Two levels of CP licence?

Should there be two levels of SIA CP licence?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 36.9%

  • No

    Votes: 41 63.1%
  • Total voters
    65
D

DP1

Full Registered User
Further to a discussion posted elsewhere on the forum, what are peoples thoughts on this subject?

Should there be two levels of SIA licence for Close Protection?

1. The entry level which sticks with the current requirements, plus the requirement for a full UK driving licence; and

2. The advanced level, when a person has completed an advanced driving course, and advanced medic course, and a surveillance course.
 
Is having 1 license not a complete farce let alone 2. I heard through a third part so I dont know how gen it is that there is a company offering a CP course up north whereby the Gov pay £1000 and the individual pays £400 for a 3 week CP course. That a side any muppet that has a couple of quid can get a license so by having an advanced license is only going to get the same muppets with a couple of quid getting that license also. Then quality guys who may be real deal operatives who dont have much cash may get left behind. bearing in mind that most courses are not pass if your good fail if your not, you generally pay your money, get your course and get your badge. The mere suggestions of a second license would only be of benefit to those who want to swagger around flashing their badge which is nothing more than a money exercise with the only beneficiaries being the Gov and the trainers.
 
I think an Advanced driving Course would certainly be a benefit to mitigate risks both to client and team, similarly an advanced med course would be advantageous however what theatre would this qualification be relevant for? If in UK it would probably cause more problems than it is worth because

a. There is enough trauma cover by Emergency services for accidents, with limited travel time to a treatment establishment. Some applied first bt first responders may hamper treatment at the treatment establishment.

b. In the current climate of 'I'll sue your arse' most medics would be unsure as to who to treat and to what level without fear of reprisal (stupid I know but that's the western world).

c. If working in hostile climate, who cares about the above, all team members would want to know their mates can look after them when the s**t hits the fan so yes, definately advanced medics for this.

Surveillance courses should be aimed at anti and counter surveillance, not surveillance itself. This needs to be left to the experts with the right type of legal parameters. Anti and counter surveillance though should be integral to mitigating the threat to both clients and team, and therefore would be very useful to have.

They're my thoughts on it!!
 
The way people work is their own passport to more work, it doesnt really matter if you have done a good course or bad course as long as you have learnt as you have worked. You can augment your skills by working with good companies and good teams and if you have the right attitude you will be recommended and get further work, a willingness to learn is paramount, I learn something on every contract I work on and I hope that the service I provide improves as I go along.

As an employer I will take people on with little experience and monitor them, if the "have it" then they get more work, if the dont, well, they dont!!
KT
 
DP1 said:
I think the theory is that if you have done surveillance, you MAY find it easier to spot a surveillance team following your principle because you know what to look for.
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Then teach Counter Surveillance by all means, but a whole Surveillance package is not necessary for CP work.
 
Agree with you RAPIER; anti and counter surveillance are the only real necessities for CP work. Surveillance per se doesn't lend itself to CP operators as you need a dedicated team for this, and who would be watching the Principal? (unless part of a very large team). You were correct in your previous comment stating those with surveillance training also know what to look for, but this can be simplified for the relevant courses.
 
I think Jannerlad1273 has a very good point. Without further checks and balances ensuring the highest quality on the second license, you'd end up having some blubbery turd with lots of cash and not much else swanning around with the level 2.

Potentially good lads could be caught in a vicious cycle of "no cash to upgrade to level two = no forthcoming jobs = no cash" etc etc.
 
I voted NO. If a CPO is pushed to get a "level2" license just to keep his job, but has no interest in actually improving his set of skills, he'll choose cheapest training provider with matching quality and do the 'training' just for the eyes. On the other hand, if the CPO actually seeks for training to improve his skills, no artificial motivation in a form of "levels" is necessary. A reasonable person should understand nobody's perfect and invest in improving his qualifications.
 
Pretty much everyone who has done this 'job' for a while will have, at some point, worked with crap. Their CV looked good, they talked the talk in the interview and at the start of the detail and when all was going to plan, they looked and acted the part.
Then things went a bit pear shaped and they showed their true colours - Brown.

