and it’s important that we do things right. To offer it [armed protection] illegally down there is getting harder.â€


Out
​
Click to expand...
I am presently on armed anti piracy in the GOA / Red sea the ROE we use are basically the same as the military ROE for example if they are about to endanger life 'thin line' you may shoot them obviously using min force.
 
Might be a play on words but as commercial PSD in Iraq and the Stan use, I prefer the terminology RUF (Rules for the use of force)

We are civilians using force if necessary, not engaging in combat as defined by the Geneva convention.

One man's view!
John
 
Ruf

imsaltd said:
Might be a play on words but as commercial PSD in Iraq and the Stan use, I prefer the terminology RUF (Rules for the use of force)

We are civilians using force if necessary, not engaging in combat as defined by the Geneva convention.

One man's view!
John
Click to expand...
Hi John

Did the SSO & PFSO with you last year, I know its not on the subject list but suppose you could slip it in somewhere maybe during ship defenses, if you do not already?

Andy
 
Leebo said:
Hi John

Did the SSO & PFSO with you last year, I know its not on the subject list but suppose you could slip it in somewhere maybe during ship defenses, if you do not already?

Andy
Click to expand...

Andy

Thanks for thr heads up. We do cover it on the recently introduced SSO plus+ cse.

I was driven down the route of RUF by the big boys on the block when putting together a marsec project last year in the NAG. Started out with ROE in the SOPs but quickly told to change it to RUF inline with current practice for commercial operators in theatre at that time.

John
 
imsaltd said:
Andy

Thanks for thr heads up. We do cover it on the recently introduced SSO plus+ cse.

I was driven down the route of RUF by the big boys on the block when putting together a marsec project last year in the NAG. Started out with ROE in the SOPs but quickly told to change it to RUF inline with current practice for commercial operators in theatre at that time.

John
Click to expand...
John
Good to see you have your end covered, not in a position to make changes on my job, but if given the chance will bring it up! the industry could do with singing off the same song sheet, don't you think?
Regards
Andy
 
Remember the key thing is the flag state....on the basis that you are not using lethal force in someones territorial waters in which case their laws apply as well. Also those flag states often do not allow the use of anything more than a single shot rifle or shot gun.

There is a hugely fine line between when lethal force is allowed or not and this becomes more blurred when you apply it to protection of property. Look at what happened to the Israelis whne they boarded the Mavi Marmara and then found themselves in a "self defence " situation....For a ship owner the important thing is to clear the carrying of weapons with his insurer. It will only matter when it matters ie when serious damage is done to ship and or cargo and then all sorts of questions will be asked about competence of armed teams and if the insurers dont know and illegal force is used or indeed teh wromg weapon is used then any claim may not be paid.

There is no accountability out there apart from self regulation and most strive to keep the right side of the line. But there have been shootings of armed men in boats but very little follow up by flag states.....not helped that when they do get on board the team has long gone and all the master can remember is that the leader was called Pete and lived near Poole.
 
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