Door Supervisor Pay

[Belfort]

If the SIA obligate us to pay £245 for a licence, they should establish a law that no doorstaff would be allowed to receive less than £10p/h. It's ridiculous the fact that some companies pay that when you are experienced, fair enough if you just started doing it.

I am a CPO, but I do doors time to times as I can rely on CP jobs all the time, but due my experience and knowledge I will make them understand that if you want high caliber you have to pay for it... you get what you pay for. Pay cheap and you get a cheap and crap service.

 

[seanyseanyseany]

have worked in most busy areas in north east, newcastle,whitley bay etc. mostly pay starts at £10 p/hr, moving to £12-£15 for working in nightclubs.have heard rumours though of people working for £10 p/hr, paying tax/ni and taking home £6.50!!!, for this i would rather stop in the house with the wife!!!.

 

[skinhead]

Pay & Unions in Security?

I did pay some of my doormen £15.00 per hour, i think it's a bit cheaky to pay someone on London not less than £10 p.h. as the majority of the work is night shift work and high risk (in London it is). Also one of my female doorstaff was paid £25p.h. on the grounds that when she was on the door, crime and controntations dropped by about 95%! Says something about the coooling effect woman have on customers good and bad. Plus no person hit her no matter how badly pissed they where...

Also I have never understood that in most industries they have their own unions to sort things like wages and conditons, but in the Security industry the whole thing regarding unions are fragmentment to say the least. Perhaps there is a missed opportunity here to get slightly better organsized so you all get better pay and conditions? Suggestions on a postcard!

Alan

 

[kirk]

Hey guys, im a University Student, nearly 19 (big lad rugby lad)
Iv got a job working at my student union as a door supervisor, they have paid for the training but i have to pay the £245 for the SIA license. They are paying £7.50 an hour does this seem a fair wage, im not contracted in with them even though they paid the tuition fees but they just ask for some loyalty. Look forward to any views/ opinions?

alrite mate, ive only been working in the industry for a short while myself, ive had a few problems cos im "a little on the small side for a bouncer" been doing it for like 9 months, personally i wouldnt work for less than £10 p/hour but at the end of the day its your choice, stay safe mate

 

[80085]

Sometimes you are obligated to work a one man door, if you say no then the following few weeks you may not have any work.

Its not acceptable but it happens, I have had to work on my own on a door, I have had to deal with trouble from drunken,mouthy men and women. Having to radio it through, for backup. Only after the incident happened they decided that they had better place two staff at the venue. Moslty it is down to the venue, who do not wish to pay for the staff. They use the bear minimum to keep costs down.

Also the venue becomes complacant, where they bring extra staff in because of trouble, then when it goes quiet again they take the extra staff off, so if a big shindig breaks out there are not enough door supervisors to deal with it.

 

[Donny]

I was in Blackpool last weekend and went into a bar, which was down some steps, sorry can't recall the name.

As soon as I went in, heard the music and recognised the drug up pissheads on the dance floor I though this is a sh*t hole!

It was one of those occassions where you can't wait to finish your drink and move on.

About 100 people in the bar and 1 x female door staff stood at the entrance, no one other than bar staff in the bar itself.

Pretty poor show as I always thought a show of force at the front door normally deters alot of bother happening later on inside.

Door staff working alone shouldn't be accepted.

That sounds familiar ,you should of paid me a visit.

