Consultants guide to Ship Anti Piracy work in GoA
- Thread starter Merchant Maritime Warfare Centre
- Start date
skegnessboxer
Full Registered User
nick wots the website as iam intrested in doing the courses u recomend as i want to get into that side off the industry
lukeecjess06
New Member
Blog was a very goos read, and helpfull!
Merchant Maritime Warfare Centre
Security Directors
I am speaking on the 9th - look forward to seeing you all there!
fonzarelli
New Member
Nick, good article, when do you estimate the STO course will be certified? ISPS is behind the curve with SSO relating to counter-piracy; perhaps ISPS would acredit your course? Unfortunately the ISPS is the only security course that is industry recognised, hence the majority requirement for employment mandate that course.
Acropolis
What we also need is a central system for reporting suspicious activity. You guys out there probably report back to your own ops rooms but where does that info go....particularly in the Somali Basin. We are all still a bit parochial. If we really want to stop and restrict the pirate successes we should be more ready to cooperate not just at our level but at all contractual levels. Pigs may fly. The activity in the gulf has been pretty limited in the past few months but hectic in and around the Seychelles. Companies now ordering vessels to go no closer to Somalia than 69 degrees east.....you can almost see India from there.
Comment:
Very good points! A central system like the ROC provide in Iraq would be awesome!
To have the relevant information for example:
Vessel type Bulk Carrier/Chemical Tanker/Oil Tanker/Super Yacht
Vessel speed
Control measures if any? Strong/Medium/Weak
Direction of transit Easterly/Westerly
Vessel maximum speed Did the vessel have a reserve speed or was it running at maximum?
Coalition response time – IF any response?
Response measures which facilitate the escape? Evasive Manoeuvres etc
Would offer the guys on the ground alot of help!
Paddyg8599
Make sure you have a stomach as strong as a bin, can sleep in hot humid rock hard beds, or decks, and can converse in 7 different languages..... but most of all.... it would be a massive help if some of those who go to sea with a marsec team.... could actually understand or read, or better still navigate on a chart !!!!!!.
Comment:
This is so so true!
Argyll
Unless a company offers you a 30 day on, 15 day off rotation at £200 + a day, it's not worth living your life at the end of a phone call......
Comment:
It is possible to live your life on the end of a phone, as people will call. If you are the type that needs a long term deal and job security then you may never actually earn your true potential. The money is always lower for the long term security contracts – as the large companies exploit this.
CorsairHunter
IMSCA - The International Maritime Security Consultants Association, which will represent the operators, the companies and the related requirements such as training, standards, quality assurance, legal and insurance issues and links and importantly, a route to ensure clients can confirm the competency and experience of the companies/operators they seek to engage.
Comment:
Interesting concept, I can’t wait for all of the courses everyone will have to do to satisfy all of these requirements.
I’m all for standards however I would appreciate what qualifications you currently perceive each consultant should hold?
Nick
Look forward to your speech on the 9th.
Kindest Regards
Jon
What we also need is a central system for reporting suspicious activity. You guys out there probably report back to your own ops rooms but where does that info go....particularly in the Somali Basin. We are all still a bit parochial. If we really want to stop and restrict the pirate successes we should be more ready to cooperate not just at our level but at all contractual levels. Pigs may fly. The activity in the gulf has been pretty limited in the past few months but hectic in and around the Seychelles. Companies now ordering vessels to go no closer to Somalia than 69 degrees east.....you can almost see India from there.
Comment:
Very good points! A central system like the ROC provide in Iraq would be awesome!
To have the relevant information for example:
Vessel type Bulk Carrier/Chemical Tanker/Oil Tanker/Super Yacht
Vessel speed
Control measures if any? Strong/Medium/Weak
Direction of transit Easterly/Westerly
Vessel maximum speed Did the vessel have a reserve speed or was it running at maximum?
Coalition response time – IF any response?
Response measures which facilitate the escape? Evasive Manoeuvres etc
Would offer the guys on the ground alot of help!
