Seaman's Book advice

P

Para88

Forum supporter -Para88 has donated to the forum
Hi lads, I need some advice from ppl that went down the same way.


Seaman's book...you need STCW 95 in order to apply for one, plus medical...where I leave.

Now my question is would you bother to get one since the companies look only on the certificate and in reality put you on the transit as passager and not as a crew,???? so no point or service off seaman's book.


Further more in order to be SSO where I leave you need to get year services on the boat, recorded in the seaman's book, funny as we see so many that do SSO course and jet don't have seaman's book.....


So whats all behind that of having or not having an seaman's book??? STCW95 can be proven with certificate is it?? or the fact that in order to have seaman's book you need to pas medical and have hassle with authority



Tnx,

Para
 
Para,

Firstly let me just clear it up that you don't need STCW95 in order to apply for a UK Seamans Card and Discharge Book. Nor do you need a the ENG1 medical for the books.

The way you get the books is to have a Marsec Company or a Shipping Company to complete the form from the MCA website to say you're allocated to a particular vessel.

As for being a passenger and not crew, most of the vessels are cargo carriers and don't carry 'passengers'. For the purpose of insurance Marsec Operators are classed as crew and are annotated to the crew list for the duration of their time onboard.

Also...another myth is you won't go onboard as an SSO...unless you do all the courses and go to work for a cruise liner. When Marsec Operators work they're exactly that...they don't assume the role of the SSO as there is already one onboard (normally the First Officer) so the year thing is not an issue when embarking on Marsec duties.

The Seamans Card and Discharge Books are handy for embarking and disembarking in certain countries. And of course, for the tax man to make sure you qualify for SED....may I suggest you download or buy a hardcopy of this quarters The Circuit Magazine as there is a lot of useful info in there in this genre. Hope that helps mucker.
 
Jock thanks for your input...


Our country rules are slightly different re getting and usage of seaman's book. STCW95 or safety on board in rough translation is actually pretty handy in my point off view for any one willing to work on the vessel...

Like I sad we have to have stcw95 to be able to get seaman's book but my dilemma is am I willing to spend cca EUR 110 to get book and never to use it???? in our scenario I don't even want my book to get stamped because then I have to pay a tax or be on the vessel over 183 days( different country's different rules ) its better to stay low and work as every one els ..... but still companies do ask for the book and in many cases you don't get your book stamped ???? so whats the point...


Jock said:
Para,

Firstly let me just clear it up that you don't need STCW95 in order to apply for a UK Seamans Card and Discharge Book. Nor do you need a the ENG1 medical for the books.

The way you get the books is to have a Marsec Company or a Shipping Company to complete the form from the MCA website to say you're allocated to a particular vessel.

As for being a passenger and not crew, most of the vessels are cargo carriers and don't carry 'passengers'. For the purpose of insurance Marsec Operators are classed as crew and are annotated to the crew list for the duration of their time onboard.

Also...another myth is you won't go onboard as an SSO...unless you do all the courses and go to work for a cruise liner. When Marsec Operators work they're exactly that...they don't assume the role of the SSO as there is already one onboard (normally the First Officer) so the year thing is not an issue when embarking on Marsec duties.

The Seamans Card and Discharge Books are handy for embarking and disembarking in certain countries. And of course, for the tax man to make sure you qualify for SED....may I suggest you download or buy a hardcopy of this quarters The Circuit Magazine as there is a lot of useful info in there in this genre. Hope that helps mucker.
Click to expand...
 
Jock said:
Para,

Firstly let me just clear it up that you don't need STCW95 in order to apply for a UK Seamans Card and Discharge Book. Nor do you need a the ENG1 medical for the books.

The way you get the books is to have a Marsec Company or a Shipping Company to complete the form from the MCA website to say you're allocated to a particular vessel.

As for being a passenger and not crew, most of the vessels are cargo carriers and don't carry 'passengers'. For the purpose of insurance Marsec Operators are classed as crew and are annotated to the crew list for the duration of their time onboard.

Also...another myth is you won't go onboard as an SSO...unless you do all the courses and go to work for a cruise liner. When Marsec Operators work they're exactly that...they don't assume the role of the SSO as there is already one onboard (normally the First Officer) so the year thing is not an issue when embarking on Marsec duties.

The Seamans Card and Discharge Books are handy for embarking and disembarking in certain countries. And of course, for the tax man to make sure you qualify for SED....may I suggest you download or buy a hardcopy of this quarters The Circuit Magazine as there is a lot of useful info in there in this genre. Hope that helps mucker.
Click to expand...

Here we get into the grey area.
If you are on a crew list onboard a ship, you MUST have Basic Safety STCW-95 and ENG1.
Most ships put you on the Suplist. to get a way with this.
The poop will hit the fan the moment something would go sour. eg. you will get injured etc. while on a crew list, and you are not crew, right? First questions would include : Where is your contract with the ship? Your familiarization sheets? etc. etc.
 
Kurt said:
Here we get into the grey area.
If you are on a crew list onboard a ship, you MUST have Basic Safety STCW-95 and ENG1.
Most ships put you on the Suplist. to get a way with this.
The poop will hit the fan the moment something would go sour. eg. you will get injured etc. while on a crew list, and you are not crew, right? First questions would include : Where is your contract with the ship? Your familiarization sheets? etc. etc.
Click to expand...

