Hey used to work the doors in the 80s-90s

C

chaz

Full Registered User
Hi all, i am thinking. Shall i or sharnt i post;) So i have decided to go ahead stick in a post into this section for the hell of it:p.
So i thought i would say hi and tell you about how it was when i worked.
I have had very little to do with working the doors these days, though i do have alot of friends who still work them. In my spare time at the weekends i used to work the clubs from 1986-1998. I worked in the Midlands and even worked in Wigan in 1989 for a company run by a guy called Mick Lyons who was a mate of the now deceased Karate Ka Gary Spires. Quite a heavy outfit back then, but good loyal lads.
I have read some of the threads in this section and found them very interesting, and a world apart from the days when i worked.
When i was working the doorman used to be the handy lad that the club/pub used to hire to keep the Peace. The local bad lads used to look upon the doorman as the fast gun and would target him for a fight. Yes some in my time used to have a bit of a heavy handed approach, but you must remember how things were back then. Not many if at all respected the doorman. We used to have the local football hooligans target particular clubs because they knew the doormen were handy lads:rolleyes:
There was also a lot of resentment towards the police by a lot of doormen back then as well. The reason for this was because, we the doormen used to sort out the fights and trouble. More so even in the streets, and the police were no were to be seen until the trouble was over (well in fact they were around the corner). They knew the doormen would be in the thick of it doing what they could not do out in the streets. When it was all over only then did they arrive and single out the easy target....the doormen, the drunken lads all disappeared into the back ground.
Then over time things got worse and worse, and then came the arrival of the students...in there masses. My home town of Derby became a student city over night, that's when things really changed. Suddenly students would think it easy game for them to attack doormen and then cry foul when they did not get it there way:rolleyes:, and over night they all knew there rights when you put a hand on them to escort them from the property.
The police were directing there vendetta more and more towards the doormen, and little collaborations between them and the landlords became apparent. Why the collaborations? Because the police threatened the landlords licence so they had to play ball. Schemes such as "Pubwatch" were set up were door staff were asked to volunteer to attend training courses. Even the ones that did, the police were still making a B-line towards the doorman at the end of an incident:rolleyes:. We nicknamed the scheme "Doorman watch":mad:
You know what, in about 1997 IIRC the doormen of Derby were so pissed of that we all got together in various meetings and were going to do a series of flash strikes at the weekend. We were sick of cleaning up the trouble in the streets out side our clubs while the police were standing by watching, and then they would target the doorman when it all stopped. Our theory was that if we did a lightning strike on a Saturday night then the police would have to sort out the trouble, in which they could not with out doormen. So the clubs and pubs would have no choice but to close up loosing the city millions of ££s. It was a interesting time and got the police very worried. So much in fact that we grabbed the headlines of the two local newspapers and we even had meetings with the head of the Derbyshire Constabulary...twice. We put out point across and they were listening. Were it all went wrong was that a few doormen had subscribed to the local voluntary schemes that the police had set up, so they did not feel impelled to strike:( Boy do they regret that today now that the little pilot schemes have now become the controlling factor that is the sia). But had they not been the little yes men of the police who knows... We had 200 doormen at the meetings and other doormen from surrounding cites were attending and watching. Think about it, there were and are more doormen that postmen in the UK and they had/have a union, a voice...think about it. What voice do doormen have now....the sia LOL!!!!
Like i said earlier at the beginning of my ramblings, i don't have anything to do with the doors anymore. But i do speak to some of the existing lads who now work along side the "new wave" doormen. And boy have things changed, they are now the yes men of the police and the whole Sean has changed. I am so glad i am out of it, it was only a bit of spare cash and not worth the hassle anymore:D
I will say this though before the floor is open to attack me. No matter what DS course and little shiny badge you may have, and with a flowers on;) Or how professional a persona you think your giving of. You will always be seen as a lowly doorman by the general public, few will respect you and see you as an easy target, and will look at your chosen career as a joke. I had several people (usually women) say to me in my time, your a doorman because you cant do anything else:mad: Boy that used to piss me of, if only they knew what i did for a living;).
You guys who are working the doors now, you have no choice but to play ball with the controlling factors, and you have my pity as well as my respect. But watch your back out there boys and girls, stay safe:cool:
 
Interesting though i am not remotely surprised. Though 20 years ago he was running a sizable proportion of things in them parts, i suppose things can come back and bit ya in the backside;)
Original i met him when his guys did a hostile take over bid on a club i was working at in the Midlands, he was expanding his business. He liked the way i handled my self during the skirmish, and offered me a job with his outfit.
Stayed with his lot for a year or so, never heard anymore about him when i left.
Were is he now then?
 