Paddyg8599
Make sure you have a stomach as strong as a bin, can sleep in hot humid rock hard beds, or decks, and can converse in 7 different languages..... but most of all.... it would be a massive help if some of those who go to sea with a marsec team.... could actually understand or read, or better still navigate on a chart !!!!!!.
Comment:
This is so so true!
Argyll
Unless a company offers you a 30 day on, 15 day off rotation at £200 + a day, it's not worth living your life at the end of a phone call......
Comment:
It is possible to live your life on the end of a phone, as people will call. If you are the type that needs a long term deal and job security then you may never actually earn your true potential. The money is always lower for the long term security contracts – as the large companies exploit this.
CorsairHunter
IMSCA - The International Maritime Security Consultants Association, which will represent the operators, the companies and the related requirements such as training, standards, quality assurance, legal and insurance issues and links and importantly, a route to ensure clients can confirm the competency and experience of the companies/operators they seek to engage.
Comment:
Interesting concept, I can’t wait for all of the courses everyone will have to do to satisfy all of these requirements.
I’m all for standards however I would appreciate what qualifications you currently perceive each consultant should hold?
Nick
Look forward to your speech on the 9th.
Kindest Regards
Jon
CorsairHunter
Longterm Registered User
Jonboy,
One of the key purposes of the Association is to ensure that the types, standards and specific courses/qualifications that are available in the industry can be assessed, reviewed and recommendations from the Association can be made, or ideally, the Association would collate a structure of definitive qualifications that would be recognised and would avoid all the tit for tat "Ours is better than yours" training competition that currently exists.
Thoughts?
Aye,
CorsairHunter.
One of the key purposes of the Association is to ensure that the types, standards and specific courses/qualifications that are available in the industry can be assessed, reviewed and recommendations from the Association can be made, or ideally, the Association would collate a structure of definitive qualifications that would be recognised and would avoid all the tit for tat "Ours is better than yours" training competition that currently exists.
Thoughts?
Aye,
CorsairHunter.
Si
As this ASSOCIATION crept up on us and is now in existence? (One of the key purposes of the Association is..............)
John
I agree the Maritime element of the Security Industry has become a training industry as is/was the SIA CP element. However as with all courses they only really survive IF there is emloyment after it.
The majority of STCW-95 and ENG 1 certificates are already in place and are industry standard, it would be interesting to know how many MARSEC guys have these?
SSO, STO, PFSO, CSO courses is a subject we could discuss till the cow's come home.
I know of guys who have SSO, CSO & PFSO and haven't done a day in a port let alone a day at sea - companies selling extra day for your CSO and an extra morning for your PFSO are exactly the types of company that should be investigated.
How on earth are you going to get a position as a PFSO without having worked your way up through the management structure of a port, beggars belief.
CSO's are generally 50 - 60 year old captains who have had enough of going to sea and now work a desk job in the shipping companys HQ - How many companies are going to give a CSO job to an X Mil guy with Maritime Security experience? Not many!
However people still take guys hard earned cash for qualifications they will never use.
I am reserved against ASSOCIATIONS as we already have some in our industry, which are registered companies and are an association by name only. I was always lead to believe Associations should have a committee, hold an AGM, with all financial dealings being published annually and voted on....... However that is another story!
Just food for thought.......
As an operator and training provider I could comment on the valid points and the not so valid points you make but it would just be churning up old ground. There are a zillion threads on the subject!
John
I have sent out " Feelers " to various companies claiming to do MARSEC.
I have all the certificates for any seagoing security position, and then some more.
I have been in MARSEC for some +14 yrs now, and still going strong.
I have mil background with a military unit that is considered SF in many countries.
I have PMC experience from Iraq.
How is it that so few companies are getting back with me?
Well, first, you can't sell me any courses, as I have them all already.
You can't offer me a job with crappy pay, and suggest that I need to work my way up and " Pay my dues " as I would laugh at your face.
I would also see through all of the false claims of the company, if they would not be a bona fide player in the MARSEC field.
I have also find out how FEW companies are ACTUALLY CONDUCTING any real anti-piracy operations in GOA. You would be amazed on the amount of false claims by companies.