 

[caz]

being a female working in manchester for the past 3 years for a very big company i was getting paid £10 an hour guys i was working with were on more then me i got told it goes off your size !what rubbish it should go off how good you are at your job

 

[Oddjob]

Pay...You need a Union

Just to put things in perspective. 31 years ago. I worked a pub door down in Chatham, when it was like the wild west. Naval docks, dockers, sailors, Local nut nuts, Gypos out of Gillingham, RAF regiment and fly boys out of RAF Kent.Newly passed out coppers from Maidstone Police college, Visiting Troops shipping out of Invicta Barracks. To deal with all that I was paid £50 for 5-6 hours work. this was 31 years ago close on £10 per hour. In the mean time general public wages have gone up x 7 on average. House prices by x 20. Prices by x 10. For christ sake. What value is a doorman ?. Sure back then we fought on a daily basis, sure it was rough. But never or rarely deadly. No knives, no guns, very little use of bottles or glasses. Most of you if lucky are still getting £10 per hour 30 years later. Wake up get some representation. you are a professinal body now. Get a UNION. They will represent you, organize you and care for you, They will protect you. a union is the way forward. You might say we have the SIA ! They take your money, piss you about. Don't abide by their own rules. And pass Door Men who can't speak english, and wouldn't be let in to a pub of old, let alone be employed to look after it. What do they do for you ? Get a bloody Union on board. With the clubs, pubs and venues having to abide by SIA rules. A UNION will force your issues through and get those pitiful wages up. SIA won't do it. A UNION will. Look at my figures you should be on £30 per hour minimum. And the CP world is no better than your own. some RSTs are paid £9-10 ph. And thats with a CP license having cost overall £3-4000. Talk up the UNION or at least think about it.

 

[Oddjob]

Not enough is the answer. The SIA represents us . We pay for it. (we pay for what) They set the rules. Why do we not have pay grades. Minimum Rates of pay for HD, Door Supervisors and fresh bloods. If they would set a minimum pay, well then the best and not the cheapest would be employed. We would all bring our game up, in order to be seen as the best. Cheap is a pathetic work option. We have all worked on jobs, especially bigger jobs . Where 1/2 the team is made up of Jacket fillers. We end up doing their job. The client thinks we're all incompetent. and they get paid the same. 30 years later they still want to pay us the same. That £10 currently paid is really worth £3 in comparison to my old pay from 30 years ago. Make the SIA represent US as a UNION would. We are all members anyway lets get SOMETHING for our money, other than incompetence, confusion, and a pathetic approach to their members interests. Make them do something for us for a change. Survival of the fittest, not triumph of the cheapest. The Bars and Clubs are the winners here, earning off our backs.
Just think the cost of 4 doormen can be covered by the sale of 4-5 bottles of Champagne. Check the bins and work out what you could be paid. The SIA needs to be told to get its act together or we need to find a real representative. If thats a Union so be it. 30 years back Policemen were getting £8-12,000 a year. They have a union. Now they start at £25,000. And you're still on £10. the same £10 I was on 30 years back. Monday phone the SIA, see what they'll do for you. In theory we should have the high ground as they can only employ registered DS. In theory a limited number. With a union we might get some insurance to cover us when injured. some legal aid when accused of doing our jobs and some proper recognition.

 

[roland]

i cant believe what I'm reading here £8-£10ph for pouting your ass on the line. someone is taking advantage and you guys are in the big cities London,Manchester,Glasgow if that is your only income after tax just under £100 I'm going on 6hrs a night 3 nights a week Thurs. Fri. sat. what a piss take.
if you have a day job as well and boost your weekly by £100 you may not think its to bad, i do still a piss take.
I'm assuming that because you live in the cities that there are hundreds of DS going for the same job and your lucky if you get the work. that's unfortunate and is going to keep the hourly rate down.
down here in the sticks if they offered us that kind of money there would be no DS on the doors the pubs in my area pay £15-£16ph the clubs pay £17-£18ph
that's £270-£320 and I'm thinking that isn't enough
winter time we don't get much grief locals arguing over the turnip crop
summer is a tad different holiday makers don't give a fck and regularly go ape with the whole dance floor of 40-50 pissed up scousers and brummies going for it
couple of years ago the paper reported up to 300 holiday makers rioting in the street out side. all that shit for £18ph
you guys must be dealing with the gang culture and organised crime as well as the piss heads all for your £8-£10ph fck that for a game of soldiers.
we have security guards on £6-£7ph rst on £8-£10 same as some ds and some cpo work in the uk paying less than £20ph for guys and gals to risk life and limb
something needs to be done to sort out minimum wage and that has to be up around the £20 mark for ds £10 for sec.guards rst £15 and so on
what can we do join a union or petition the sia to sort their act out (yes i no they couldn't organise a shag in a brothel) but there are enough people on this forum and shite loads joining daily to start the ball rolling its our industry for god sake we should be in control of it
there's the recession on but that hasn't stopped the pubs and clubs being full in this area at least on a fri. sat night and it certainly wont stop the holiday makers from running riot this year and it hasn't stopped 2 new clubs opening up either
if its worth protecting its got to be worth paying a decent price to have it protected

