Krav courses

I've tried a couple of IKMF clubs and have not been impressed with KM.

On my introduction to KM the trainer actually said: "I can't make you Jason Bourne overnight, but give me 6 months" :rolleyes:

If people want effective hands-on training then look at boxing, muay thai, judo or brazilian jiu jitsu. These styles are pressure tested and proven to work.

KM and Systema are two excellent styles of marketing, but complete bullshido for self-defence.


Try a different KM club. I have practised all the arts you mention and in terms of realism for SD, KM is head and shoulders above the rest. I know a couple in the South East if you still have the minerals!!;)
 
1. A huge amount depends on your instructor. Good or bad.
2. Judo, Muay Thai, BJJ and Boxing are all great, tried and tested combat arts, but they are still sports. If you can make them work in full-on combatives situations that may involve weapons (carried by you and/or your opponent/s) and multiple opponents, go for it. I practice judo and i'm an ABAE Assistant Coach, so i fond thoughts for both of them.
3. There are only so may ways to fill someone in effectively. It has been happening for thousands of years, so KM and most other real world combative systems take the good stuff and incorporate it with effective training drills and scenario's. This for me is the key.
4. The commercialism of such systems is the kicker. My interest was always from a perspective of learning and being able to teach effective combatives that work under combat stress, to groups of people in a relatively short period of time.Very often people with little or no interest in martial arts per se i.e. police, military, security staff, cp operators etc. The lure of loads of money has meant that there are a lot of people now teaching KM who have no interest in practical matters and just want to make a quick buck!
5. There are so many greedy charlatans out there and all they want is to sign you up on monthly contracts. We should strive to be ope minded enough to recognise that a whole system is not necessarily just because you trained with one or two dubious instructors.

Regards
 
I've tried a couple of IKMF clubs and have not been impressed with KM.

On my introduction to KM the trainer actually said: "I can't make you Jason Bourne overnight, but give me 6 months" :rolleyes:

If people want effective hands-on training then look at boxing, muay thai, judo or brazilian jiu jitsu. These styles are pressure tested and proven to work.

KM and Systema are two excellent styles of marketing, but complete
bullshido for self-defence.



Boxing, muay thai, judo, BJJ are all sports. Most unarmed combat methods take techniques from boxing, karate, judo, jiu jitsu etc. But each of these arts on there own are useless when faced with an attacker who has real intent on caulseing you serious harm. However put together and mixed up in the right way with other factors involving mind set etc etc. Then you have a reality system.

I have witnessed mr kung fu, out celebrating getting his 4th deg black belt. Only to get slapped all around the pub when a fight started. And a boxer get put down outside of a casino. A couple of years back, a boxer called henry castle (a pro boxer) got beat up after throwing his weight about in a pub full of gypsies. One of them got fed up and put him in his place. It also happened to someone who religiously practices and competes in MMA. Boxing, BJJ, muay thai are pressure tested for the ring, not the street or military or CP environment.

Thats not to say that they can not look after themselvs. Its just not the way forward for guys that use this networking forum. It is still good to get involved in boxing etc, for a bit of conditioning and fitness
 
must say i practiced martial arts for most of my young life (i'm now old), there are some very informed views on here by people who obviously know what their talking about. I think your'e all right ,martial arts has become extremely commercialised. I started training for 2.50 a week and ended up on 40 a month. As long as there are people like geoff thompson still about I think the next generation will have a chance of defending themselves.
 
Just wanted to add that if anything did get organised off the back off the convo then I would be very interested, my local KM class in run in my garrison town and although the majority are there to train there are a few that are there for ego boosting/scrapping.... this for me ruins my concentration and motivation to go!

I am based around the salisbury area but would travel for the benefit of like minded people and good honest valued instructors.

Dan,
 
Boxing, muay thai, judo, BJJ are all sports. Most unarmed combat methods take techniques from boxing, karate, judo, jiu jitsu etc. But each of these arts on there own are useless when faced with an attacker who has real intent on caulseing you serious harm. However put together and mixed up in the right way with other factors involving mind set etc etc. Then you have a reality system.

I have witnessed mr kung fu, out celebrating getting his 4th deg black belt. Only to get slapped all around the pub when a fight started. And a boxer get put down outside of a casino. A couple of years back, a boxer called henry castle (a pro boxer) got beat up after throwing his weight about in a pub full of gypsies. One of them got fed up and put him in his place. It also happened to someone who religiously practices and competes in MMA. Boxing, BJJ, muay thai are pressure tested for the ring, not the street or military or CP environment.