Well, do you consider this doing anti-piracy in GOA - Company X held a briefing at their office at Houston for the Officer's of M/S Crap regarding the piracy threat in GOA?
Now they are conducting anti-piracy Ops in GOA according to their website.
Now they are " World leader in training " in anti-piracy.
Now they are " Premium Maritime Security Company " ( few years back nobody knew anything about them ).
How about claims in counter-piracy?
Only a military force would be conducting such. NOT A SINGLE private company has been contracted to conduct one.
There is so much BS around the MARSEC industry now, that it will take much to separate the fakes from the real thing.
Fact remains, there are very, very little jobs around the anti-piracy industry.
The future will not change that, the change would have come already if it was to come.
IMO has clearly stated that they are against armed security.
This is something that shipping companies will listen to.
Unarmed security? It is cheaper to get the crew trained in anti-piracy unarmed methods than keeping a contracted team onboard.
Insurance prices going up?
Well, companies will put that on the product and we the consumers will pay it, simple as that.
If you are not already in MARSEC ( and have the right background and experience ), I would not put one cent in any course.
It is like getting a driver's license at the age of 60 just because you want to get to F1 and it is a requirement there!
I have all the certificates for any seagoing security position, and then some more.
I have been in MARSEC for some +14 yrs now, and still going strong.
I have mil background with a military unit that is considered SF in many countries.
I have PMC experience from Iraq.
How is it that so few companies are getting back with me?
Well, first, you can't sell me any courses, as I have them all already.
You can't offer me a job with crappy pay, and suggest that I need to work my way up and " Pay my dues " as I would laugh at your face.
I would also see through all of the false claims of the company, if they would not be a bona fide player in the MARSEC field.
I have also find out how FEW companies are ACTUALLY CONDUCTING any real anti-piracy operations in GOA. You would be amazed on the amount of false claims by companies.
Well, do you consider this doing anti-piracy in GOA - Company X held a briefing at their office at Houston for the Officer's of M/S Crap regarding the piracy threat in GOA?
Now they are conducting anti-piracy Ops in GOA according to their website.
Now they are " World leader in training " in anti-piracy.
Now they are " Premium Maritime Security Company " ( few years back nobody knew anything about them ).
How about claims in counter-piracy?
Only a military force would be conducting such. NOT A SINGLE private company has been contracted to conduct one.
There is so much BS around the MARSEC industry now, that it will take much to separate the fakes from the real thing.
Fact remains, there are very, very little jobs around the anti-piracy industry.
The future will not change that, the change would have come already if it was to come.
IMO has clearly stated that they are against armed security.
This is something that shipping companies will listen to.
Unarmed security? It is cheaper to get the crew trained in anti-piracy unarmed methods than keeping a contracted team onboard.
Insurance prices going up?
Well, companies will put that on the product and we the consumers will pay it, simple as that.
If you are not already in MARSEC ( and have the right background and experience ), I would not put one cent in any course.
It is like getting a driver's license at the age of 60 just because you want to get to F1 and it is a requirement there!
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Marsec.............
Kurt
As ever you make a valuable contribution to the site but you have fallen into the trap..............
Anyone reading this thread (and many other threads) would think that MARSEC stood for ANTI PIRACY OPERATIONS IN THE GULF OF ADEN, INDIAN OCEAN AND SOMALI BASIN. OK this thread relates to the GoA but MARSEC covers the whole spectrum of maritime security provision and this forum is called the MARITIME SECURITY FORUM.
IMSA and a fair few other long standing marsec companies earned their crust well before this latest spate of anti piracy provision in the GoA. This crust was/is earned delivering ISPS code related services from training to RSO work and general marsec consultancy in the likes of Nigeria, the NAG, on ships and everywhere else in between (inc the GoA)
Anti piracy will come and go in its current form but MARSEC provision across the whole range of services will endure in this ever more dangerous world.
Keep the posts coming , I believe in the power of this forum to educate and enlighten and the more experience and real time info imparted, the better we are all for it.
