Police harder than Army! What do you think?

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Obviously ex mil make good police officers as there are an awful lot out there, but as an outsider to both i think there are some huge differences, and that is without the whole politics of the both being involved. I work with the police and to be honest find them pretty good all round and on a personal level they were fantastic when i needed them earlier this year and assisted me AND caught the offender, so have no complaints there at all. Have an uncle who was pretty high up in the Durham force going back a few years now and he was a total git, but then he is still a git and he is retired now haha. Different playing fields really i'd say between military and police, but both equally as important. Have friends who do both and respect them all equally for their service. I couldn't be a copper, not in a million years, haven't the patience to deal with little gets on the streets these days, just as i couldn't be in the army either because it would kill me to leave my family for so long. Have massive respect for all professions like that i really do.... never once seen a british police officer eating a doughnut but did see a patrol car at dunkin doghnuts drive thru in Florida last year.

Surely after military service and doing the whole basic training and all that goes with it, if you want to persue a career in the police it is a natural progression i would have thought despite the differences in jobs, its still down to good drills and discipline at the end of the day
 
Thats the trouble though most are not aware. Every State has different policies as well as cities and towns.
 
Well my son, (who is Ex Army, there's a thing) and lives in the USA cannot find a police force that will take him without him being a citizen. Only Job offer he found was Detention Officer.
 
if you go through the various States/Police websites for different areas from a states highway patrol to local sheriffs depts, there are several that will accept non USA personnel. I looked into it as an option before joining the UK plod after finishing in the green kit. Some strange citieria tho including lie detector tests and such like for some forces lol
 
Was it a Detentions Officer or Correctional Officer. One being private and the other leading to employment of the Sheriff's Department. Many counties require that you serve a year as a Detention Officer before employment with the Sheriff's Department.

It is like the US military you do not have to be an American to join; but later through out the duration of your enlistment you will become a US citizen.
 
JasonBulla said:
Was it a Detentions Officer or Correctional Officer. One being private and the other leading to employment of the Sheriff's Department. Many counties require that you serve a year as a Detention Officer before employment with the Sheriff's Department.

.
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It was Detentions, (with a Sheriff's Department in the State he lives).

Made me laugh, they wanted a Criminal Record check in the counties he had lived in in the UK. They couldn't understand that the record checks are all centrally produced and the whole UK is checked. They would settle for the last two counties after long discussions.
 
bullitt said:
After serving 23 yrs in the Army reaching the rank of WO2 and serving in every theatre of conflict since 1982 and I have carried out numerous tours in each theatre.

So imagine my suprise when yesterday after passing all the tests/assessments for a northern Police Force (Durham) and taking part in my final interview (which is not required anyway by most forces and the home office just a Durham requirement).So I have passed for any other Police force just Durham requires an additional interview.

I was asked a question about how being a Police Officer might affect my life. I said after 23 yrs in the Army I could cope with pretty much anything. I did also however mention that I may not want to tell anyone I didn't know if I was a Police Officer.

At the end of the interview I was sent outside and called back into the room a few mins later I was told that my answer had not been very good essentialy the Police had a hard life, shifts, unpleasant people to deal with etc and because I didn't mention this they thought I may not be able to cope.

I nearly choked with laughter, are they having a laff? So sitting with your ass in the sand, no sleep, crap rations, sweating your nads off, bombed and shot at. Or streets of NI getting everything piss and shit bombs chucked at you I could go on. back to back tours always away from your family... is obviously not quite as hard as spilling your coffee outside the doughnut shop when going after someone doing 35mph down the high street, but then of course they would go on long term sick get the Police Federation (union) involved and get massive compensation more than if you lost a limb in combat.

Are these Plods living in the real world or what? Is it me or do people really not understand what is going on in the world? And the hardships of being in the Army compared to their cushy life.

What seemed to make matters worse is some student with no experience of anything is looked at the same as someone with life experience. A massive amount of military courses means nothing. I talked of my bomb disposal courses, surveillance, search team, firearms instructor, cbrn (nbc) instructor, first aid instructor, MLT, BCU and loads of other things etc etc; it made no difference whatsoever because they didn't have a clue.

When are these muppets going to value people who have served their country.

What do you think?
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Something to bear in mind, there may be 50 people getting interviewed by 5 to 10 interviewers. All they have to go off is a score sheet, when you mention a "Buzz/keyword" you get an extra tick.. The interviewers have to all score the same way as each other, so everyones given a fair chance.

Sounds to me though, if you've been asked back in, that your interviewer knew you had what they want, but maybe didn't say it.

