European Security Academy - weapons manipulation courses

Is it ??? I have no comparison, I didn't train with them or either ESA :)

Indeed ESA is teaching the 'Israeli Style' as commonly referred or rather market the 'Front Stance'.
Everything look similar but I am just interested how look like the mag change in ESA, are they braking the grip or
they using the other way without braking grip, where whole manipulation is done by left hand.

I hope to meet college who attended their course, so hope to comeback with more info at the end of week.
 
AAAhhhh someone get the answer to question from where word 'manipulation' come up

Simply differences in languages, Brits called this 'drills' whereas other speakers of other languages call this 'manipulation'
 
mtt.world said:
AAAhhhh someone get the answer to question from where word 'manipulation' come up

Simply differences in languages, Brits called this 'drills' whereas other speakers of other languages call this 'manipulation'
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Not only the Brits. Anyone who speaks English, which is half the world. English being the de facto international language and the native language of most potential students, it would be a good idea to get it right.
 
Well guys, I use the term 'manipulate' during weapons handling drills. Basically to describe moving the weapon about, within your workspace to facilitate easier handling of the firearm; e.g turning the rifle to see the position of the bolt or cocking lever/handle, then turning it again in order to 'tap' the mag and 'rack' out the duff round. Same goes with pistols, 'manipulate' the weapon! That's all though, we don't run 'Weapon Manipulation Courses' it's still 'Firearms Training'!

Frenchbob
 
SCT, I don’t want to sound like smart ass or try to be cheeky, or even sound like expert either in English language or anything else :D

Yes, you right, English is the most popular language as a second language, but third as a native, so out of 1835 millions people who claim to speak English just 335 millions are native. So my friend, out of 1500 millions (yes, one thousand five hundreds millions) of people who able to speak in English at any level you will definitely get some mistakes, different mean’s, and they will understand something in different way despite the fact they learn English to the best or highest level (if) – because of they background, where they grow up or etcetera etcetera.

I am not trying to defend ESA for they mistake. I can even see what really could happened, that translator could do this mistake, due to fact he was just translating text ……. and never been at shooting range !!!! or interested in guns.
Manipulations what was in mean of some one - is just manipulation for him.

What I try to pointed, different speakers of English as a second language coming from different backgrounds, one word can mean something similar but not necessary same as to you, my fault ☺. But I think you should be more flexible too, you did understand what I or other mean, you just would like to every one around use the exactly wording as you do.

On the other hand, I can understand how easy it is to upset us, if we can't understand other speaker, yes, even I am foreigner, even I am living in UK for last 8 years and English is not my first language (fourth), I am quite often pissed off by someone who I have difficulty to understand, yes, what can I do ;) hehe deep breath 1 to 10

Hey, I devote 8 years to learn English (yes, I know I am slow couch:D ) to this level and I am still learning, and I am looking for another 8 if not 10 years. What can I do, I can’t afford privet school, I have to do it the hard way ehehhehehe. The best way, as I don’t have to think in other language – I just speak. Hey, we are not on Language forum, let focus on much more important things.

Frenchbob – exactly ☺
 
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Frenchbob has put it the best way of how it come about being used, but I still fail to see the need to use it as a term with firearms? Certainly within a heading of a firearms course?

Whatever floats your boat, fancy names for fancy courses perhaps, I know what course I would stay away from.

Cheers, bren
 
I did my CP course with Ronin Concepts last year, and we spent a week at ESA in Poland. The facilities were excellent I found; great location with superb accomodation, food etc, and the ranges were adequate for the drills we were doing.... However, the resident instructor had obviously had zero military experience, and to be honest seemed like a bit of a "gun nut!"
Fortunately we had Ronins instructors teaching our drills etc, and as you can imagine, they were superb.... Fantastic facilities at ESA, but I wouldn't do a course with their instructors..... The one we had tagging along with us had seen too many Bruce Willis films....

B.....
 
Bash said:
.... However, the resident instructor had obviously had zero military experience, and to be honest seemed like a bit of a "gun nut!"
.... Fantastic facilities at ESA, but I wouldn't do a course with their instructors..... The one we had tagging along with us had seen too many Bruce Willis films....
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Sounds about right, some guys in Poland have same view. But apparently they have some ex mil guys, one ex GROM, not sure for that.

Bash, is this nutter was the guy who claim to be quickest shooter in Europe :D
 
mtt.world - yeah that's the guy! He was unbelievable. We just laughed at first, but he got so bad, with his bollocks, that he was just realy embarrassing in the end... Frget his name though...