LOL! thanks Annie. I originally joined the forum for the Close Protection section,thats my working field. But i noticed this section and could not resist. I suppose once you have worked as a doorman, you have a bond of sorts:D....no matter how old school one now is in these politically correct times:D Should i now say door supervisors:p
 
I read a very interesting book written by a guy who did doors years ago, cant recall his name now but he's rather infamous (so much so i forgot haha, but i read like 3 books a week so i tend to loose track)

I think in my old age i recall things from my youth that today simply would make these young pups hair curl. Changed an awful lot between when i last went clubbing and when i started doing doorwork. But hey ho all things must change i guess.
 
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That would be the chap, killed a few afternoons with a bottle of wine in Greece a year back, interesting read
 
Ah yes, the summers were warmer, the days were longer, the beer tasted better (cheaper), the music had a melody and not just a beat, the girls were more willing, the pay was better, the guys more loyal, and the doors a lot, lot more fun.
Halcyon Days indeed. Welcome Chaz.
 
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See i always remember that you could have a bit of a laugh with the doorstaff and they seemed a lot more friendly in those long ago days that i frequented nightclubs. People had respect for them too which seems to have gone by the wayside nowadays, or maybe it's my aging years that has given me alzeihemers and i just like to think it was better:rolleyes:
 
:D You guys;) I am not wearing rosy coloured spectacles, far from it. But i do know that 1976 was a hot summer, and the cortina was a hot car. And yes the girls in the 80s were more up for it:D
But even though this may be deemed as controversial, i will say that when i worked the doors. There was no tip toeing around like scared little kittens, afraid of two things. A customer will make false accusations against a doorman, thus starting a ball ache of a process against him. And secondly the police do not like the doormans face, and will take away ones little shiny badge. So there for one cant work and feed ones family. No verbal warnings, no written warnings as one has in other jobs. Just suspension and then loss of license LOL!!! What the f** happend guys:D
I cant think of another job of work were the police can dictate weather a man can or can not work, do the doormen work for the police now??. Mind you i have heard that in Derby the police want door staff to wear little dayglo green waist coats LOL!!:p I have heard of doormen worrying to death because a policeman has had to talk to them about an incident. Asking and almost begging to keep there jobs during an appeal:eek:
The way i see it these days, there is no longer a level playing field. When there is a big kick of and the doorman are the targets or in the middle of it. There must be some apprehension as to whether the doorman can protect himself. Because he knows that with every incident he is involved in, to the police he will be guilty until proven innocent. Doormen have had to be in the middle of some very hairy and scary skirmishes, and they dont have batons and CS gas to control the violence. These days they have a few compulsory training days run by the police who have never or could they do the job that the doorman does. I wont even go into the reasonable force crap that one is taught these days. But i will say that after 30 years of being a student and instructor of 3 martial arts disciplines. Things are easier said than done when one is in the thick of it and a bunch of football hooligans are squared of in front of you;)
When i see doormen these days i admire the guys and gals for putting up with the crap thrown at them from both directions. They stand vigilant over the pissed up public....but with shorter teeth and less rights than they used to.
Please if i have this wrong and am out of touch tell me so, i am listening. I am just expressing my thoughts out loud:)
 
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Jesus i was like 5 in 1976, only pub i went near at that age was the 'only pub in the village' where the locals were all farmers and landowners, and the duke box was VERY dodgy, they played coits out back and darts inside and there was a nice big real fire and a veritable menagerie of dead stuffed wamals adorning the place. I was more reminiscing the early 90's myself when i was a young whippersnapper haha. Funny how you end up back in old foisty country pubs when you get to your mid 30's because you like to talk over a nice glass of merlot or local ale and don't know any of the music they play in clubs any longer
 
CHAZ, chaz, chaz.
Oh christ your going to get it now, INCOMING !
You'll be called a dinosaur, told that your sort are long gone thank god, a thuggy, and be told its the likes of you that has ruined the good DS name:

reason and empathy is the way forward. Words and back rubs, training and licensing is the order of the day. Begone you wwruffian !