Good luck with your application, when do you find out when you've passed? (always positive!)

Don't forget, the police do deal with alot of grief, infact its all grief, you'll never be sent to a job that isn't grief! You'll become a slave to your radio, you'll talk more to the dispatcher than to your wife (sometimes not a bad thing!)

The people at the top have also started at the bottom, not straight into a commission, missing out the basics.
 
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It may be worth pointing out and clarifying some of the issues.

I left the Army having done 22 yrs (nearly 24 if you include junior leaders)

I then became a civillian Police Instructor and (with a different force) a Special Constable.

Whilst employed as a civillian Police Instructor I met a number of ex Army guys like me but Police Officers and we obviously gelled having a bit of "crack" now and again (the talk version>>>) one was ex SASC and failed his firearms course! He said because they didn't want anyone undermining them or knowing more than them.......

What also used to bug me was I would be teaching a lesson and about 20 mins later some officers would walz up to the lesson; if you were to mention this they would all automaticaly put in a complaint against you for your "attitude". So effectively you had to keep your mouth shut and just let them do what they liked as everyone was so shit scared of having a grievence against them that would earn them the sack. No good going to the boss (Police Sergeant) as he was so shit scared of loosing his pension and causing waves he made no attempt to do anything about anything. I would see new officers turning up in trainers as they forgot their shoes. Some of these guys and girls had university degrees (as have I) but they were fresh from uni and didn't have a clue. Some would refuse to break the speed limit in the Police car as they were "scared". One person couldn't find their way out of a car park and "lost it" took her hands off the wheel put her head in her hands and continued to drive across a busy motorway service station car park not looking eventualy kangarooing the car across in front of the public and stalling a liveried Police car infront of a crowd of people whilst the whole time having her head in her hands. (she passed her Blue light police driving course the standard is so low)

The recruits would complain if you went a couple of mins into their meal break on a lesson (because they were late in the first place)

......I could go on about the poor standard of some trainee officers.........

ok, so now I apply for the Police think well I am probably a little better I would hope than most of the recruits that I have taught....go through Police selection pass everything and because I don't sing the praises of the particular force or say, wow your job is so tough.....I fail ?????

So what is tough about the Police ok, mentaly... telling people their relative has died. ok done that as a families liaison officer in the Army...next...

Arresting drunk and disorderly people on a friday and sat night......falls/ whiterock/ springfield road arresting people on public order in Belfast.....and these people were a lot less compliant and would see you dead. next...

Shift work.....ok how about no shifts just work till you literaly drop cos you can't work anymore. When your eat and sleep card (remember them) says you have not sleapt for 5 days or on Ops you physicaly cant sleep cos of mortars/incoming /stagging on etc etc and when you sleep it's right there in the sand.... next..

I could go on ...in summary to fail me because I didn't "suck up" to them and say wow your so great and so tough what a hard job.

Rapier, I'm a competant person. I'm sore, yes of course I am because to be honest it's bloody travisty.... I'm not happy because I personaly think there is nothing hard in Policing that after 22 yrs in the Army I can't cope with and to say that is a lack of understanding on behalf of the Police regarding the Army.

Secondly I have seen the standard of Police recruits...it's apauling

Third the Governemnt has stated that Armed Forces veterans should be given priority and consideration in their future lives this does not just mean jobs but waiting lists for the NHS etc. So if I passed everything for the Police force and only needed an interview for this particular force something other forces dont do. Surely even if I did mess up on a question the Governemt has said veterans should be looked at as a special case anyway......

In summary. The Police is not by any stratch of the imagination as hard a job as a soldier. To say that it is shows not only disrespect to soldiers but shows a very ill informed attitude on behalf of the Police.
 
bullitt said:
It may be worth pointing out and clarifying some of the issues.

I left the Army having done 22 yrs (nearly 24 if you include junior leaders)

I then became a civillian Police Instructor and (with a different force) a Special Constable.

Whilst employed as a civillian Police Instructor I met a number of ex Army guys like me but Police Officers and we obviously gelled having a bit of "crack" now and again (the talk version>>>) one was ex SASC and failed his firearms course! He said because they didn't want anyone undermining them or knowing more than them.......

