"It's a civic matter"
- Thread starter MikeDerby
- Start date
He did say a "large knife" in the original post, but you are correct about the 3inch rule although the Police will question you for reasons on carrying it.
I think Mike needs to come back to clarify a few points.
Surely nobody is stupid enough to think they are metal detectors, he will be leaving his house keys, belt, money etc with the knife next!
I think Mike needs to come back to clarify a few points.
Surely nobody is stupid enough to think they are metal detectors, he will be leaving his house keys, belt, money etc with the knife next!
SCT
Security Directors
Illegal to carry a knife, yet no way to defend yourself from a bad guy who IS carrying a knife because HE doesn't give a shit about the law.
Every time I read things like this, I remember why I don't want to live in the UK..... actually make that Europe, no wait, make that I don't want to live anywhere except except the United States, ..... no, hang on....... change that to anywhere except Florida
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celticsteph
Full Registered User
If you can see him hide the knife before entering the store im assuming you have some external CCTV? I would suggest next time you see him do so, call 999 and report a man carrying a knife.
When the cops turn up, tell them you just seen a man stash a large knife in a bush and suggest they wait until he leaves to pull him.
Alternatively, play the nice guy. Approach him instore and tell him its none of your business but youve seen him stash the knife numerous times and last time you seen the police retrieve it and that the police are keeping an eye on the area. Chances are he wont come back, which is your goal. And now he also thinks youre a decent bloke. Win win.
When the cops turn up, tell them you just seen a man stash a large knife in a bush and suggest they wait until he leaves to pull him.
Alternatively, play the nice guy. Approach him instore and tell him its none of your business but youve seen him stash the knife numerous times and last time you seen the police retrieve it and that the police are keeping an eye on the area. Chances are he wont come back, which is your goal. And now he also thinks youre a decent bloke. Win win.
Not to start an argument but....why paint him with such a large brush? Many people find themselves victims of crime and lots of times it's the same suspect stalking, harrassing, threatening and/or attacking the same victim over and over again because they aren't afraid of the police or the law wont protect the victim. How would carrying a knife to protect yourself because the police can't be evidence the man is up to no good (except for violating the law)? I will concede however that stashing the knife and leaving it does seem very odd, especially if its happened three times.
Had another Brit here (not SCT) for awhile and took him to the local ACE hardware store. At the checkout counter there was a knife display. He asked if he could buy one and I told him "sure!". He was like a kid in a candy store and even after I told him it was OK to have the knife he walked around for weeks paranoid that the police would take him to jail. I can't imagine that feeling of excitement, and fear over something so mundane as a knife. Now, if they allowed me to buy full auto weapons over the counter I'd probably know the feeling.
Hi, thanks for all of the replies, wasn't expecting 3 pages worth!
The person is a well known local gang member and he obviously carries the knife on him for his own personal protection. The store is located in a run down area with lots of crime and no other businesses near by, so no town link radio, CCTV or any form of back up, but we have a good team in store and decent police support (most of the time).
The first knife was found by a car park cleaner, we reviewed the CCTV and that's when we saw him place it there. You can see it very clearly and the footage is enough to clearly ID him, his face, the name brands on his clothes, etc are all very visible. He places it in the bush before entering the store to make a purchase, but then doesn't retrieve it after he has left the store, he either forgot about it or he was going to do it later on.
I have spoken to him twice and he was very confrontational both times, luckily he knows that i kind of understand why he carries it so he can speak to me on a level, everybody else who has approached him have been seconds away from him attacking them, he has a few mental issues as well. Looking at the CCTV from these previous incidents where a store manager and other security have spoken to him, his hand has always been on his waist section from the second that he is approached, so he's still carrying another one on him when he's in store.
He says the knives are not a threat to me or anyone in the store as he carries it when he's in the area. I explained that he is still carrying them and then leaving these knives on the stores property, which is what we have an issue with. Leave them somewhere else and come into the store as far as we're concerned, as long as it's not on our property, it's not really that much of a problem. (Some of you may not agree with this but that's what i think would be the best solution). Plus he has never shoplifted or caused any issues in the store.
Immediately after this conversation with him, he left the store and pulled out another large "combat" style knife (about 7-8 inches blade length) from his waist, wiped his prints off it with a cloth or tissue and put it in another bush. I'm guessing he didn't want to risk carrying it in case i had just called the Police after our conversation in store and they were on there way to the store. So he was basically stood speaking to me with a 8" knife in the waistline of his trousers.
