British Transport Police to be Armed

As a firearms cop within the police I totally agree, however the point you seem to be missing that a lot of ex squaddies are actually cops, and it will be obviously a start when being selected for the training.
 
Sorry UKcop I have to disagree with you there if you are suggesting that ex-mil guys have an advantage over non mil guys when it comes to selection for training. Or am I missing something?
 
Steve Collins said:
Sorry UKcop I have to disagree with you there if you are suggesting that ex-mil guys have an advantage over non mil guys when it comes to selection for training. Or am I missing something?
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Its exactly the same recruitment process, infact there are plenty of Police Forces that frown upon ex Mil guys and gals.
 
matt202 said:
Rocket,
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matt202 said:
I'm really sorry to disillusion you mate but unless you want to spend the rest of your life behind bars, the most important thing about being an AFO is knowing how to make a statement. At the end of the day, what ever you do, you will have to justify your actions and that will be done in the form of an evidential statement.

I've said this before on the forum but I will say it again, unlike the military, police use of firearms is not about knowing when to use your weapon, you can teach the average school kid playing medal of honour that, it is knowing about when not to.

Discharging your weapon should be seen as a last resort. The most important weapon in these scenarios is your mouth, which I would hope involve the ability to manipulate a situation so as it could be resolved without the need to resort to firearms.

The evidence is unequivocal, discharge of police firearms is rarely needed during armed deployments. Why, because they have the ability to talk to people.

How that equates to running a line on a range, I don't know.
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Yeah, I've written one or two statements in my time so perhaps I actually do know what I'm talking about plus probably 60 or so appearances in Crown Court.

'Discharging your weapon should be seen as a last resort. The most important weapon in these scenarios is your mouth,'

Really, discharging your weapon is NOT a last resort. It is purely a reaction to the threat immediately posed, as such, it could even be a first resort.

Don't try and teach your Granny to suck eggs, and don't compare anything I have done to playing 'Medal of Honor' (and learn to spell it correctly):)

As to 'running a line on a range' WTf are you on about?

And as far as 'disillusion' goes mate, your way down the line, that happened years ago
 
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matt202 said:
the most important thing about being an AFO is knowing how to make a statement.
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Make a statement?

I'd write a statement, not make one. Might be accused of 'making' it up when you're gripping the rail.

Are you really a copper? Come on now, make up....I mean fess up :eek:
 
RocketDodger said:


Yeah, I've written one or two statements in my time so perhaps I actually do know what I'm talking about plus probably 60 or so appearances in Crown Court.

'Discharging your weapon should be seen as a last resort. The most important weapon in these scenarios is your mouth,'

Really, discharging your weapon is NOT a last resort. It is purely a reaction to the threat immediately posed, as such, it could even be a first resort.

Don't try and teach your Granny to suck eggs, and don't compare anything I have done to playing 'Medal of Honor' (and learn to spell it correctly):)

As to 'running a line on a range' WTf are you on about?

And as far as 'disillusion' goes mate, your way down the line, that happened years ago
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I find it strange then dodge that in your earlier post you make such dismissive comment in relation to statement making. As for what you have done in the past, yeah Ok, but I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who have been around the block a bit as you say you have.

The point I was making in relation to the video game is that learning to shoot is the easy bit about firearms and it was a general comment not directed at you.

Just because an individual has handled firearms and has a sound knowledge of range procedures doesn't mean you can forget about the bread and butter stuff relating to police work and when it is you that is the principle officer, getting the basics right may be the only thing that keeps you out of the dock.

I'm also not trying to suggest that AFO's have some sort of "supernatural" ability. I'm just saying that there is more to this than thinking all you have got to do is pull the trigger first. In 99% of police firearms deployment the opposition just want to give up when confronted with overwhelming odds.

I'm also not trying to get into some huge p**sing contest involving AFO's v Military. The only comments I would make is that in the main the only thing that they have in common is the fact that they both involve guns and that I wouldn't suggest I could do the military role unless I had received ALL of the training first.

Finally, I will take you up on your point about discharging a firearm. Whilst it may be your first action is should always be the last resort.
 
Dublad said:
Make a statement?

I'd write a statement, not make one. Might be accused of 'making' it up when you're gripping the rail.

Are you really a copper? Come on now, make up....I mean fess up :eek:
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When you are the principle officer, trust me mate, you will be making a statement.

