Security guard doing non security duties for static security money.

Oddjob said:
Right you've had a lot of good advice.
You now need to gather evidence for a case.
I suggest you make phone calls, (recorded) send Emails, arrainge meetings, (recorded) to clarify, what work you are contracted to do, what work you are expected to do, and make clear to all what work you are actually doing.
It appears your direct employer doesn't want to rock the boat, by representing you, all at your expense as you are the one doing all the work.
Next step is talk to Rollo at NSWU as I suggested, approach your own Irish security union or those that encompass your field.
Make contact with your local employment tribunal/court.
They'll point you in the right direction.
Once you know your rights, the direction you can take, maybe even gain knowledge of similar cases.
All this will empower you, with knowledge, resolve and direction hopefully.
Your security contract should say what is expected of you by way of duties.
Flexibility is an unwritten code.
But extra duties and extra responsibilities, need to be documented and written in, then duly compensated.
First you must decide what you want.
You are obviously capable of both tasks,
I'm guessing you want as we all do, a fair days pay, for a fair days work.
Keep that as your core principal in this discussion, and you won't go far wrong.
You just want a fair shake.
If they get all defencive and attack your job security or play hard ball and remove you to elsewhere.
You will have grounds for unfair dismissal no matter what way they put it by way of excuse.
Because you have been intelligent enough to document your case.
Click to expand...

I have looked at my contract of employment and it states nothing about the additional duties, my line manager agrees with me and supports my position but he/she is caught between a rock and a hard place (company director and client)

I am fairly clued in on employment law and know that all of these duties are in beach of my contract, not to mention the fact I don't take any proper breaks throughout the daily 9 hour shift even though employment legislation states that a minimum of a 30 min break is due after every 4 hours worked.

There is no security union that I am aware of in Ireland, perhaps the security industry comes under 'the service industry' for the sake of unionisation in Ireland but I'm not sure.

I will take what you have suggested on board and I appreciate the fact you and others have taken the time to give a considered response to my issue, it is greatly appreciated.

IR.
 
Just giving an update on my situation and wondering if anyone had any advice to offer.

My manager approached the company Director about giving me a pay rise due to the increased responsibility and work load of the position but the company Director has refused this and further more has refused to ask the building manager who's job I'm doing for an increase.

As a result I told the Manager that I would from next week be working as per my contract and I would no longer be doing any non security work, to which he said I would most likely be getting a call from the director when he passes the message on.

I know the company director is of the opinion that 'we should all be happy just to have a job' so I can imagine the attitude he will take when he does call.

How would you deal with this company Director in this circumstance and have you ever found yourself in a similar situation?

Any input is much appreciated.
 
right, you've done the hard bit. you've weighed up the pros and cons of carrying on as you were, or risk the sack and faced up to the boss (and the lazy git who's job you're covering). now stand back and see who blinks first...stick to your guns and let them sweat..you're already fed up with the situation so no matter what it will sort something out....not sure of the legals but as long as there's no complaints about your proper work, then anything that comes up now you can argue as constructive dismissal...good luck
 
trojan42 said:
right, you've done the hard bit. you've weighed up the pros and cons of carrying on as you were, or risk the sack and faced up to the boss (and the lazy git who's job you're covering). now stand back and see who blinks first...stick to your guns and let them sweat..you're already fed up with the situation so no matter what it will sort something out....not sure of the legals but as long as there's no complaints about your proper work, then anything that comes up now you can argue as constructive dismissal...good luck
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I got a call from the company director about 2 hours ago and coincidently I done just as you suggested here, the result being the director has said he will approach the client with the issue and basically put the ball in his court.

If he (Property manager) values the work I have done and do for him over and above my contractual obligations, he should have no problem with increasing my wage, if as I suspect he was just extracting the urine for as long as he could, he will refuse the option to increase my pay and I will have to move to a different site as I'm refusing to do any more non security work. The security director has promised to find work for me on another site due to my good record with the company.

I've realised that these situations as awkward and annoying as they are are very valuable in terms of experience gained.
If I had not stood my ground and refused to do any more non security work I would have been fobbed off and ignored, guess the old saying is true, "the crying baby gets the most milk" ....sometimes.

