Military service

Merchant Maritime Warfare Centre said:
8 years so that we could see the different tours / courses / leadership qualities you have, as in my personal opinion - you may be an excellent soldier / seaman, however if you are to operate in a small team of 4 or less then there is leadership qualities required to ensure both the master trusts your judgement, and the team works seamlessly in the event of a suspicious approach or escalating incident that requires clarity, a clear command structure between PMSC team and ships crew.

2 tours in the sandpit and being an ace guy doesn't automatically ensure your going to make team leader!

The critical requirement of any military service is that of front line experience so back office personnel / chefs / drivers etc would be vetted out before interview so should never be called or actually get past an enquiry for employment.

The colonial / "British is the only way" view whilst understandable is fairly ignorant of what other nations actually do in their militaries and the conflicts they are either still fighting or have done very recently even whilst afghan has been going on for us!

Whether people like it or not marsec is here for ever, and whilst it will go quiet for a couple of years - the shipping industry is very much wiser and has learnt how to defend itself with armed teams in a structured compliant fashion - it's not going to stay the reserve of British only for very long.

Western and in particular British training will always be highly valuable - that market will never go away - there is still lots of work it just depends on you and your willingness to adapt to the market and the industry requirements in order that you be successful and rewarded.
Click to expand...

I accept what you say Operator144 but what you said is not the response given when i asked why 8 years.

I left the RN on boxing day 2004 so i left almost lets say 8 1/2 years ago.
 
I think that the MWC say 8 years - and have put their personal reasons behind it that.

I was assiting with recruiting last week and couldn't accept anyone less than SNCO / Senior Rate level as 'they have the skills developed to communicate with Officers etc compile reports and paperwork that a Junior rate can't' (Company Boss criteria). On top of that was the minimum of 10 years service ending in the last 2 years (or evidentially based employment in a hostile environment if longer) that was imposed by the insurance company.
 
The main point i am trying to make is that someone with 8 years service will not make them a better employee than someone with 4 years service and if anyone thinks like this then its very narrow minded.

Do junior rates not fill in ships logs, prepare weapon firing safety briefings and give them to the captian, or manage ops rooms with keys to all the document safes or even speak to officers?

If its imposed by the insurance company then so be it.
 
You have to remember, generally what rank where the people who are looking at the CV's???

It is then for the interview, background checks and personal references to find out if a person is woirth employing. It is not narrow minded - it is trying to cut down on the amount of CV's you have to look at.

Sorry to be blunt - Yes 8 years will make them better and if you'd have done longer yourself and attained a higher rank then you'd understand why.
 
And most of those 'in office' are ex-Army, so haven't got a clue about what a dabber does anyway.

So you're usually on a losing streak not being from the same Regiment as their pet rabbit
 
No i am sorry i dont believe that reaching the rank of petty officer or chief petty officer or doing 2 years more service would make me a better MSO.
 
Have you ever been a Divisional Officer? Looked after your lad's / lasses welfare out at ten o'clock on a Friday night, sorted out all their personal problems, written their promotional reports to a standard that is acceptable by higher management?

It's these skills that are invaluable. ANYONE can do lookout - as you know, that's the shittiest job on a Watch and Station Bill.
 
In a way yes. I own 2 of my own companies.

And surely you are not saying that all 4 members of a team have to be of divisional officer standard.
 
Yes they should. It's a professional job. Will they all not progress to a TL at some stage?

Teams get split up, lads promoted, replacements flown in. If everyone is at that level it's not such a logistical problem.
 
That has got to be the biggest load of tosh i have ever heard.

How you perform on the job, your leadership qualities and ability to progress should determine whether or not you become a TL.

And to my knowledge i never knew one petty officer that was a DO and implying that anyone less than a DO cant do a professional job would upset quite a lot of people on here i think.
 
I used 'DO' as a word that you would understand. If you'd have been a PO you do a lot of 'Divisional' work - Junior Rates do not. Do they??? no they don't.

In the normal course of events, yes, TL's are determined by the attributes that you mention. However, it doesn't always work like that. My Team got split up on the beach in Sri-Lanka. One lad who was suitable to become a TL, was offered the slot for a different vessel. He wanted to go home, so did. Next lad got offered - he took it. bloke couldn't even spell his name!

That was in the days before 'due diligence' and the checks and controls that are in place now thankfully. Plus, if you have never done the job - how do you have any idea what qualities you need?
 
You will have to forgive me in this respect because i don't know what your rank or service was but i am sure most people will agree to this i hope.

When you do a job for a living and if you are interested in progression you will be looking at your seniors and gleaning as much info as possible and learning the role and people who have the ability to progress are easy enough to spot if you look hard enough.

Who appraises the TL?

All i am trying to say is that people should be given a fair chance. I know going back to the old DO thing but their skills may not even be as high as a leading rate or AB in things such as board and search or ships RF and weapons handling because they tend not to get involved in things like that.
 
Yes people should be given a fair chance. Ex-RN should be viewed in a more favourable manner. They aren't. You should become a TL through your own merit. Nine times out of ten its because your in the right place at the right time as there's enough TL's sat around unable to get a transit let alone promote from within.