Thats not to say that they can not look after themselvs. Its just not the way forward for guys that use this networking forum. It is still good to get involved in boxing etc, for a bit of conditioning and fitness

I am fully aware that any amount of training in any style may not prevent you from getting a kicking and much of the essence of self-defence boils down to awareness first and foremost.

What irritates me however are these so-called 'reality based' systems, like Krav Maga, that are nothing more than money-making machines giving people a dangerous and misguided belief in their own ability. All the 'six months and you'll be Jason Bourne', 'as used by Special Forces', 'trained by SWAT' b*llocks is usually a good indicator of a bullshido merchant. If you look at the mainstream IKMF clubs around London they are charging on average around 12- 15 pounds per class. Daylight robbery without the handgun. And now suddenly the main group IKMF have split into KMG and IKMF meaning all IKMF students now have to fork out for new uniforms etc. Kerching! All this on top of the fact that what is sold as KM in the UK bears no resemblance to what the IDF train in and have to deal with on a daily basis.

I would place more faith in someone who has trained in boxing for 12 months over someone who has trained in Krav Maga. The main difference being the boxer will have actually hit and been hit, full contact during sparring. The majority of the IT professionals training in KM will never get hit.

To quote Mike Tyson: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".
 
Last edited:
I am fully aware that any amount of training in any style may not prevent you from getting a kicking and much of the essence of self-defence boils down to awareness first and foremost.

What irritates me however are these so-called 'reality based' systems, like Krav Maga, that are nothing more than money-making machines giving people a dangerous and misguided belief in their own ability. All the 'six months and you'll be Jason Bourne', 'as used by Special Forces', 'trained by SWAT' b*llocks is usually a good indicator of a bullshido merchant. If you look at the mainstream IKMF clubs around London they are charging on average around 12- 15 pounds per class. Daylight robbery without the handgun. And now suddenly the main group IKMF have split into KMG and IKMF meaning all IKMF students now have to fork out for new uniforms etc. Kerching! All this on top of the fact that what is sold as KM in the UK bears no resemblance to what the IDF train in and have to deal with on a daily basis.

I would place more faith in someone who has trained in boxing for 12 months over someone who has trained in Krav Maga. The main difference being the boxer will have actually hit and been hit, full contact during sparring. The majority of the IT professionals training in KM will never get hit.

To quote Mike Tyson: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".
i have to agree with everything of the above-good post and so true
 
What irritates me however are these so-called 'reality based' systems, like Krav Maga, that are nothing more than money-making machines giving people a dangerous and misguided belief in their own ability. All the 'six months and you'll be Jason Bourne', 'as used by Special Forces', 'trained by SWAT' b*llocks is usually a good indicator of a bullshido merchant.

We've a reality system. In creating it, we've took out all martial arts. Critically looking at all the worlds reality based systems, i felt for the street there had to be more movment toward the real environment. So we're quite hands on, very agressive, and use little or no protection. Simple, i dont fight on a mat in the street. I wont be attack by a plastic knife, or a plastic bat. I wont be attacked by a stick the width of a brush shaft either. The marketing hype you speak of, i agree. However, the reality is that the system should be concept based, and both those and the techniques should be easy to learn. In fact, it should take 5 mins to learn something. And of course, longer to do it to the high stress level. I'm guessing you are martial arts trained, and dont experience something like i've just said. A martial artist, and indeed, some of the 'reality' system that are hybrid martial arts, take quite a while to leanr, and train under safe conditions. Granted, the training will be challenging physically, and mentally. Though some systems since they are using martial arts, absorb the dojo mentality. One example, i recently saw on facebook a clip of a well known trainer in a global system. This guy trains counter-terrorism in his country. I saw him taking a gun of another, it dropped to the floor, and he picked it up and handed it back! absolutely useless that is. teaching, which of course is personal training, year in year out, and doing that is bad. One must carry out to the letter in training that which they will execute in combat. Such 'lovely manners' as handing a weapon back have got no place in serious combat training. It's a issue that is so endemic no-one realises it seems.

anyhow, the whole purpose of a reality system, sorry... the whole purpose of a combatives system is to teach someone a finite set of skills in the shortest time possible, to execute concepts first, techniques second, under high stress. How long does it take top learn an idea. The process is actually the reverse of martial arts in ways.