So I'll let it play out and come to a conclusion next week, if no pay rise I will simply move to another site, it might mean a reduction in wages but I'm willing to take that hit to preserve my principles.
 
IrishRookie,

Finding yourself between a rock and a hard place as you do please consider my advice very carefully !

Speak to the FM company and see if they would be willing to renew the contract with you, if they are willing, and this means forming a company then I would suggest doing that.

The problem with this could be as a mentioned earlier, the FM company director is on good terms with your boss, he may learn of you intentions and dismiss you.

You could also find yourself in a "Dutch Auction" where the only winner is the FM company. I suppose only you know what the FM company's stance will be, by the sound of it you are their "Go To Guy" and they may want to keep you and therfore award you the contract; even if you get it on the same terms as the current supplier this would obviously be more than your current wage but you will need to consider the cost of insurance etc.

Both your employer and the FM company will surely see your frustation with the situation and hopefully understand if you take this course of action.

Once again please give full consideration before you act.

Regards

Premier
 
Another update (helps me remember for future reference)

Have been fobbed off again last week after a promise from the company director the previous week that he would approach the Facility manager in regard to negotiating a pay rise for me.

When by Thursday last week I realised there was still no contact made, I correctly suspected the company director had no intention of making any representation on my behalf, so I approached the facility manager myself to discuss the matter, he agreed in principle that I deserve a pay rise but would no commit to anything until he spoke to his own boss, his plan is for his company to offer 50% of the pay rise if my company agree to do the same but he cant guarantee this until he speaks to his boss and until my company director agrees to it, if he does.

I agreed with the FM on Friday that we would leave things until Monday (this morning) before we move things on in regard to negotiating the pay rise.

I received my roster for the coming weeks yesterday and I noticed that one day during the week there is a new guy allocated to spend the day with me for training, I was not told anything about this prior to the roster being sent out and can only assume the company director is planning on replacing me with this new guy.

All of this is very disheartening, I have given nothing but 110% to this company, I have always gone way above and beyond the call of duty and never refuse a request, I have a good record for attendance and time keeping, never late and only 5 days sick leave in 2 years.

I am studying for a degree part time and have neglected my studies over the last 2 years because I was doing work that I was not obliged to do and now that I'm asking for a fair pay rise to reflect the increased responsibility and work load I am greeted with disrespect and games all of which will probably see me out of a job simply because I refuse to be exploited.

Anyway, up for work in 4 hours so better get some sleep.
 
Last edited:
Oddjob said:
Have you spoke to a union, trade body or employment based advisor (CA, or a solicitor.)
Click to expand...

Not yet OJ, there are no security specific unions in Ireland but I presume they come under the service sector,
I was letting things play out because of the promises made to me by the company director and the ops manager both of whom I thought were decent people but it now appears they were just buying time and had no intention of making any representation on my behalf.

I've tried to be as diplomatic as possible and as flexible as possible but I cant see myself letting this week finish without bringing this to a head.

The Facilities Manager told me this morning that he is contacting his boss today to ask for the green light for his company to offer 50% of the pay rise if he gets the ok he will then contact my company's director to ask them to offer the same.
Needless to say the FM is not too happy that the management of my company hadn't got the cojones to approach him to discuss it.

Just to note, my manager told me to ask for the pay rise myself.
 
Last edited:
I don't get the 50% of the pay rise thing.
Unless your company recieves additional funds for the extra duties expected of you.
I can't see how they could match the other 50% without making a loss.
Now if they had 20 workers on site provided by your company they could maybe cover you.
Can't wait to see how it pans out.
It also highlights why there should be a union and why you should be a member of one.
Some one who is there to protect your interests, not their profits.
Speak to Rollo at The NSWU and see if he can direct or advise you to someone who can help.
Email your local Citizens Advice centre, I know you have them there.
It sounds to me sadly like you're heading down an unfair dismissal case.