As for being a copper, are you?
 
Really, discharging your weapon is NOT a last resort. It is purely a reaction to the threat immediately posed, as such, it could even be a first resort.

I havethe following in my head from years ago can't remember where it came from, ACPO Manual maybe?

"Firearms are to be used as a last resort, where other methods have been tried and failed or because of the circumstances be unlikely to suceed if tried".

Yes, I was a copper, yes, I was an AFO/SFO, yes, I've been around the block.
 
Steve Collins said:
Really, discharging your weapon is NOT a last resort. It is purely a reaction to the threat immediately posed, as such, it could even be a first resort.

I havethe following in my head from years ago can't remember where it came from, ACPO Manual maybe?

"Firearms are to be used as a last resort, where other methods have been tried and failed or because of the circumstances be unlikely to suceed if tried".

Yes, I was a copper, yes, I was an AFO/SFO, yes, I've been around the block.
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Tut, tut Steve where's your sense of adventure?

Kill 'em all, let God sort them out.
 
RD, thanks for the sentiment, I've never been a man for the book as I'm sure some of the former 19 guys on here will tell you, just bored and being pedantic I guess.
Be Safe,
Steve
 
All very well arming the BTP but depending on what they choose to do with them, static patrols at train stations or paroling in ARVs will decide how useful they are.

Most of the time you can't get BTP out even if you have a job on their ground. It's not unusual for BTP to do very long runs to get to a job and end up having to do a handover with the local force in custody.

And I cannot see local forces being too happy at having "foreign" ARVs infringing on their patch (I know they don't plan to do this outside London though as there are so few BTP there) and the latest stats show that the amount of firearms jobs that happen on BTP ground happen outside London, and then it is normally people on trains seeing a farmer in a field with a shotgun and calling the nines. So the other problem will be experience, maybe they could attach officers to CO19 or City firearms but I can't see either party being too happy with that.

Shame the BTP CC doesn't just go the whole hog and arm all of his officers, but that will never happen.
 
UKPSS said:
All very well arming the BTP but depending on what they choose to do with them, static patrols at train stations or paroling in ARVs will decide how useful they are.

Most of the time you can't get BTP out even if you have a job on their ground. It's not unusual for BTP to do very long runs to get to a job and end up having to do a handover with the local force in custody.

And I cannot see local forces being too happy at having "foreign" ARVs infringing on their patch (I know they don't plan to do this outside London though as there are so few BTP there) and the latest stats show that the amount of firearms jobs that happen on BTP ground happen outside London, and then it is normally people on trains seeing a farmer in a field with a shotgun and calling the nines. So the other problem will be experience, maybe they could attach officers to CO19 or City firearms but I can't see either party being too happy with that.

Shame the BTP CC doesn't just go the whole hog and arm all of his officers, but that will never happen.
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For my sins I am BTP and carry a taser, personnally I can see a need for us having a firearms unit in London but not any where else at the minute. yes there is a threat from a mumbi style attack and a train station is a probable target but we dont have the staff to provide an armed responce every where. outside of London it is not un common to be doing 30 - 40 minutew blue light runs.
my own view is stick to taser outside london and rely on the local force to provide firearms cover. derms
 
sectom said:
I can hear the tannoy now
"armed police now arriving on platform 2"
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And if they were arriving at platform 2 wouldn't it be 20 minutes late......? (A dig at trains there by the way, although I could have a dig about individual BTP officers I've personally had dealings whilst serving.)
 
bornsloppy said:
And if they were arriving at platform 2 wouldn't it be 20 minutes late......? (A dig at trains there by the way, although I could have a dig about individual BTP officers I've personally had dealings whilst serving.)
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Please have your tickets available for inspection, OR ELSE !
 
Manxmerc said:
I can just see it now. Some stumpy BTP guy with glasses like Jam Jars who's too dense to join the Met. Getting months away from his proper duties to be given pistol and rifle training from scratch, before finally, after stacks of training hours, ranges etc. Getting down onto the tube with his MP5 and Glock in toe. Looking down his nose at commuters like me because he thinks he's the next Andy McNab.
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Oh, Oh..... Do I qualify?
Ex military, Ex AFO (not MET) transfered to BTP, Stumpy (5F8 1/4) Does not having the 'jam jar' glasses mean I can't apply?
I might miss with my taser if I don't get a set of jam jars soon though. :) :p
 
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