John
Kurt
As ever you make a valuable contribution to the site but you have fallen into the trap..............
Anyone reading this thread (and many other threads) would think that MARSEC stood for ANTI PIRACY OPERATIONS IN THE GULF OF ADEN, INDIAN OCEAN AND SOMALI BASIN. OK this thread relates to the GoA but MARSEC covers the whole spectrum of maritime security provision and this forum is called the MARITIME SECURITY FORUM.
IMSA and a fair few other long standing marsec companies earned their crust well before this latest spate of anti piracy provision in the GoA. This crust was/is earned delivering ISPS code related services from training to RSO work and general marsec consultancy in the likes of Nigeria, the NAG, on ships and everywhere else in between (inc the GoA)
Anti piracy will come and go in its current form but MARSEC provision across the whole range of services will endure in this ever more dangerous world.
Keep the posts coming , I believe in the power of this forum to educate and enlighten and the more experience and real time info imparted, the better we are all for it.
John
John, I agree with you.
No man, I have not fallen into that trap.
I have stated numerous times that GOA is one tiny part of the MARSEC picture.
We have:
- Cruise Ships
- Ferries
- Pax Ferries
- Casino Ships
- Tankers
- Cargo
etc.etc
There are plenty of security positions on most of them.
As you know, then the STCW-95, SSO etc. will come into play
Those positions are not going to any contracted security personel as in most places it is a requirement that you are part of the crew, under the crew manifest.
This is one reason why you will never see Securitas, g4S, SOC, EODT, Aegis, etc. etc. security people running security on a Cruise Ship.
They ( PSC ) would have taken over this function long time ago if possible.
No man, I have not fallen into that trap.
I have stated numerous times that GOA is one tiny part of the MARSEC picture.
We have:
- Cruise Ships
- Ferries
- Pax Ferries
- Casino Ships
- Tankers
- Cargo
etc.etc
There are plenty of security positions on most of them.
As you know, then the STCW-95, SSO etc. will come into play
Those positions are not going to any contracted security personel as in most places it is a requirement that you are part of the crew, under the crew manifest.
This is one reason why you will never see Securitas, g4S, SOC, EODT, Aegis, etc. etc. security people running security on a Cruise Ship.
They ( PSC ) would have taken over this function long time ago if possible.
farangbootneck
Longterm Registered User
I know one of those companies you've mentioned have contracted security personnel on a couple of cargo ships, on an open contract. The guy's have been aboard for well over a year now.
Well, Kurt. I know for sure that bouth Securitas and G4S has personell on board some cruiseships in the verry dangerous Scandinavian waters.
They have SSO and IMO 60, but are payed shit and, well, mostly deals with shoplifters from the boats kiosks and cafetrias and some times have to deal with drunk passangers. Mabye not the kind of job I am looking for, but you and Imsaltd are right. This is also safety at sea and they will probably do a great job if an accident happends.
They have SSO and IMO 60, but are payed shit and, well, mostly deals with shoplifters from the boats kiosks and cafetrias and some times have to deal with drunk passangers. Mabye not the kind of job I am looking for, but you and Imsaltd are right. This is also safety at sea and they will probably do a great job if an accident happends. Well, Kurt. I know for sure that bouth Securitas and G4S has personell on board some cruiseships in the verry dangerous Scandinavian waters.
Those you are referring to are onboard for a very short limited time and they work under the regular security personnel of the ship.
This is still grey area.
What I am referring to is, we the regular security personnel of the ship don't have to worry that they ( securitas, G4S ) will take over our positions in a permanent manner. We can not be canned, and Securitas would get the contract to replace us. This would have happened a long time ago if possible.
I would say our pay ( Ship's own security personnel ) is not that bad.
I made about 35 000 Euro last year, working the average one week on - one week off. Making it the pay for 6 months.
Giving me plenty of time to do some CPO work at the side when I feel so.
Then if you are referring to what the Securitas guys will get while on an occasional gig, well they get what their company is paying them, between 9.00 - 10. 00 Euro/hr.
Hope this will clarify a bit.
KURT