He returned again the next day and i pulled him to the side to have a word, as i had just spoken to him the day before about the first knife and he said he wouldn't do it again, etc, but then went straight out of the store and did the exact same thing again.
I told him that the police were now involved and both knives have been taken away by them, and they will also be coming for the CCTV shortly, so the best thing that you can do is not come back into the store and stop leaving them on our property. He said you can't ban me from the store, the knives are clean anyway, i will be back every day, etc.
I left it at that and the police were contacted. They were already aware of the first 2 knives and i asked what i should do if he returns to the store again, after i have just verbally banned him from the store, the reply was basically that it's now a civil matter and they can't really do anything unless he has a knife in his possession at the time.
So i can wait for him to come back and call the police, but i am looking at the best solution for the store, if he gets arrested in store the next time he's in, he will know we have called them and he probably won't even get charged. Which will make the entire situation a lot worse. So in the long run, it will cause a lot more issues for us, he's not the only person carrying weapons in the area, he's part of a group of around 10 from the local area, but most of them have been banned for thefts in the past and only occasionally try and come back in, but are spotted straight away and escorted out, this lad is one of those that won't just make empty threats, i can seriously see him sticking a knife in somebody.
I have also spoken to all of the store managers and they are with me, they want what is best for the store, i explained that he is normally a good kid, he has never caused any issues in the store itself and he's carrying them for protection (not justifying it but it's the reality), but banning him now will result him coming back every single night, us having to remove him from the store putting ourselves at serious risky, police having to be called out on a regular and the potential for somebody to get seriously hurt or killed.
The person is a well known local gang member and he obviously carries the knife on him for his own personal protection. The store is located in a run down area with lots of crime and no other businesses near by, so no town link radio, CCTV or any form of back up, but we have a good team in store and decent police support (most of the time).
The first knife was found by a car park cleaner, we reviewed the CCTV and that's when we saw him place it there. You can see it very clearly and the footage is enough to clearly ID him, his face, the name brands on his clothes, etc are all very visible. He places it in the bush before entering the store to make a purchase, but then doesn't retrieve it after he has left the store, he either forgot about it or he was going to do it later on.
I have spoken to him twice and he was very confrontational both times, luckily he knows that i kind of understand why he carries it so he can speak to me on a level, everybody else who has approached him have been seconds away from him attacking them, he has a few mental issues as well. Looking at the CCTV from these previous incidents where a store manager and other security have spoken to him, his hand has always been on his waist section from the second that he is approached, so he's still carrying another one on him when he's in store.
He says the knives are not a threat to me or anyone in the store as he carries it when he's in the area. I explained that he is still carrying them and then leaving these knives on the stores property, which is what we have an issue with. Leave them somewhere else and come into the store as far as we're concerned, as long as it's not on our property, it's not really that much of a problem. (Some of you may not agree with this but that's what i think would be the best solution). Plus he has never shoplifted or caused any issues in the store.
Immediately after this conversation with him, he left the store and pulled out another large "combat" style knife (about 7-8 inches blade length) from his waist, wiped his prints off it with a cloth or tissue and put it in another bush. I'm guessing he didn't want to risk carrying it in case i had just called the Police after our conversation in store and they were on there way to the store. So he was basically stood speaking to me with a 8" knife in the waistline of his trousers.
He returned again the next day and i pulled him to the side to have a word, as i had just spoken to him the day before about the first knife and he said he wouldn't do it again, etc, but then went straight out of the store and did the exact same thing again.
I told him that the police were now involved and both knives have been taken away by them, and they will also be coming for the CCTV shortly, so the best thing that you can do is not come back into the store and stop leaving them on our property. He said you can't ban me from the store, the knives are clean anyway, i will be back every day, etc.
I left it at that and the police were contacted. They were already aware of the first 2 knives and i asked what i should do if he returns to the store again, after i have just verbally banned him from the store, the reply was basically that it's now a civil matter and they can't really do anything unless he has a knife in his possession at the time.
So i can wait for him to come back and call the police, but i am looking at the best solution for the store, if he gets arrested in store the next time he's in, he will know we have called them and he probably won't even get charged. Which will make the entire situation a lot worse. So in the long run, it will cause a lot more issues for us, he's not the only person carrying weapons in the area, he's part of a group of around 10 from the local area, but most of them have been banned for thefts in the past and only occasionally try and come back in, but are spotted straight away and escorted out, this lad is one of those that won't just make empty threats, i can seriously see him sticking a knife in somebody.