I would place more faith in someone who has trained in boxing for 12 months over someone who has trained in Krav Maga. The main difference being the boxer will have actually hit and been hit, full contact during sparring. The majority of the IT professionals training in KM will never get hit.

It's a good point. Training in safety is that, training safe. Real violence is that, violent. Hehe. There's surely a reason why the army train live firing exercises, and dont settle for paint balling.



warmest wishes
Wayne
 
Last edited:
Actually, its funny to note that some people cannot get on with the open structure of fighting systems - many have literally come to depend on a specific attack being handed to them in order to react. I've seen it a few times, people cannot apply the principles under pressure without more practise than those who have no former martial arts training.

Altered mindset?

Pitching a equivalently trained Krav Maga practitioner against any martial art / sport is like pitching a footballer against a rugby player. I hate football...
 
Quite true. Therein lies the problem. Unrealistic training = unrealistic views of combat =getting oneself hurt. Structured Training? Perhaps there's an arguement for it in some way, showing the student how well they are progressing, and of course revenue for the club, though really, why the heck would i want to learn something even remotely choreographed. The more chaotic the training the better, the more mistakes i make in training the better, and the more i can adapt to all this in training, the better training it is.

Scab said:
Pitching a equivalently trained Krav Maga practitioner against any martial art / sport is like pitching a footballer against a rugby player. I hate football...

Actually, i agree, :).

Warmest Wishes
Wayne
 
I strongly agree with many of the posts on here particularly those who believe that training should be real and sparring included. That is the downfall of most Krav Maga schools as they are more concerned about the economical aspect of training - i.e most ordinary people will not come back to a class if they get hit hard on a regular basis.
True they are not learning the essence of what it is to be in a fight, but they dont want to! They would rather believe that they are learning something effective and stay in the denial coccoon. The krav thought in the U.K is diluted and no emphasis is put on training the mind, its all about learning defensive techniques against unrealistic holds, chokes or knife attacks that have no realation to the real dynamics of a voilent encounter.

Quite a lot of research has been done on this, Scott Sonnen, Dave Grossman, Loren Christiansen Gavin De Bekker, and all conclude that a person must have experienced at least 200 live encounters to begin to understand how voilence works.
choose instructors wisely, I teach Krav but I teach authentic Krav and we batter each other - unfortunately I do not run regular classes in the U.K anymore but any of my previous students will testify to this. If you dont like being bruised and sore dont train with us.
We run intensive courses and seminars all over europe and have an ethos of "if you are not broken by the end of the week you didn't give100%""
 
Mate read the whole post and take it in its full context, don't take a single sentence or statement from it and make a judgement on that! "Battering" each other not battering someone, this toughens the body and the mind to the reality of combat, we don't set out to kick each others heads in but rather to keep it real, this is real krav maga not the diluted in a can version for little girls and boys 99.9% of the U.K public are used to!
 
i cant see why it works though?!? im not slating it, i might or might not work but the martial arts i have done in sparring we dont 'batter' each other because there is not a need to do that. but all the best mate, no disrespect intended
 
If you can't see what makes one thing work, what do you see in others that seem to make them work? I've never heard anyone say they can't see how krav can work...!!!
 
i cant see why it works though?!? im not slating it, i might or might not work but the martial arts i have done in sparring we dont 'batter' each other because there is not a need to do that. but all the best mate, no disrespect intended

thats martial arts mate, a duel, a dance -you do this, I do that, very little relevance to a real street fight. Krav maga is not a martial art nor will it ever be, there is nothing "artistic" about it. There is a need to know what it is like to get hit hard and still have to fight back, cause thats what happens in reality, no referee or master to step in and let you recover.
 
obviously it's very effective for defence, I'm talking about how full hard contact sparring works. I fully appreciate how krav can work in a street fight, I'm on about full contact sparring. But if it works for you fair enough. I have never seen in any gym blokes " battering " each other, and still be top of there game, I have never been in a krav maga seminar so it might be different, and I'm all for getting educated

Rhys
 
i have to agree with IST, to see a martial art/technique work it needs to be pressure tested,under hard sparring or"battering" to make it realistic
 
Back
Top