What also used to bug me was I would be teaching a lesson and about 20 mins later some officers would walz up to the lesson; if you were to mention this they would all automaticaly put in a complaint against you for your "attitude". So effectively you had to keep your mouth shut and just let them do what they liked as everyone was so shit scared of having a grievence against them that would earn them the sack. No good going to the boss (Police Sergeant) as he was so shit scared of loosing his pension and causing waves he made no attempt to do anything about anything. I would see new officers turning up in trainers as they forgot their shoes. Some of these guys and girls had university degrees (as have I) but they were fresh from uni and didn't have a clue. Some would refuse to break the speed limit in the Police car as they were "scared". One person couldn't find their way out of a car park and "lost it" took her hands off the wheel put her head in her hands and continued to drive across a busy motorway service station car park not looking eventualy kangarooing the car across in front of the public and stalling a liveried Police car infront of a crowd of people whilst the whole time having her head in her hands. (she passed her Blue light police driving course the standard is so low)

The recruits would complain if you went a couple of mins into their meal break on a lesson (because they were late in the first place)

......I could go on about the poor standard of some trainee officers.........

ok, so now I apply for the Police think well I am probably a little better I would hope than most of the recruits that I have taught....go through Police selection pass everything and because I don't sing the praises of the particular force or say, wow your job is so tough.....I fail ?????

So what is tough about the Police ok, mentaly... telling people their relative has died. ok done that as a families liaison officer in the Army...next...

Arresting drunk and disorderly people on a friday and sat night......falls/ whiterock/ springfield road arresting people on public order in Belfast.....and these people were a lot less compliant and would see you dead. next...

Shift work.....ok how about no shifts just work till you literaly drop cos you can't work anymore. When your eat and sleep card (remember them) says you have not sleapt for 5 days or on Ops you physicaly cant sleep cos of mortars/incoming /stagging on etc etc and when you sleep it's right there in the sand.... next..

I could go on ...in summary to fail me because I didn't "suck up" to them and say wow your so great and so tough what a hard job.

Rapier, I'm a competant person. I'm sore, yes of course I am because to be honest it's bloody travisty.... I'm not happy because I personaly think there is nothing hard in Policing that after 22 yrs in the Army I can't cope with and to say that is a lack of understanding on behalf of the Police regarding the Army.

Secondly I have seen the standard of Police recruits...it's apauling

Third the Governemnt has stated that Armed Forces veterans should be given priority and consideration in their future lives this does not just mean jobs but waiting lists for the NHS etc. So if I passed everything for the Police force and only needed an interview for this particular force something other forces dont do. Surely even if I did mess up on a question the Governemt has said veterans should be looked at as a special case anyway......

In summary. The Police is not by any stratch of the imagination as hard a job as a soldier. To say that it is shows not only disrespect to soldiers but shows a very ill informed attitude on behalf of the Police.
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Your opinion is based on bias opinions and bitterness i suspect at not meeting the requirements/standards to join.
I could go on to recall the times i have come across discipline and attitude issues with members of the armed forces or how on a recent contract an ex member of the armed forces with vast experience "lost the plot" and disgraced the team and client or the number of assaults i have dealt with concerning off duty soldiers with no control,sense or level of restraint, spitting and defecating their cells but Im not here to slait the army or tar all armed forces with the same brush. Your knowledge of what the police do is limited despite your claims and if you had ever really spent time policing Northern Ireland your perceptions may be very different.
Wise up and grow up people
 
Bullitt I'm sure you are competent, as are MOST ex military personnel, but the point I was making is that you appear to have a very low opinion of the police in the first place, and if that came across in the interview then that is probably why you failed.

I have the highest regard for our military personnel BUT they are only men and women, both good and bad, some exceptional and some bordering incompetent, just like the police.

You say I have no understanding of the military and that is true in the sense I was never in it. However my son was, and so were a lot of the guys I worked with in the Job for 30 years so have been told how hard it can be (or how easy too).

As for the Firearms comments, that's total Bollocks. I've worked with SF Instructors both Army and RM and have had ex Mil Weapon Instructors on Courses as students. I'm sure with military weapons and tactics they are top notch, but I never met any that could use a pistol as well as we could. I have even been kept behind on ranges to show their Instructors the techniques we were using.

This isn't meant as a pissing contest, but just to correct a few issues, and I hope you are successful in what ever you choose to do, be it join the Job elsewhere or pursue another line of work entirely.
 
Hi Bullitt,just a few comments,with reference to your final interview, most police forces do this,as an ex-RUC/PSNI officer it is still required. I agree with you that some interviewing officers ( they are usually high rank) have lost touch with the officer on the ground and need a`short sharp shock. Some officers do get big payouts, not this one, i've lost count the number of times i was injured on duty and the most I ever got was £3000. While not agreeing with those interviewing officers they were probably worried that after 23years you may not be able to adopt to the civy way of doing things. Since leaving the police I've done a 2 year stint in the sand pit,also I was, before joining the police part time Ulster Defence Reg so have probably seen it from all sides.
 