I have also spoken to all of the store managers and they are with me, they want what is best for the store, i explained that he is normally a good kid, he has never caused any issues in the store itself and he's carrying them for protection (not justifying it but it's the reality), but banning him now will result him coming back every single night, us having to remove him from the store putting ourselves at serious risky, police having to be called out on a regular and the potential for somebody to get seriously hurt or killed.
We have already had previous incidents with knives, stun guns, needles and even actual guns. We have had no issues in dealing with incidents like this in the past but this is a little different as he really means no harm to us but at the same time, a knife is a knife and he has been carrying them in store.
Yes, we can physically remove him from the store every time he comes in or keep calling the police to come out, but would you do this on a regular basis with somebody who is potentially carrying a knife?? what about the one day the entire group turn up to the store??
We remove on average 4-5 previously banned individuals from the store, that isn't an issue here. We just don't want to take the risk with this guy as i can see what he's like. He speaks to me fine, i actually seem to be the only one that is able to actually speak to him, but as soon as i mention banning him or asking him to leave, he will see red. Is it worth taking that risk??
Yes, we can physically remove him from the store every time he comes in or keep calling the police to come out, but would you do this on a regular basis with somebody who is potentially carrying a knife?? what about the one day the entire group turn up to the store??
We remove on average 4-5 previously banned individuals from the store, that isn't an issue here. We just don't want to take the risk with this guy as i can see what he's like. He speaks to me fine, i actually seem to be the only one that is able to actually speak to him, but as soon as i mention banning him or asking him to leave, he will see red. Is it worth taking that risk??
littlewoman
Longterm Registered User
The police are right that you banning him and preventing him from entry in only a civil matter. However, seems they should be much more pro-active in dealing with him outside the shop. Is it worth the shop talking to someone more senior in the police and pointing out that this person has a track record of carrying a knife, you have evidence on CCTV of him carrying a knife and so its only a matter of time before he uses it on someone. If that happens then it is going to look very bad that they haven't acted sooner. They should be able to target him for stop and search based on the evidence you have. Would he stop carrying if he was getting searched more regularly? Sometime it can be worth approaching local politicians to put pressure on the police but that depends very much on the individual politicians.
There are cases where people have got ASBO's banning them from all shops or certain shops in an area but that only happens when they have a long track record of shoplifting.
As for banning him, its really up to yourself and the shop how to handle it. If he is always well behaved in the shop and he is not acting the bully and intimidating people, then there may be grounds for not banning him. Some people might see that as a cop out, on the other hand if he gets the idea that if he behaves he'll be treated like a normal person, but if he misbehaves he'll be banned, that might keep from from turning worse than he actually is and he may ensure some of his mates don't give you any problems either. I think this is something can't be judged over the internet because we haven't seen exactly how he is behaving. Also you said he was in a gang, but that can have quite a wide definition. There's gangs that are just a group of mates that all hang around together for protection and cause some minor problems and get involved in petty crime. Then there's gangs that are very much about taking over the area and intimidating everyone into doing what they want. If its the latter, I'd be more inclined to ban him, in theory, in practice that may be difficult unless the police are going to take action against the whole gang in some way.
There are cases where people have got ASBO's banning them from all shops or certain shops in an area but that only happens when they have a long track record of shoplifting.
As for banning him, its really up to yourself and the shop how to handle it. If he is always well behaved in the shop and he is not acting the bully and intimidating people, then there may be grounds for not banning him. Some people might see that as a cop out, on the other hand if he gets the idea that if he behaves he'll be treated like a normal person, but if he misbehaves he'll be banned, that might keep from from turning worse than he actually is and he may ensure some of his mates don't give you any problems either. I think this is something can't be judged over the internet because we haven't seen exactly how he is behaving. Also you said he was in a gang, but that can have quite a wide definition. There's gangs that are just a group of mates that all hang around together for protection and cause some minor problems and get involved in petty crime. Then there's gangs that are very much about taking over the area and intimidating everyone into doing what they want. If its the latter, I'd be more inclined to ban him, in theory, in practice that may be difficult unless the police are going to take action against the whole gang in some way.