Next time you wheel the bins out, I suggest you slip, injure your back, go to A&E or your doctor, get signed off.
Then contact a injury claims lawyer, oh what fun you could have, injured doing duties expected of you, but not contracted.
Just try get all your contacts documented in prep.
I hate bullies taking the piss out of an honest working man.
 
Oddjob said:
I don't get the 50% of the pay rise thing.
Unless your company recieves additional funds for the extra duties expected of you.
I can't see how they could match the other 50% without making a loss.
Now if they had 20 workers on site provided by your company they could maybe cover you.
Can't wait to see how it pans out.
It also highlights why there should be a union and why you should be a member of one.
Some one who is there to protect your interests, not their profits.
Speak to Rollo at The NSWU and see if he can direct or advise you to someone who can help.
Email your local Citizens Advice centre, I know you have them there.
It sounds to me sadly like you're heading down an unfair dismissal case.

Next time you wheel the bins out, I suggest you slip, injure your back, go to A&E or your doctor, get signed off.
Then contact a injury claims lawyer, oh what fun you could have, injured doing duties expected of you, but not contracted.
Just try get all your contacts documented in prep.
I hate bullies taking the piss out of an honest working man.
Click to expand...

I think you might be right OJ, I think they are planning on just moving me to another site which means a different shift pattern and probably less hours.
I dont get the 50% pay rise thing myself, I fear it's a futile attempt to resolve the issue.

I agree 100% there should be a security union with the interests of security workers as their core focus, if there was I would definitely be a member.

Regards the bins, I think I'm starting to feel a twinge in my lower back, I'll see how far the Facility Manager gets Today, if there's no movement either way I'll have to start rocking the boat.
 
IrishRookie said:
I dont get the 50% pay rise thing myself, I fear it's a futile attempt to resolve the issue.
Click to expand...

From what you have said the 50% bit seems quite easy. The company you guard for pays your boss a certain ammount for you to be there. Your boss pays you somewhat less than he is given, which is normal. The company says they will stump up 50% of your pay rise and expects your boss to stump up the other 50% from the profit he is already making.

I don't suppose that is going to happen and you obviously are not happy where you are so see what pans out then maybe time to move on.

If you go down the bad back route be prepared for a long wait and seeing strange people outside your house pointing cameras at you. Also the reference you may need for another job might not be to your liking.

Good luck.
 
I may be wrong but I think the FM guy means they are willing to pay an extra 50% on top of what your company charges as long as that 50% is applied to your wage too. ie if they charged £10 an hour for you then they could now charge £15 an hour on the basis that if they were paying you £5 an hour they now pay you £7.50 an hour. Rates used to make it simple not saying thats what your worth.
 
Go sick with the threat of a claim, might be enough.
I see the thinking by others behind the 50% increase, I'd like to see that in writing before I'd be convinced.
But that may be the way it was meant.
You have let yourself, by your genourous and willing nature, be taken advantage of.
The line manager is the main culprit here, with your collusion, not his company.
They must be questioning what they are paying him for ?
but the jobs are getting done, he's shown initiative.
Be sure and show your new guy 'Exactly' what the job entails, and not a jot more.
If your company changes the SOPs to include the janitorial duties you have been doing, they will be providing you evidence of constructive dismissal.(maybe) seek legal advice on that.
Why not look for jobs in that sector of building management, that allied with your security background might prove attractive to many.
 
Oddjob said:
If your company changes the SOPs to include the janitorial duties you have been doing, they will be providing you evidence of constructive dismissal.(maybe) seek legal advice on that.
Click to expand...
As the story points to the OP being an agency worker then no chance of constructive dismissal, unless of course the rules are different in Ireland.
 
rhea said:
As the story points to the OP being an agency worker then no chance of constructive dismissal, unless of course the rules are different in Ireland.
Click to expand...

