Licence Revoked

G

Gillybear

Full Registered User
Hi, I hope someone can advise me as I don't know wherelse to ask.

I'm ex forces of 14 years and have since done 3.5 years of CP. My wife is now disabled after the birth of our 3rd child went horribly wrong so I quit working abroad and got a basic security job at a shopping centre so I could be close by.

2 months ago I received a section 39 caution for common assault. I was driving to work and a group of youths started throwing stones at my car whilst I was stopped at a roundabout. I carried on driving to the opposite side of the roundabout to the petrol station where I filled up and realised they had caused quite significant damage to my car. I turned round, found the group and approached the 'ringleader' to get his address so I could get his parents to compensate me for the damage - damage I can't afford to repair myself. The group quickly surrounded me and the ringleader spat at me and was really getting in my face. Now, these were only teens, I'm talking 14/15 years old so obviously I didn't want to go to extreme lengths to defend myself. I did however, grab him by the collar and push him backwards (as he was about to swing a punch at me), to put distance between us. I deemed this to be reasonable force - he didn't fall to the ground and he was injured in no way. It was left at that and I continued to work. Anyway, the lads mother reported me and the police said even though he was unharmed, it was still assault to push him and 'how can a 14y/o seem a threat to a grown man?'. My answer of course was, "when you've had mates blown up by 10year olds, you come ask me that question". The police officer and the solicitor said I'd get a harsher punishment at court and advised I take the caution, which I did.

I sent a letter mid June to the SIA explaining the situation, along with a letter from my solicitor corroborating my story and I heard nothing more. Today I received a letter saying my licence has been revoked as I hadn't responded to their letter of July 8th, which I genuinely didn't receive, and I've to go through the courts now. I have emailed explaining how the caution occurred, that I wrote them a letter and that I didn't receive theirs and requesting my opportunity to satisfy them via other means before resorting to court hearings.

Do you think they may let me do this? More importantly, do you think I have a chance of keeping my licence? As I said, I'm a father of 3 very young children, I have a disabled wife and a clean record other than this.

Thanks guys
 
If you got the letter or not you won't get the opportunity - it will have to be a court hearing now. Previous cases would suggest that you would not be successful in court as you have admitted guilt of a physical criminal offence - the fact that it was against a minor may go even worse for you. As a quick guess I would say its's a three year wait for you - best get to the job centre. Working in the mean time would possibly make your situation much worse. All the best.
 
I don't think anyone can really say whether the SIA would let you sort it out without going to court. I've never heard of them doing it before but it might be in their interests to avoid the costs.
There are plenty of people working with minor convictions so you do have a chance of getting your badge back, you will need plenty of good references. Also note that you don't need a licence to work directly providing security and some of the supermarkets do employ their own security staff.

It sounds like you were totally justified in what you did. I'm surprised that your solicitor advised you to admit guilt when it doesn't sound like you were guilty. Did your solicitor not warn you that you would lose your SIA licence and it could affect your job prospects for many years to come?
 
Honestly, I think it's unlikely your licence will be re-issued any time soon. You have admitted assaulting a child.

If you choose to fight the revocation, I wish you the best. I would strongly advise you not to become all consumed by this though. There are other jobs out there. Where do you live?
 
I think that you should have argued the caution, maybe going to court stating that you were defending yourself, along with the damage to your car, you might find the police would have got the parents to pay for the damage. And maybe called the police first "before getting in there"
 
Be interested in knowing if you can do the Solicitor for negligent advice leading to loss of income - they should have known you'd lose your licence and hence can't work but still told you to take the caution - admittedly you should have done some research yourself, but that's the service your brief is paid to provide - advising their client to take the route that has the most reasonable outcome.
Obviously if they told you and you ignored it then ignore me too.
 
Send me a private message with your number as I know about a similar incident and will explain over the phone as it's easier but cutting a long story short he got his license.
 