just my thoughts. there are some very intelligent people in this forum and id like to hear how you think
then perhaps stop talking about it and do something

 

[Oddjob]

Roland you leave out one important factor from the equation. that is the useless pathetic quality of 60% of DS being churned out by the SIA. I am constantly coming across. Non english speaking, scared, feckless and down right stupid inefficient doormen. The agencies that employ these cretins are to blame also. Some control needs to be put in place. I have worked in rural communities and the quality of staff and hence police support is high above that of the cities. I would state that London is the worst for the problems stated. There are some brilliant London doormen out there carrying the dole dossers, the wannabees, the illegals and it is they who pay the ultimate price on occasion. For what a DS is expected to do £15 must be the minimum, take tax and NI away, its still pathetic. So WHO will represent us ?
THE SIA. have they done any thing for the workers, nothing but cost us money and delays. Some one is going to crap on about market forces blah , blah. But We need real representation, legal cover, injury insurance. we need a yearly review like all other industries. The clubs, Pubs etc expect to pay more each year for utilities, licenses, stock. But they can count on the good old DS to be happy with £10. Who takes the blame when it goes wrong ; you do. Will the SIA represent Us. They haven't so far. So maybe they don't know or care about whats happening. So we better make them care or find someone who will care. If not the SIA then maybe a UNION. Thanks for replying though glad to see someone won't accept the crap. Keep safe. ODDJOB

 

[Oddjob]

80085 I hear what you're saying about 1 man doors.. Again the SIA should be at work here. There should be NO 1 man doors. They are unworkable, it's nonsense to expect anything but trouble. The SIA and the LOCAL AUTHORITIES should be made to realise that they are putting their members at risk. Who will insure you for injury ? THE SIA, the Club or Pub. Do they expect us to insure ourselves, you try it and see whats left out of £10 ph. Why are there no set rates and conditions for DS and CP. Hours, pay, breaks, conditions. We have had the same pay and crap for 30 years and its getting worse not better. Who do the SIA represent ? Me ? You ?Contact them by Email or phone and see what they think. I hope they suprise us, but somehow I feel we will come away disappointed

 

[roland]

yes i do see your point oddjob was only last weekend i spotted a lad i know on the door of a local pub he stands about 5ft 8ins and weighs in about 11stn
not that size matters you don't have to be 6ft 6 and 18st do be a good doorman
i asked him how he had managed to get job his answer was the head doorman is shagging his sister
goes back to the old thing its not what you no but who
the lad had just done the basic ds course no physical intervention or self defence behind him
"what are you going to do when it kicks off" i asked asked him
his reply was and i quote; "send the others in first"

enough said
maybe a union would help, and if i thought it would sort out the mess the industry is in id gladly pay my subs I'm sure most of us would

 

[Oddjob]

THe OTHERS in first, would be the likes of YOU and I . Who is to set the standard, should we have a rating/grading as part of our license. How would this be done.
We can always refuse to work with the cretins. But you'll find we get the boot before they do. 'Don't rock that boat, as the ones that are standing up, fall out first.'
Can we have suggestions on how we can make the SIA work for us, represent us and improve the industry for Us. Pay, Conditions, Insurance and standards. Things I think they're meant to do anyway. For £300+ you'd expect a washing machine to do its job. And complain like a bitch if it didn't, getting your money back if not fixed. So equally we should expect the SIA to work. With training you could call it a £700 machine that doesn't do its job. Can we have some suggestions on what to do next ?