And it was foster grants not rose tinted glasses down here in the smoke.
No wonder you had so much trouble with those suspect pinkish glasses on,
I don't know, you provincial boys. (dig Dig)

Answer me this.
30 years plus I earned £50 squid for 6 odd hours in a nightmare of a pub down in Chatham. Approx sub £10per hour + a couple of drinks at the end.
What were the wages up your way, back then.?
Why are guys getting less than us now, compared to back then ?
 
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Oddjob my brother, i would like to say first of that i have never had a criminal record. I have always worked as a professional EP/CPO for respectable clients for 20 years. All i am doing is saying it as it is, or how i see it;)
I laughed out loud at your "giving back rubs" comment:D And your not far wrong are you;)
But you really need to point out to me if you would which bit in the above that i posted is not true;)
Now about pay, mate you tell me. It seems that you are older than i am 43 years young:p In the midlands the pay in the 80s and 90s depended on which places you worked. Landlords and club owners wanted the best lads on there doors, especially when an establishment has a reputation of being a football haunt. When i worked at my first pub in the 80s i was paid £40 i believe. The 90s i was paid between £60-£120. I was head doorman at one of the country's leading rave venues and was paid £120 a night.
The guys who were paid the lowest worked for agencies (and i use that term very loosely)
On the subject of agencies, i often laugh when i see that there are respectable doorman agencies that are run by the old ex hooligans and old school doormen of the 80s and 90 LOL!!!
But i hear what your saying brother. But like i said, doormen/women are professionals in your own minds. I think i can confidently say that a large proportion of the public still see the doorman as meat heads;)
I mean just ask anyone in the street to describe a doorman, i bet the professionalism isn't mentioned.
I look forward to seeing were this thread goes:D
 
Hell even the mighty press still refer to Ds as bouncers which to be fair is a term i absolutley hate, as it does just give people a vision of what it used to be like, and as we pay a lot of money these days to be licensed and governed its about time they used the given name of Door supervisors
 
chaz said:
Oddjob my brother, i would like to say first of that i have never had a criminal record. I have always worked as a professional EP/CPO for respectable clients for 20 years. All i am doing is saying it as it is, or how i see it;)
I laughed out loud at your "giving back rubs" comment:D And your not far wrong are you;)
But you really need to point out to me if you would which bit in the above that i posted is not true;)
Now about pay, mate you tell me. It seems that you are older than i am 43 years young:p In the midlands the pay in the 80s and 90s depended on which places you worked. Landlords and club owners wanted the best lads on there doors, especially when an establishment has a reputation of being a football haunt. When i worked at my first pub in the 80s i was paid £40 i believe. The 90s i was paid between £60-£120. I was head doorman at one of the country's leading rave venues and was paid £120 a night.
The guys who were paid the lowest worked for agencies (and i use that term very loosely)
On the subject of agencies, i often laugh when i see that there are respectable doorman agencies that are run by the old ex hooligans and old school doormen of the 80s and 90 LOL!!!
But i hear what your saying brother. But like i said, doormen/women are professionals in your own minds. I think i can confidently say that a large proportion of the public still see the doorman as meat heads;)
I mean just ask anyone in the street to describe a doorman, i bet the professionalism isn't mentioned.
I look forward to seeing were this thread goes:D
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Your career sounds fairly similar to mine own, but mine had the addition of good looks as well. I am a model operator so to speak. (stay out of this twells) :D:p
Why mention the criminal record subject. (suspicion, some close calls maybe :cool:) but it does raise a few points.
Whats the film were they say when looking for a mercenary.
Don't pick the guy with the scar, pick the guy who gave him the scar.
Also if its acceptable to have 2000+ police men with criminal records of one kind or another,(some one check that one please) then whats the difference with doormen. We called for police asistance at 04.00 on saturday to remove a guy who was outside on the road picking fights and a danger to himself and others, at 10.30 I got a call from the operator to see if everything was OK. I digress.
Drivers get speeding and parking tickets as occupational hazards,
Yet a job that involves violent confrontations, as part of the job, and considering the court and polices attitude to DS, well charges are going to be an occupational hazard, unless you are clever, lucky or devious.
If the DS used a quarter of the violence I see on Police, strop, action.
Well you would end up in the dock as quick as a scouser heading for the loo when its his round.
With all this bloody training and licensing, probably more than the plastic PCs, you'd think we'd be seen as the 4th emergency service and be given suitable billing and respect.
I saw a comment that there are more DS than postmen, and they have a union to represent them.
The jobs getting harder, poorer paid, and more pathetic in the publics view. For christ sake get some one to speak for the poor and getting poorer DS.

ps. sadly all you say is so true.
 