B
 
HAHAha I wish I could seen that but ain’t gonna pay for that kind of show :D,

I think his name is Tomasz (Thomas) and he use ‘Rapid’ as a his nickname, isn’t it . He is quick though, but the whole crap they coming with is horrendous, it seems to me that they at ESA think that fighting, shooting, and being tough (most important with sunglasses) are the most important attributes of our profession, at least seems to me after I watched few videos on youtube.

Bad for polish training providers, I mean firearms and security, there are some good ones there I know off, it’s apparent that ESA is much better in regard to marketing and appearing on different TV channels. Live goes on.
 
Dear all,

My name is Tom ( not Thomas ) and yes I am from E.S.A.
I want to replay on few things that people told me about this topic, what they were reading here in the forum about us.
Normally we don't go on forums but in this case I want to replay.

1) I read a story from a guy that know some guy's that they were working on CP detail for ESA and did not get pay'd what was agreed.
well ; First of all, ESA is not dealing with CP details, It's Delta Security who deals with this. Everybody who is offered any detail to work will recieve a contract in advanced where all legal things are set, including the payment.
At the end of the detail will each person get pay'd what it was written. Delta Security had in all his years never broke a word or changed any agreements. Delta Security is in FORBES magazine as nr 7 listed fast growing security company. You will not get there is you are not a correct company. If those persons who claim that above case was different, the can always contact us direct , because this is the first thing we here about !!

2) QUOTE ; "Also I had the pleasure (no, wasn't pleasant) to deal with ESA representative for UK a few years ago, guy name Mariusz Muzgiel. I have to say if someone decides to have above individual as his representative, game lost, idiot."

Well; This person was never a representative for us. Our representative in the UK was Peter. So who ever you have met, you spoke to the wrong person. As I can read and hear a lot, many persons are working for ESA but I never saw or met those guy's ??? If you look to our website, there you will find our official representatives. The one and only.

3) QUOTE; " However, the resident instructor had obviously had zero military experience, and to be honest seemed like a bit of a "gun nut!"
Fortunately we had Ronins instructors teaching our drills etc, and as you can imagine, they were superb.... Fantastic facilities at ESA, but I wouldn't do a course with their instructors..... The one we had tagging along with us had seen too many Bruce Willis films....

First of all, the people from Ronin never have any work with ESA instructors, they only have a observer with their group and Ronin instructors with them,The reason any ESA staff is joining those group is to transport the weapons and ammo and too secure the shooting and ranch. You will never had any training with our ESA instructors during those courses, not possible.

second, about Military experience ; ESA is a one UNIQUE organisation in the world use ex - soldier both from Russian special forces and from european unit like SAS or GSG9, all depends on profile of the course - so it is not true!!!
Army / police background has nothing to do with CP(unless specialised unit member inside army) and also being an ex police and army doesn't mean to be a good CP agent or sharp shooter and weapon expert... especially handgun.
We have the right instructors for any kind of course.


By all this I just want to tell that it is easy to give comments about what you are hearing from others or telling not correct or full story's. Opinion about ESA can be given only by a one who was a student ...the rest is based on rumors...
The best prove of ESA quality is a fact that ESA is training many gouvermental units and ESA has one of the biggest numbers of students trained every year! This is not coming from delivering wrong or bad training, but from working hard with different types of instructors depending the demand of the course and work on high professional level, with ear to the students and learning from them also to provide every year improvements in the ESA training center. We are not saying that we are the best, we only work hard and all ESA team is giving the best of their self to give the maximum knowledge and experience to the student. And 80% of each course are practical training !!!!
We are always ready to take any comment, but when it's based on facts and not on rumors. We can be reach 24/24 by phone or mail to discuss any matter you dealing with.
If you want to replay or discuss above please mail me at tom@eusea.com

Best regards and remember ; You are as good, as your last training session was !!!
 
Tomasz

Thanks for your input

To your point 1.
If you read carefully - "Two of my colleges (ex-legionnaires) work for owner of ESA on CP detail.... " so as you can see there is nowhere anything about working for ESA directly, as far I know your father is owner (founder) of ESA as also owner of Delta Security, isn't it.

I've got no reason to disbelieve them, I do trust them, this is story from first hand, and I am not going any deeper in to this.

Delta Security is not number 7 or at 7th whatsoever , get your facts correct, even poster on website is stating that company have received Diamond award,

AND

as far as I can read - that was in 2010 - in the category of 'small companies', among companies in Dolnoslaskie COUNTY. Isn't it. So Delta Security is not number 7 especially in 2012 or 13 or any ranking.