Thanks Mike for the update, can not fault the way the situation has been dealt with by yourself. With out trying to assume too much I can imagine the daily issues you have to put up with.
I think maybe some lessons can be learnt by others from your experiece.
ESent from my GT-N7105 using Close Protection World mobile app
I think maybe some lessons can be learnt by others from your experiece.
ESent from my GT-N7105 using Close Protection World mobile app
It sure would have been nice to have all of this information before hand! So many responses were made based on speculation with just vague facts! Good god man! Your post #26 should have been your first post !!!
I'm not mad that Sabre was right.....I'm just pissed as to why you wouldn't give all that known information up front. Sure would have saved some people keyboard time.
I'm not mad that Sabre was right
.....I'm just pissed as to why you wouldn't give all that known information up front. Sure would have saved some people keyboard time.
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As you say Howard, just our opinions based on speculation at that time. You had a valid point, I was just planning for the worse case (which it turned out to be I think) and anything less threatening would have been a bonus. Knives are a big problem here amongst the younger generation and the gang culture. They know the `enemy` is carrying so feel the need to also for protection. Just this week a 14yr old was arrested in possession of a knife and a stungun.
I honestly wasn't expecting so many people to reply in the thread so quickly so kept it very basic, as this section of the forum can go for weeks without many posts.
Our security manager, who has been on holiday will be back on Monday. All of the CCTV from all the incidents will be handed to him, I think he will try and push for an ASBO or restraining order. We have used a restraining order once in the past and the Police actually visited us multiple times just over a sighting of the person in the area, so at least it's taken a little more seriously.
Our security manager, who has been on holiday will be back on Monday. All of the CCTV from all the incidents will be handed to him, I think he will try and push for an ASBO or restraining order. We have used a restraining order once in the past and the Police actually visited us multiple times just over a sighting of the person in the area, so at least it's taken a little more seriously.
LakeEffectKid
Full Registered User
Mike,
Based on what you have said, the fact he was touching his belt when others spoke to him, and had an 8" Knife in his waistband when you spoke to him, is a massive alarm bell.
Whether or not you end up banning him is one issue (I appreciate that it is the one that you want resolved). However, as you have rightly said, trying to remove him from the venue could prove extremely dangerous. If he has a discernible pattern, such as always coming in at 2pm on a Monday, or whatever, consider arranging some backup on that shift with you, so that when you ask him to leave, you are able to restrain him safely if need be.
He would probably only need a second to withdraw the knife from his belt and wield it, which would mean that, unless you are focusing on his hands, you may miss it. Again, looking purely at his hands might set him off. Have someone else standing nearby, preferably one on each side, watching each hand. If he tries anything, they can immediately grab either hand away from him, and disarm him
Think of things you can do. It's been dismissed here already, but look at things in your store that you can legitimately reason as something protective to put between you to make some space. Obviously, it's gonna seem as though you were itching for a confrontation if you build a castle complete with moat in the middle of the store to protect yourself, or if you drag a shelf unit or something over. Things like trolleys, that are always just AROUND, baskets, things like that. If he lunges, yes, you can step back to make some space, but this will give you a little more, potentially taking you out of his arm radius. The bonus is, something like a trolley can then be pushed back into him.
If he does withdraw a knife, you should focus on keeping your distance at all times. DO NOT put yourself in unnecessary danger! If the chance presents itself, attempt to disarm him. You should, however, immediately get on the radio, for Police Backup. Have a codeword ready to say, such as "Salami", so that he doesn't know what you're doing, but those on the other end of the radio do. You may even succeed in confusing him for a second or two.
If you do have backup, and he does produce a knife at you, disarm him as quickly and as safely as possible. Applying some pressure points may help. GENTLY take him to the ground (Don't want to give him an excuse to file a complaint against you for assault!), making sure that the knife is close by, so you can see it at all times, in case someone touches it, but at the same time, far enough out of his reach, so that it does not present a threat. Have one guy holding down his legs, and yourself and another his arms, keeping him secure until the police arrive. You may also want to consider giving him a pat-down while he's on the floor, as you've said he may have multiple knives on him. Remember to try and ensure that you are in an area with a good line of sight to CCTV, and try and have witnesses present.
To potentially get some brownie points with the Police, keep talking to him, explain why he's being held, etc etc, that if he stops resisting/calms down, less pressure will be applied, he'll have more movement, etc. Never let him have too much though!