Kurt,

As everyone probably suspects bud, not all Marsec Operators who step on to a vessel have the basic ENG1 or Basic Safety Qualifications...granted things are changing but there are still people out there who have nothing...much the same as some guys doing HE PSD without SIA (not needed but a client stipulation) so as far as the Marsec Sector stands, there's no such thing as 'MUST HAVE'. As far as being on the crew list...yeah, a grey area. They do it for the customs checks when we go alongside and for the purposes of the insurance payout in the event of a hijack, Marsec Ops are classed as crew.

With the firm I work for, the contract between them and the shipping company is always with the Master of the vessel and we are classed as crew and what the stipulations of that contract are. We also do full drills with the crews as part of our embarkation process inline with their own H&S rules....but watch this space as things are changing all the time. Again, lots of good info in this month's The Circuit Magazine when it comes out.

Para....appologies bud...I assumed you were UK based so please feel free to ignore my rambling.
 
I am positive i had to have ENG1 prior to collecting my Seamans Card, in fact i had to go from the medical i was having in Edinburgh over to Greenock to collect it and the first thing he asked for when taking my application of me was my ENG1 certificate.

ENG1 should be the minimum medical requirement for working on Watchkeeping duties too, but i do accept that there are still people working out there for companies that have nothing whatsoever still.
 
UK Seaman's Card & Discharge Book received by post (employer completed its section) without any requirement to indicate or demonstrate ENG1 or STCW95. Might be different applying independently and/or in person.
 
Jock said:
Kurt,

As everyone probably suspects bud, not all Marsec Operators who step on to a vessel have the basic ENG1 or Basic Safety Qualifications...granted things are changing but there are still people out there who have nothing...much the same as some guys doing HE PSD without SIA (not needed but a client stipulation) so as far as the Marsec Sector stands, there's no such thing as 'MUST HAVE'. As far as being on the crew list...yeah, a grey area. They do it for the customs checks when we go alongside and for the purposes of the insurance payout in the event of a hijack, Marsec Ops are classed as crew.

With the firm I work for, the contract between them and the shipping company is always with the Master of the vessel and we are classed as crew and what the stipulations of that contract are. We also do full drills with the crews as part of our embarkation process inline with their own H&S rules....but watch this space as things are changing all the time. Again, lots of good info in this month's The Circuit Magazine when it comes out.

Para....appologies bud...I assumed you were UK based so please feel free to ignore my rambling.
Click to expand...

Right.
As part of PSC MARSEC team, there are no requirements.
As soon as you are a crew member ( on crew list ), you are seagoing personnel, and all that comes with IMO regulations will apply.
Those requirements are the Basic Safety STCW-95 and ENG1 ( International Seafarers Health Certificate ).
There are many incidents where local Seaman's Unions have stopped ships from entering or exiting a port when they found out that all crew members are not qualified according to IMO regulations.
It is just a matter of time when a company will step on its dick with this referred issue.

I have been on a ship that was fined by immigrations officials for putting non crew under crew list.
The contractors were sent back to their country of origin.
 
Kurt,

I totally agree mate...before long it will be the industry standard to have a full STCW95, ENG1 Medical, Yellow Fever Certificate and SSO qualification...there's no doubt about that but until it's being fully enforced, we both know what will happen. I also hear from my accountant that in the not to distant future, it may come about that if you want to apply for SED, you'll have to have all the requisit seafaring qualifications and certificates so that in itself should be enough encouragement....watch this space.
 
Kurt said:
Here we get into the grey area.
If you are on a crew list onboard a ship, you MUST have Basic Safety STCW-95 and ENG1.
Most ships put you on the Suplist. to get a way with this.
The poop will hit the fan the moment something would go sour. eg. you will get injured etc. while on a crew list, and you are not crew, right? First questions would include : Where is your contract with the ship? Your familiarization sheets? etc. etc.
Click to expand...


Kurt you are spot on mate as well as Jocke sad "before long it will be the industry standard to have a full STCW95, ENG1 Medical, Yellow Fever Certificate and SSO qualification" I do look forward for any aspect in security industry to have clear rules and high standards but like we sad SIA in HE was just waist off money for so many....SSO in my option is to.


Generally to tick the box you would then have certificates, ENG1 and seaman's book....I think the same way just hope somebody in the industry would reccon effort, time and money lads are putting in to get all this sorted out.


P
 
Picked up my Seamans and discharge book yesterday, and not one mention of ENG, yellow fever etc... All they were interested in was the form being filled out correctly and photo ID to back it up. Oh, and the double fees of course!!!!
 
Each country has different requirements for needed before applying for their versions of the Seaman's card and Discharge book even within the EU...your local Seamans union or MCA equivalent should give you all the information you need, again I will say it, each countries rules on applying are different.
 
lads im new here and just entering maritime industry im not on the books of any companies yet but i have a question.

do i download the paperwork for the seamans card and discharge book fill it out then do i ask a maritime company to fill in the remainder of the paperwork return it to me then i send it off for completion.

If that is correct do any companies have a issue with you asking them to fill out parts of it and do they ask for a fee
finally how long does it take once i return the paperwork to MCA before i recieve the seamans card and discharge book.

thanks in advance
 
ferguson213 said:
lads im new here and just entering maritime industry im not on the books of any companies yet but i have a question.

do i download the paperwork for the seamans card and discharge book fill it out then do i ask a maritime company to fill in the remainder of the paperwork return it to me then i send it off for completion.

If that is correct do any companies have a issue with you asking them to fill out parts of it and do they ask for a fee
finally how long does it take once i return the paperwork to MCA before i recieve the seamans card and discharge book.

thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Only a company that will hire / employ you will do this for you.
 
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