I am not an agency worker, I work for a security company on a casual contract of employment for the last 2 years.
The job I interviewed for was for security/reception in a commercial office.
Nowhere in the job description or contract was there any mention of,

bringing industrial bins out several times per week,
taking electricity/gas metre readings,
doing chemical dose testing on the water system,
inspecting the building cooling tower,
Changing light bulbs,
Fixing door closers, door handles.
Collecting and distributing post to tenants and residents,
doing a generator test every week,
clearing excrement and vomit from outside the front door when needed,
Clearing snow from outside the front door and residential walk way when needed,
Lifting large carpets up and moving them around for cleaning,
Filing documents from contractors,
Inspecting toilets for cleanliness,
And many other duties that have nothing to do with security or reception.

I have had a further discussion with the Facility manager and he seems to think that the filling and emptying of industrial bins is the job of security as well as inspecting toilets for cleanliness,
He also thinks that it is the job of security to clear and disperse water in case of any floods as well as post distribution.

Is this right or is he an even bigger piss taker than I thought already?
 
Last edited:
Oddjob said:
Go sick with the threat of a claim, might be enough.
I see the thinking by others behind the 50% increase, I'd like to see that in writing before I'd be convinced.
But that may be the way it was meant.
You have let yourself, by your genourous and willing nature, be taken advantage of.
The line manager is the main culprit here, with your collusion, not his company.
They must be questioning what they are paying him for ?
but the jobs are getting done, he's shown initiative.
Be sure and show your new guy 'Exactly' what the job entails, and not a jot more.
If your company changes the SOPs to include the janitorial duties you have been doing, they will be providing you evidence of constructive dismissal.(maybe) seek legal advice on that.
Why not look for jobs in that sector of building management, that allied with your security background might prove attractive to many.
Click to expand...

I think you're right in regards the culprit being the facility manager but my company director and manager have shown that they dont give a toss about their employees and will do anything to avoid rocking the boat if it means defending one of their workers.

The new guy will be told nothing other than the contractual duties, I was told nothing when I got here other than I was to do security/reception duties.
If they're going to shaft me I'm not going to bend over and just accept it.

I thought about looking for work in building management but the property business is in tatters here at the moment so securing employment wouldn't be easy, I'll continue to look for CP work after I do a CP course, I'm also considering forming my own security company as suggested by premier, I have thought about this before but raising the initial capital would be challenging to say the least.
 
IrishRookie said:
I am not an agency worker, I work for a security company on a casual contract of employment for the last 2 years.
Click to expand...

Who pays you and who is your contract with? Is it the company you are guarding or the security company?
 
Last edited:
Things may be different in Ireland but to the company you are guarding you are an agency worker.

Their contract is with the security company not you. They would not care about your arrangement with the security company other than the work they are paying for is getting done. Do you know what the contract between the 2 of them says about this additional work? If you went sick one day the security company would probably be obliged to provide someone else.

If you have a beef about the extra work then it is between you and the security company not the company you are guarding. If that extra work is not in your contract with the security company and you decide not to do it then the company you are guarding can just ask for someone else. If you are then moved to a different site with less hours it will all depend on what your contract says with your security company.

Good luck with whatever happens but just be a little careful how you deal with it. A good reference about how "realiable/flexible/works to intiative" you are could be very useful when you attempt to enter the flooded CP market.
 
rhea said:
Things may be different in Ireland but to the company you are guarding you are an agency worker.

Their contract is with the security company not you. They would not care about your arrangement with the security company other than the work they are paying for is getting done. Do you know what the contract between the 2 of them says about this additional work? If you went sick one day the security company would probably be obliged to provide someone else.

If you have a beef about the extra work then it is between you and the security company not the company you are guarding. If that extra work is not in your contract with the security company and you decide not to do it then the company you are guarding can just ask for someone else. If you are then moved to a different site with less hours it will all depend on what your contract says with your security company.

Good luck with whatever happens but just be a little careful how you deal with it. A good reference about how "realiable/flexible/works to intiative" you are could be very useful when you attempt to enter the flooded CP market.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the contract between the employer and the client says, but I do know my contract does not say anything about the non security/reception duties.
Yes, the security company would have to provide cover if I was absent, but that doesn't make me an agency worker.
I am employed by the security company directly, not by an agency.

But I do understand the point you are making and it is a fair one, thanks for the advice.
 
Back
Top