Having a two-tier system, that instantly shows who has undertaken the basics, and who has tried to progress and passed recognised 'follow-on' training will help gauge who is fit for which role.
I wouldn't have a problem working with a guy holding a basic badge in a role that suited his/her experience and capability, and I'd like to bring in guys with advanced badges for roles that need that little bit extra; as it stands I have to rely on nothing going wrong, or that they didn't lie on the CV. Potentially that could get someone killed, and if that someone were me, I wouldn't be very happy about it
 
Close Protection Course

I agree with RKT the best asset is yourself, with the right attitude you should be able to prove your worth above others whether you have attended a good or bad C.P course. At S.T.P when we look for Close Protection Operatives we tend to look at the person rarther than the qualifications, obviously having an S.I.A Licence is a must but as far as were concerned its certainly not a ticket to sucsess. We would always vet Operatives our selves before putting them in a Team, your only as good as the person next to you!

We believe as far as C.P goes the basics are your C.P skills and your Surveillance skills, these are needed to a high standard as everything is based upon it, along with your Standard Operating Procedures. Driving, Medic, Firearms etc all depends on the theatre the Operative or Team is planning on working and i think this can be carried out as a bolt on to the Current Close Protection Licence and so long as these extra qualifications come via a well established Company and relevant qualifications then i dont see the need for a part 2 of the c.p Licence, we would always vet anyway no matter what qualifications the person has!
 
DP1 said:
Further to a discussion posted elsewhere on the forum, what are peoples thoughts on this subject?

Should there be two levels of SIA licence for Close Protection?

1. The entry level which sticks with the current requirements, plus the requirement for a full UK driving licence; and

2. The advanced level, when a person has completed an advanced driving course, and advanced medic course, and a surveillance course.
Click to expand...


Why do you think we are discussing this question?

This is the question we should all be asking ourselves and the answer that follows will answer the 2 questions above.

It remains a simple matter that the industry is now awash with dross. This 'dross' is not necessarily at any fault of the new individuals who wish to make a career out of this professional profession but is at the hands of the SIA in their very mediocre standards that have been implemented.

Please don't say to yourselves - "Oh, not this old chestnut again!".

It is indeed the reason. The Principals/ Clients out there want to actually see what they are getting for their money - not some two bit piece of plastic that anyone can get if they can afford it. The experienced guys on the circuit want to set themselves apart from the dross. They want to get the better jobs - the more creme de la creme positions that as far as they are concerned should not even be in an open basket for the newbies to pick at.

Two licenses is not the answer. The answer lays at the door of increasing the basic standards beginning at day 1, week 1. If this is conducted then those Principals/ Clients will know what they are getting in a better reputation of UK CP PLC and the more experienced will be at a little more rest knowing that the training of the newbies has been effective, professional and thorough but above all else, realistic to the operational demands on UK streets.

The solution in the mean time?

This is an individual game folks until the part when you are selected to be a team member. As an individual you need to invest in yourself. Set yourself above the rest by continuing in personal development. If you are one of no doubt many on here that believe that Advanced Driving is a must for CP then go out and get qualified as opposed to being an armchair theorist. If you're one that Medical procedure excites you then go out and learn and get qualified to the best you can. Get SSO & CSO courses, learn about TSCM, Surveillance, Martial Arts/ fighting techniques, Security & Risk Management Degrees, CPP's, physical education quals, languages, Firearms Instr. qual, Intruder detection sensors, overt/ covert CCTV, IT sy, lock picking, and all those courses that may benefit looking after the Boss's children; scuba, skiing, horse riding, etc etc.

There is a wealth to do in this diverse occupation. Stop writing on this forum and get out and do it.


2 licenses? - No. Besides, the SIA would not entertain it.



They didn't even get the first one right.



Rich H
 
Let me digress a little:

Advanced Driving: observation, early anticipation and planning, approaching and negotiating hazards, time to react.