My background is irrelevent - I assist in recruiting for various companies, and in my own mind I know what I want. Don't get worked up over military service times as most of the time the CV's that get the table are the ten plus years, 7 tours, SNCO level. OR a CV that leaps out and sys 'I'm good'.

As long as you've done your research, applied for a job that your skill set fits, does it matter - really??

You will never change the 5, 8, 10 years for whatever reason. It may make your blood boil, tough.

I had 3577 CV's to look at for an overseas job last week (Oil & Gas). ONE JOB. If I'm ditching stuff because the format isn't easy to read, what becomes important?
 
Well if you ever need someone who is EX-RN who can tie a few knots give me a shout please as i could do with all the help i can get to earn some beer tokens.
 
1-2 yrs military service could also indicate that the person went through their national service.
Yes, many countries still have this in place.
 
1-2 yrs military service could also indicate that the person went through their national service.
Yes, many countries still have this in place.
 
GOAGT's Policy of only recruiting lads with 8 yrs service is nothing only ADMIN BS- 8yrs where, they have a load of Irish Navy guys working for them Who never seen service beyond doing coastal water patrols and boardings against Spanish fishermen fishing In Irish waters, some with only one trip to the Lebanon in a Q function or Logistics, I never saw a sailor on any of the OPS or check points I was on and certainly not holding a rifle stopping cars or checking boots of cars for weapons in any combat or in any combat orientated situation (exception being former navy who served in the ranger wing or transferred to the army or visa versa).
I know a load of lads with SNCO rank who couldn't lead a duck across the road never mind a small team of 4 men on a ship. So what is the service policy of your Filipino & Estonia TM's then? And what about the lads you have working for you who were with you before the criteria was changed in 2012? Did you dack the ones with less than 8 yrs????

The way some people go on you would swear that an Individual with a degree and only 6 yrs service a few yrs ago could not write a report or take appropriate action in the event of an Suspect Vessel Approach or actual attack. It is not rocket science you know.

And what about the lads with less than 8 yrs service who actually have been deployed as TL's and never had rank but loads of common sense and good infantry man skills, and plenty of transits under belt? I suppose MMWC will tell me their experience doesn't count ????

MMWC, Take a look at this, a guy with good Infantry service, over 5 yrs, 2 yrs transits and plenty of experience as a TL who speaks a few languages and has a foundation/BA degree - are you telling me they don't have the infantry skills or abilities to operate as a TL, taking care of daily admin, conducting BASIC FIREARMS training and other Low ranking NCO or Senior Private tasks - YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME!!!! I know a load of really good lads with the majority of skills mentioned and with the rank mentioned who are seriously switched on are good TL's,l in fact better than some knobs who were SNCO's and hadn't the outside of an office in 10 yrs because they bogged down with Admin. GET A GRIP FGS!!!
 
Lets face it lads, the policy's in place by some of these companies are complete and utter bollox's. For most who have served a good few years within the military or security industry will know that rank or even time served has no real standing within the civilian security industry!.
I say this because i have met, worked under, worked above individuals that left the forces as a senior, officer, served 20+yrs and even SF (british and foreign) who i wouldn't leave alone to look after my goldfish let alone leave on a bridge and conduct a watch or have my back in a hostile CP task in Afghan or Iraq.

Unfortunately in most security companies be it maritime or CP there are a lot of staff in key positions that have absolutely no clue to the job / task they have input into employing lads. This has been highlighted within the maritime sector.
As for time served with refs to lads i have to agree with certain members that time served doesn't matter one little bit, i have had some awesome lads who never made rank left because the forces treated them like shit but has made an excellent CPO / MSO and then on the other hand i have had senior ranked individuals that once left and out of the safety comfort of the armed forces couldn't tie there own shoe laces.......this all being said i have also had some excellent senior ranks and some shit younger lads so to that end its just kind of pot luck and no matter what screening is done in the office nothing counts until your out on the ground!.

With all these qualifications in place a bog standard civvie could do the job as long as he pass's the course which with some companies this is the case, I've worked with out and out civvies who do security and again there are the excellent ones who put ex-military lads to shame and then there are the ones who you wish you had never met!.

The thing most lads need to realise is that if you want the job you will get the quals or have the the ticks in the box that is required if you don't then you have a choice.....get the quals and experience or move on and go for another company.

GOAGT's is policy is very strict and very high is this a good thing or bad???, does this mean that GOAT's operators are the best of the best????? i will keep my opinions to myself but you all have your own and you all have the great british ability to be able to choose for yourself!.

Rgds

Bevs
 
I did 8 years service......... joined the army thinking..........get sea sick on water........scared of heights..... join land army......boy did i **** it up......did helicopters planes and ferries.....all in my first tour of ireland(18 yrs old)......... 1 year after i joined..... drove around bandit country with 1 escort on a 52 seater coach(full) and our escort had an smg and 32 rounds... contrary to belief.... im still scared of heights and i get sea sick....... so went to afghan as DH and luckily no water....still did the flying thing though....
 
Back
Top