Mate clearly i mentioned not having the criminal record because the word "thug" was used. This term will undoubtedly conjure up a picture of some great jail bird bruiser who goes out looking for trouble. This is far from me. Also i mentioned it because i had a dig at the police, so i have no personal axe to grind with them from any bad expereance . So that's why i mentioned it to set the record straight. Things are not always as they seem to the uninformed;)
 
Oddjob said:
Your career sounds fairly similar to mine own, but mine had the addition of good looks as well. I am a model operator so to speak. (stay out of this twells) :D:p
Why mention the criminal record subject. (suspicion, some close calls maybe :cool:) but it does raise a few points.
Whats the film were they say when looking for a mercenary.
Don't pick the guy with the scar, pick the guy who gave him the scar.
Also if its acceptable to have 2000+ police men with criminal records of one kind or another,(some one check that one please) then whats the difference with doormen. We called for police asistance at 04.00 on saturday to remove a guy who was outside on the road picking fights and a danger to himself and others, at 10.30 I got a call from the operator to see if everything was OK. I digress.
Drivers get speeding and parking tickets as occupational hazards,
Yet a job that involves violent confrontations, as part of the job, and considering the court and polices attitude to DS, well charges are going to be an occupational hazard, unless you are clever, lucky or devious.
If the DS used a quarter of the violence I see on Police, strop, action.
Well you would end up in the dock as quick as a scouser heading for the loo when its his round.
With all this bloody training and licensing, probably more than the plastic PCs, you'd think we'd be seen as the 4th emergency service and be given suitable billing and respect.
I saw a comment that there are more DS than postmen, and they have a union to represent them.
The jobs getting harder, poorer paid, and more pathetic in the publics view. For christ sake get some one to speak for the poor and getting poorer DS.

ps. sadly all you say is so true.
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Sound very much like we are singing from the same sheet my friend. In the mid 90s The Derby doormen tried to start the ball rolling regarding getting a doorman union going. Sadly there will always be some who do not want this to happen. In our case it was certain doorman agency who was only thinking if there own pockets. So if the lightning strikes had taken place, the said agency would have shipped guys in from neighbouring towns and collected the prize of running all the doors. This would have started trouble among the door staff.
As they say, there is always one who runs against the grain.
Today i doubt very much if DS could ever get representation of there own. System control has all gone to far for so long.
 
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Great discussion.
Our teeth ARE much shorter these days. Especially when your bread and butter could be stripped from you so easily. Could even lose your business. The pay IS worse. The police STILL wait around the corner. Folk STILL think your a meathead. Which actually suits me fine, as im not that interested in talking to many of them anyway(usually because they are meatheads themselves)
It WILL NOT however, prevent me from doing what must be done.
Mucho respect to all that came through the old days better for it.
I was also tought not to fear the man with the scar.
 
Welcome Chaz, excellent thread mate, and respect for a fellow old schooler, much of what you have said I can identify with, and oh have things changed since our days, unfortunately for the worse from the doormans perspective.
I started in 84, right bang in the middle of the skinhead verses greasers era, and quite often saturday night would end up in a bloodbath on both sides, with the doormen in the middle, and the old bill nowhere to be seen.
Ok I admit I'm glad those days are over, sort of,but at least you knew where you stood. These days the doorman Police relationship is getting better, but now the Govt and the SIA are involved, you cant breathe for red tape and PC dogma that bains most doormans lives, joys of being piggy in the middle I guess.
Unfortunately violence will always be just that, violence, the PC brigade have now introduced " conflict management" which does have its uses, but the impression I get from the SIA is one of violent outbursts dont exsist in pubs and clubs anymore, people just stand and argue with each other with no fisticuffs ever occuring ever.
It's about time the SIA and PC mob got out from behind there desks and spent quite a few nights in a nightclub, so they can instruct us all where we are going wrong, in dealing with the violence that so obviously doesn't exist.
Time to go....... soapbox anyone.........Kato
 
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