Link to Polish text
Diamenty Forbesa

Right, let's go to your point 2

I meet this guy around Jan/Feb 2009, he turn up out of sky at meeting I organised for Polish CPO's in London, and straight away start with his bullshit, mention name of your father, ESA etc. He manage to obtain contacts of people and in next few weeks announced his OWN GRATE BIG meeting. So I went there (with 3 friends) to have a laugh as I expect more bullshit. Any way I did not check him any further (e.g.calling ESA) as we cross examine him with our questions having excellent fun out of his 'wannabe' pretender stupidity, also he handed over ESA flayers with training offer .... :cool::rolleyes::p;)

I am taking on board what you said above, and I think guys here appreciate your stand and correction of facts, I will even suggest to put this on your website or make topic on this forum that this guy pretend to be ESA representative
so let's have a look at him

Right, this is link to article about him, (Polish text, I won't translate :D cose bullshit) but most important is - his photo, so have a closer look at him.
http://http://polishexpress.polacy.co.uk/art,mariusz_na_strazy_wembley,3973.html

then if you could have a look on your own pdf document (press article) from ESA official website which can be found either
http://www.euseca.com/sites/default/files/pressroom_files/Focus.pdf
Focus | European Security Academy Close protection courses, private military contractor, bodyguard courses, bodyguard training courses. See you in E.S.A.
Is this guy circled within O letter is not him, looks like ??? - zoom in and compere.

I know is not substantial, you can't recognise him clearly, isn't it, but watch your own youtube video, check following precisely 0:52 / precisely 3:49 / and 4:54


[video=youtube;itcVrXj_lE4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itcVrXj_lE4 [/video]

That's him, clearly, I know I know that's mean nothing, I am pretty sure what happened, guy was trying to get cut on any head he brought for training or maybe get some discount for his course. Those things happens, wannabes attend course and then try to pretend to be representative of some organisation.

I know I am pushing a little bit to far, but something bother me with that, I did remember that his meeting took place at begging of the year or so and few months latter I saw pictures with him on ESA website, did I mention to you that he handed over leaflets, I checked on my Mac and I found something, after hour of digging , scans of ESA leaflet - there you go

View attachment 5663

There is no doubt about, is it. So do remember that the guy name is Mariusz Mozgiel, and have a look at the bottom of this one. Your local ESA representative: Mariusz Mozgiel !!!!

View attachment 5664

So, I don't know what to say, he manage somehow to get leaflets, probably filled with his name and start pretending to be ESA representative, sure. And that's happened before he attend your course. So by my advice would be nice if you correct this, put announcement/statement about his case, on website or maybe some official letter.

I don't want to comment point 3. Is just to late.

Look, we entailed to have opinion, does not matter if I attended one of your courses or not. I am passing opinion which I gain from first hand, that's not rumour - that's opinion. If I heard something from the guy who heard something from someone who heard another one opinion from one who know the cousin of chap who been on your course - that's the rumour.

Is late, I promise to come back to above point and few others, hope soon

Until then - regards
 
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Good Morning everyone or rather afternoon

Lets start with second paragraph of point 3

There is nothing unique about this model, similar models have been used for years, only unique is that you incorporating ex russian soldiers but that's proof nothing.

We could debate about Mill/Police background having nothing to do with CP - I do agree and disagree with that

Quote"and also being an ex police and army doesn't mean to be a good CP agent or sharp shooter and weapon expert... especially handgun."

Seems to me that in ESA opinion the most important skill to posses in our profession is shooting, wherever I look on your promotional materials is about shooting, jumping when shooting, shooting, again shooting and guns guns guns,fighting and then rest of skills, look no further then to your press bookmark on your website or any video on youtube. In one of the videos you even express opinion that handgun is the most important attribute of CPO.

Mate - the most important is grey mass between your ears, common sense, communications skills and then training with tone of experience, I am passionate about guns and marksmanship but thats fall DOWN the list of skills required in this job, at least for me and in my opinion to which I'm entailed, isn't it. I agree with you, not everyone out of military is expert in handgun, because most of their time they have to safely carry their rifle and safely operate it. This is deep topic and we could debate about HECPO training, etc, etc,

But/And in my opinion ESA is putting to much effort to formulate this flashy BG and 007 live style image with guns on civil market, like "do course with ESA your live will change, 007 action awaiting for you, you will run everywhere flashing your gun, action and tones of actions - just do course with us". That opinion is coming from general overview of your social media activity, but I have to admit I do admire it, you have good connections, and I am pretty sure someone very skilled sit in your marketing department. On the other hand - there you go, you have bystander opinion, sometimes you have to suck up - dose not matter how bad it is. I just hope you going to improve it, I am pretty sure you will.