Guys where do I start. I have rewritten this reply so many time. I'm not wanting to offend anyone.

ok, look, the fact is this is not a pissing contest etc but it is about the fact that those officers really thought I could not handle the "toughness" of the Police.

Come on ......most people here should be pissing themselves...

My first recation was are they having a laugh.....
 
If it was a pissing contest I would only have to mention the fitness test.

Fact 1. in training for it I tried to do it by hopping on one leg....I did it on one leg hopping....

Fact 2. The force I applied for the officer in charge of recruiting said no one had fialed it....it's a joke.
 
bullitt said:
If it was a pissing contest I would only have to mention the fitness test.

Fact 1. in training for it I tried to do it by hopping on one leg....I did it on one leg hopping....

Fact 2. The force I applied for the officer in charge of recruiting said no one had fialed it....it's a joke.
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Maybe you should direct your comments to the force concerned instead of making comments about police across the board which seems a little juvenile and immature.
Standards in Northern Ireland are extremely high and many people fail fitness,tactical firearms,advanced driving,armored vehicle driving .
The Police in Ulster have compounds inside various army barracks,Ballykinler,Magilligan and to suggets all police tarining the same and of the same quality is quite ignorant.
Dont tar us all with the same brush as the few who have let us down as i stated before i have come across a few forces personel who have conducted themselves shamelessly but i dont make judgements on the whole armed forces. Common sense should prevail i hope !!!!!!;)
 
JasonBulla said:
Was it a Detentions Officer or Correctional Officer. One being private and the other leading to employment of the Sheriff's Department. Many counties require that you serve a year as a Detention Officer before employment with the Sheriff's Department.

It is like the US military you do not have to be an American to join; but later through out the duration of your enlistment you will become a US citizen.
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Mate, I don't know what you are an 'Independant Consultant' in but it's obviously not US immigration laws. If you really think you can just up and move to the States then get work as anything (and I mean anything, even working in McDonalds) you are smoking crack. In order to work for any police department you would first have to possess a Green Card (Resident Alien) there are only about 3 states (Alaska being one) that will even consider a Green Card applicant. For all others you have to be a US Citizen, in most cases that is even for Correctional deputies. The Military is totally different.
 
Guys (some people) are just not getting it are they.
Look I'm not rying to say all Police are crap.
What I am saying is the ones that interviewed me did not have a clue and they thought the POLICE was a tougher job than the Army. Now both jobs are different but forgive me for being rude now what idiot would ever consider the Police to be harder than the Army because they just can't back that up in reasonable debate.

Please you couple of coppers/ex coppers please give me some examples of where your average day in the the Police out doing your job is a tougher than the Army average day doing there job. Please.
 
While we are on the subject of the RUC/PSNI fair play know a lot of them am not trying to say anything against them But the following little story might tickle you.

As the troubles were dieing out I was in West Belfast. The RUC used to fly about and on joint patrols kept telling us to keep us whilst they speeded about. The troops were encouraged to drive fast. The RUC were forever asking for support and would NEVER evter some estates without any Army presence. They were forever, asking for help when they were getting outnumbered when the pubs were turning and getting the shit kicked out of them we never turned around and said hold on why are we going to the aid of the RUC IN THIS PUB BRAWL what has that to do with counter terrorism? No we got stuck in. But as time moved on more of our guys doing normal duties were increasingly reported by the Police for offences, speeding etc Its seemed the more the province got safer the more the Army became a target for the Police. In the end the OC suspended all help to non terrorist related incidents to the RUC and no immediate response to any RUC incident. How long did it take to convince Woodburn (RUC station) Grovenor Rd etc to come to their senses. They soon realised they can't kick you in the bollocks one minute and ask for help the next.
 
TOMMY

by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
 
This seems to be a very split topic. The Police and Military are 2 different beasts unfortunately the Police has now gone slightly 'fluffy' and no longer wants bobbies to adopt a no nosense approach as they once did, this is evident with the people they employ, and highlighted more by pretty much any bobbie who has a reasonable amount of time in the job. When the Military recruit they know that they can invest considerable time into a individual and 'mould' them to what they want, the Police on the other hand has limited time to establish this and continuation training is done as and when it can be fitted in. The only way to change this is, change the system from within, and play the game until you are in a position to use your voice. Fact is Ex Military personnel tend to stand out because they are used to hardship and dealing with weird and wonderful situations.

Bullit - Did you get accepted?
 
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