 

[badman1st]

Oddjob you are the man!

 

[Oddjob]

Oddjob you are the man!

I'm afraid I'm so obviously not the man.
My trouble radar was sadly lacking in ability when the SIA was announced.
All the Old School Established Doormen can take part of the blame for the condition we find ourselves in now.
We roled over when the badge system came in on a local basis, we saw it as a good thing.
At first it was free or at nominal cost £30-50. but you needed a seperate badge for each district/council. Still we didn't moan.
Then Westminster saw a nice little earner and started with the £100-300 lark. Still we didn't moan
Then all the other councils thought why not us, and up went their prices.
Did we moan, did we f*&k, at least not in a way that mattered or made a difference.
Then came the saviour, ha, The SIA.
Had we learned ? No. we just let it roll on, no control from the ground, no effective attempt to take control of our destiny.
We lost so much experience on the door with the advent of the SIA, higher prices, mad fees and interminable waitsing'
We are still moaning, but not acting.
What will they foist on us next.
This forum can go a long way to making some decisions, that might make the difference.
I am getting more and more reluctant to work the doors now.
Due to the sub standard ability of 20-30% of current DS.
New is not bad, fresh blood, fresh enthusiasm, varied approach. I'm all for it.
But if the trainers and employers are going to give work to useless dangerous ineffective DS, then we'd best police it ourselves.
I have on so many occasions had to run round, picking up the pieces and filling in the gaps, left by cretins who are either incapable or too scared to do the job.
Can we Use the SIA complaints procedure, without causing hurt to ourselves ? any one tried and what was the result.
None of us like to think of ourselves as grasses, tale tellers or finger pointers, But we do need to protect our reputation and the reputation/quality of our industry.
Suggestions please.

 

[Veefour]

This is my third year working in Spain. The pay is less now than when I came here......the influx of Poles, Kosovans, Morroccans, all with no training or experience but willing to work for €8 or €9 an hour has killed the door work for the ex-pat Brits, Germans and other European's.
I'm packing up and moving back to England......I can get better pay as a static guard on a site with no grief !!!!!

 

[Oddjob]

This is my third year working in Spain. The pay is less now than when I came here......the influx of Poles, Kosovans, Morroccans, all with no training or experience but willing to work for €8 or €9 an hour has killed the door work for the ex-pat Brits, Germans and other European's.
I'm packing up and moving back to England......I can get better pay as a static guard on a site with no grief !!!!!

Contact the SIA in Spain,
they are known as the Spanish Inquisition Authority.
That my catch the interlopers out.
As nobody expects The Inquisition.

Economics, not quality, accountabilty or capability has been the factor of truth for a long time.
Sorry to say legislation seems to make little difference. and only seems applicable to the lawful, the unlicensed disappear into the shadows, share badges and sadly destroy our accountable reputations.

 

[Veefour]

Very true, Oddjob......money is tight out here and bars and clubs are looking to make cutbacks. Three years ago I could make enough money through the season to give me the winter months off and my family and myself lived a nice lifestyle.
Now I work all year, no holidays, live month to month and hope there's enough cash to pay the mortgage. I've had enough of it now as the pay and conditions get worse by the week and the cheap labour is a liability to work with.

I can only hope that the U.K. offers something better !!!

 

[Oddjob]

very true, oddjob......money is tight out here and bars and clubs are looking to make cutbacks. Three years ago i could make enough money through the season to give me the winter months off and my family and myself lived a nice lifestyle.
Now i work all year, no holidays, live month to month and hope there's enough cash to pay the mortgage. I've had enough of it now as the pay and conditions get worse by the week and the cheap labour is a liability to work with.

I can only hope that the u.k. Offers something better !!!

how long can you hold your breadth, veefour ?