I know and I can see you are very sharp shooter, thought extremely fast, I am not as good as you either fast like you, but I notice some mistakes in some promotional videos. You doing double tap then double tap and coming with your gun to standby stance, half stance or whatsoever you call it, then we can see clearly that slide is lock in rear position meaning you have no ammo but you start scanning for danger,left right, you can see this drill from 4:45 at below video

[video=youtube;H6nRQkA48cY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nRQkA48cY[/video]

I know ammo is not cheap, I did similar drills but I can't understand something, because in my opinion, (not expert), you incorporating bad habits to your muscle memory. Myself wherever slide lock in rear position (or do not fully close or chamber the round) I'm 'manipulate' my handgun to the right side, rising it 45 degree up or so, to check chamber if there is malfunction or if I'm out of ammo,let say like you I am out of ammo - then another process - put fresh mag in (e.g. with 4 rounds), release slide to chamber round and then if so scan for danger. Danger present itself = double tap, double tap, and same process again until I finish exercise. Check, mag out to holster, release slide, test shoot. Cool.

Lest speculate - in your drill you bring your empty gun to chest, with slide locked in rear, then you scan for danger, let say you look left then right - oohh danger, then what - either you going point on target your empty gun - ****, identify empty, implement decision process, change the mag, start engaging target. Or either - is stressful situation, would be difficult to remember that you holding empty gun and in such remember to change mag when you have to engage new threat. You know is my common sense. Sense which telling me we should not incorporate any bad process/habit to our muscle memory. I could be wrong, I would like to be corrected if so.

Look, I am not trying to discredit ate ESA or either you, I am just simply guy who know just about, believe me I heard much more but if I don't know or I am not sure I keep my mouth shut, taking everything on board, challenging with my common sense and then learning from it. You guys have many advantages, great facilities, good establish position. And as you mention in last paragraph you do and you willing work hard to improve. So I think you need to start with few things, especially with Mariusz Mozgiel, and do not percept this as a lessons, I just express my OPINIONS. Honest - I don't care if you take this on board or not.

Regards and stay safe.
 
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Brave act dificult see this days Tom from ESA.
You present your self and defend your position.
Carfull talk about Ronin if is the movie that motorcade is bad in a 4 cars motorcade who put the vip car in position 2?
The Kingdon movie is the same in Riad arrivel and depart.
If is about training particular the PSD both have the same drills evrybody arround the principal mission 1 catch the bullet, reaction to hostile contact again same drills no big sience on this particular if want militar direct action special units or close protection units back ground in private training world to make more Money evrybody copy evrybody in almost drills.
Of course have some details can be learned if the trainers are good have real operational experience but that is other topic.
Im my oppinion security is not a exact sience cp for sure not but in training deal many try make it.
Guys calm a bit Friday ends Saturday start Sunday is tomorow 3 hollydays in a row for must of us we are famaly cusins true but famaly.
 
Dear users

Person mentioned above do not represent the academy.
The Academy is an organization that educate & train and not enter into a polemic - especially with people who have never been on our training.
Again ,the proof of our quality is continuous development, increasing number of students year after year, trust of our partner companies also from UK and most of all - government contracts.
Any questions regarding training in the acadmy can be directed directly on my email : tom@euseca.com

Regards

Tom Van Watermeulen

ESA main representative
 
This guy Mario( Mariusz Mozgiel) actually made a meet for those interested in firearms training back in the days.
From what I remember from my friend feedback, who was there - he was a professional and convincing.
The meeting was short and straight to the point. no bullshit stories
Apparently somebody here got way too bothered that some people do things and do them right way and some just not.

cheers
 
As i stated in some other posts i've done a course or two with the ESA along with a bunch of my colleagues. I have a military background and i serve as a sergeant in special police units. i was pretty pleased with my course quality. i work some things differently regarding weapon safety (always shell in chamber) but all the rest were up to our expectations.
Besides that, i dont think you can find anywhere in europe avalaible such a vast array of firearms(ak47,m4,m16,uzi,mp5,shotguns etc) and a variety of training scenarios that includes busses cars killhouses ships even a plane. i have only done such courses with my unit and in a very limited way so as not to damage the props.
excuse me if i have some errors in my above text but english is not my primary language and i guess we are not here to discuss grammar issues. :p
Best regards!
LadyCP said:
This guy Mario( Mariusz Mozgiel) actually made a meet for those interested in firearms training back in the days.
From what I remember from my friend feedback, who was there - he was a professional and convincing.
The meeting was short and straight to the point. no bullshit stories
Apparently somebody here got way too bothered that some people do things and do them right way and some just not.

cheers
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