Why are you going through the courts, is this for the SIA?
You were obviously misadvised, as others have stated, and the police are not allowed to advise you to take a caution, (it's less paperwork, and a detected crime report for them, so definitely the easy option as far as they're concerned!), Anyway, that won't help you. You need some good, solid character references, in writing, maybe your ex OC, Sgt Major, any one who is of good social standing, stating how long they have known you, how it was out of character, your previous exemplary conduct and service etc, ask them to lay it on thick.
I do know of a guy who initially had his licence refused because of a caution for Common Assault, and after appealing with refs etc, it was granted, so don't give up hope....... I wish you well with it, the CJS stinks in this country!
 
scrumhalf said:
Send me a private message with your number as I know about a similar incident and will explain over the phone as it's easier but cutting a long story short he got his license.
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Is there any chance you could inbox me your number and I'll call you? I've not got enough posts to send pm's. Cheers.
 
Thanks guys,

Interestingly, the solicitor I ended up with was a good pal of the police man who was interviewing me (they were going drinking together that night, in fact). They put real pressure on me to take the caution, they kept stopping the tape and telling me what to say. The solicitor also told me as i don't work with kids i didn't have to declare it and it wouldn't affect my job. I did inform my employer though. I feel like a total idiot now but my days of being "in the middle of it" are over, I'm a family man and just wanted to do what's best for my family.
 
I live in a pretty secluded area with few job prospects, infuriating to think I could lose my livelihood because of some kid having a laugh.
 
I live in a pretty secluded area with few job prospects, infuriating to think I could lose my livelihood because I defended myself against some kid having a laugh.
 
Gillybear said:
Thanks guys,

Interestingly, the solicitor I ended up with was a good pal of the police man who was interviewing me (they were going drinking together that night, in fact). They put real pressure on me to take the caution, they kept stopping the tape and telling me what to say. The solicitor also told me as i don't work with kids i didn't have to declare it and it wouldn't affect my job. I did inform my employer though. I feel like a total idiot now but my days of being "in the middle of it" are over, I'm a family man and just wanted to do what's best for my family.
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Go to court. Get your own lawyer who specialises in PACE and associated interview procedures. See what he / she says
 
I second what Operator144 says. I used to work in custody areas for around 7 years and saw this type of crap lots of times. Solicitors only get paid for the initial call out and have done for a very long time. So the solicitor probably couldnt be arsed letting it go to court as he wouldnt get any more cash.

You have been given very shoddy advice. Under common law if you feel threatened then you have the right to defend yourself from anyone even a youth and protect your personal space. The force you describe is very reasonable.

If you had not accepted the caution then to be honest i dont think CPS would have ran it to court anyway and if they did its likely you would not have received harsher punishment because if you feel you are innocent you are entitled to defend yourself in court.

The way you have been treated by your solicitor and police is a disgrace because by you accepting the caution this will now be recorded as a detected crime and add to the statistics of the police doing their job when actually you are the one who has been dumped on from a great height for the sake of numbers.
 
your solicitor should have given you legal advice........ not agreed with the police......if he/she was a lazy git ........... which it seems he/she was....... then you have a legal right to challenge the advice given by him/her........ in as much as he/she did not give you legal representation......... he/she gave it to the police by agreeing you should accept the caution.

im assuming the court case you are referring to is the sia taking you to court to revoke your licence........... you have admitted the assault of a minor....... your only re-course is to make a statement in open court as to the actions you took were NOT excessive force............ if you really want to upset the sia ........... ask for your legal right under law for a trial by jury.......... this then means ALL witnesses and police officers must attend court......... if they dont they are in contempt.........including the lazy solicitor........ they cannot refuse to give you trial by jury.......... tell your solicitor this is what you want........ he has to carryout your instructions....... seeming as you are paying his bill for the advice.
 
dannywayoflife said:
I don't think you can have cautions over turned anymore so as you accepted it I think your stuck with it.
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Agreed, but its how that acceptance of guilt was obtained.

You committed an offence, the best you can hope for is to get the ruling quashed due to a legal technicality and through a breach of PACE / Interview procedure.
 
You can get the caution overturned.

You have admitted the assault but how can you use force to defend yourself without technically committing assault? So its down to who believes who said what.

In my opinion you have been misled into accepting the caution because its better for the solicitor and the police officer.

If you accepted the caution at the custody desk then everything will be on cctv and audio and the only way you can challenge the caution is by saying you were misled/ talked into accepting it or you didnt understand what was going on. But be careful.

The best thing i would say to do is try and find another solicitor preferably from a recommendation and see what they have to say but challenge the caution in the first instance.
 
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