Medical Training: save life, prevent further injury.

Surveillance Awareness: understanding what to look for if someone is following you.

Are these not important in CP?

I agree with Rich H when he said that there are many other ways to improve your skillset, however this is a way of raising the basic standard of UK CP Operator.

For those raising the point of money and how much it will cost to achieve these qualifications, let me ask this question:

How much does it cost to study for 7 years at medical school to become a doctor?

Why should someone who is considered a Professional in the medical field have to spend thousands of pounds and study for so long, yet someone else who wants to be considered a Professional in Close Protection, be able to do so after a two week course and then cant be bothered to invest a little more time and money in themselves to become better at their job???

Unless the SIA raise the bar for a CP licence and at least double the compulsary 150 hours, introduce a fitnes test (another bone of contention, I know!) and include the need for a full driving licence, how else can we raise the standard of operators and not let every tom, dick and harry decide he is now a bodyguard?

I appreciate that many CP operators are excelling in their roles without these qualifications at present, but how many of them would not be willing to invest in themselves to become better operators?

Taking on board the comments about Anti and Counter Surveillance, what better way of understanding this than actually doing it yourself. If I am surveillance trained then am I not also Anti and Counter surveillance trained, by virute of the fact that I know how to do it? I am not talking about having a surveillance team incorporated within the CP Team, as someone pointed out earlier, it is the subject of each CPO knowing how to carry out surveillance therefore knowing where to look for someone following them.
 
The employer does this anyway in the vetting stage and then on the ground, I presume. Wasters/benifit cheats would probably find a way to get tax payers to pay for all these extra courses if it where official, through the jobcentre, in order to get "a job". I think some skills can't be taught.
 
Guy's

How many post is there on this forum with regards to slating the SIA for doing a for want of a word crap job, and now you want to add to there ever growing pile of work. you do not require a course to spot a vehicle following you and most course's teach little or the basics that you already know. as for driving well again i should not even need to go there. hands up how many have had quality time in a B6 on any course or before deploying to Iraq, didnt think so. what type of vehicle's are used on most courses/ not the one you may drive, and last in the private sector the use chauffer's not CPO's. I have neither seen a job advertised in CP for a driver and instructor maybe. medic wise come on would you trust a guy that has done a basic or even advanced course?. I want a guys that was a medic in the mil or ambulance service, a driver that was in the RLC or instruct's and a comm's guys that was a Sig otherwise its a waste of time, right guy for the right job. file 13 otherwise. I'm speaking words of wisdom here, if you want to wast your cash crack on, if you are telling me that all these things give you a better chance I would say you are mistaken,

As i keep say in post its the person and personality that gets you the job, if you cannot multi task or not a team player I dont care what qualification you hold they are worth jack.

H20
 
Guys,

Its yourself as a person the keeps the standards high not the course you attended, each situation that you deal with in the security industry may require a different approach so be flexable and adaptable you dont need anyone to teach you that, if you do your in the wrong industry, we are here to advice on security issue's that may effect the client, if you dont know where to even look for work there is little hope for you securing a position. dont forget guys there are reps from the companys you are bad mouthing reading your posts take it from me.

h20
 
DP1 said:
Taking on board the comments about Anti and Counter Surveillance, what better way of understanding this than actually doing it yourself. If I am surveillance trained then am I not also Anti and Counter surveillance trained, by virute of the fact that I know how to do it? I am not talking about having a surveillance team incorporated within the CP Team, as someone pointed out earlier, it is the subject of each CPO knowing how to carry out surveillance therefore knowing where to look for someone following them.
Click to expand...


If you intend to use Surveillance as a skill for other work then I'd agree, but to do a full surveillance course, just for CP work, I think it would be a waste of hours that could be better spent on CP skills. You don't need to spend hours boxing the junctions etc., just a days input from a Surveillance operative is sufficient.

The surveillance teams I've worked with in the past (Met Police ones, Box and Military) have been invisible, even when you know they are there.
 
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