If he HAS lunged at you, or withdrew the knife, you can quite honestly and reasonably say that he has previously made threats against you/the store, when you saw the knife, you were in fear for your life, etc, and acted in self-defence (If asked by police why he was disarmed & taken to the floor). It's imperative that you wait until he has withdrew the knife for this! If you don't see the knife removed, then neither will witnesses or CCTV! Also, if you take him to the floor while the knife is partially removed from his waistband, there is the risk that the force of taking him to the floor may result in the knife penetrating HIM! You're still responsible for his health and safety, whether you like it or not!
Hope this helps!
Based on what you have said, the fact he was touching his belt when others spoke to him, and had an 8" Knife in his waistband when you spoke to him, is a massive alarm bell.
Whether or not you end up banning him is one issue (I appreciate that it is the one that you want resolved). However, as you have rightly said, trying to remove him from the venue could prove extremely dangerous. If he has a discernible pattern, such as always coming in at 2pm on a Monday, or whatever, consider arranging some backup on that shift with you, so that when you ask him to leave, you are able to restrain him safely if need be.
He would probably only need a second to withdraw the knife from his belt and wield it, which would mean that, unless you are focusing on his hands, you may miss it. Again, looking purely at his hands might set him off. Have someone else standing nearby, preferably one on each side, watching each hand. If he tries anything, they can immediately grab either hand away from him, and disarm him
Think of things you can do. It's been dismissed here already, but look at things in your store that you can legitimately reason as something protective to put between you to make some space. Obviously, it's gonna seem as though you were itching for a confrontation if you build a castle complete with moat in the middle of the store to protect yourself, or if you drag a shelf unit or something over. Things like trolleys, that are always just AROUND, baskets, things like that. If he lunges, yes, you can step back to make some space, but this will give you a little more, potentially taking you out of his arm radius. The bonus is, something like a trolley can then be pushed back into him.
If he does withdraw a knife, you should focus on keeping your distance at all times. DO NOT put yourself in unnecessary danger! If the chance presents itself, attempt to disarm him. You should, however, immediately get on the radio, for Police Backup. Have a codeword ready to say, such as "Salami", so that he doesn't know what you're doing, but those on the other end of the radio do. You may even succeed in confusing him for a second or two.
If you do have backup, and he does produce a knife at you, disarm him as quickly and as safely as possible. Applying some pressure points may help. GENTLY take him to the ground (Don't want to give him an excuse to file a complaint against you for assault!), making sure that the knife is close by, so you can see it at all times, in case someone touches it, but at the same time, far enough out of his reach, so that it does not present a threat. Have one guy holding down his legs, and yourself and another his arms, keeping him secure until the police arrive. You may also want to consider giving him a pat-down while he's on the floor, as you've said he may have multiple knives on him. Remember to try and ensure that you are in an area with a good line of sight to CCTV, and try and have witnesses present.
To potentially get some brownie points with the Police, keep talking to him, explain why he's being held, etc etc, that if he stops resisting/calms down, less pressure will be applied, he'll have more movement, etc. Never let him have too much though!
If he HAS lunged at you, or withdrew the knife, you can quite honestly and reasonably say that he has previously made threats against you/the store, when you saw the knife, you were in fear for your life, etc, and acted in self-defence (If asked by police why he was disarmed & taken to the floor). It's imperative that you wait until he has withdrew the knife for this! If you don't see the knife removed, then neither will witnesses or CCTV! Also, if you take him to the floor while the knife is partially removed from his waistband, there is the risk that the force of taking him to the floor may result in the knife penetrating HIM! You're still responsible for his health and safety, whether you like it or not!
Hope this helps!
Gorillanobaka1977
Longterm Registered User
Wow.. How the heck do you GENTLY take to the ground an armed guy. Don't even try it. You 'll get yourself killed.
Sent from my C6603 using Close Protection World mobile app
Sent from my C6603 using Close Protection World mobile app
Unrealistic. You NEVER have that kind of scenario in a workplace. You especially don't have two other people ready to face a knife.
Good advice.
A man intent on cutting you won't stop if you get our of arm radius. It's a fools gamble.
WTF? Focus on keeping your distance THEN try to disarm him if he gets the chance? Makes no sense.
This is ludicrous.
?????????????????
You gotta be kidding me!
A knife close by is ALWAYS a threat. Screw keeping an eye on it! If there's another baddie then you damn well will know it. If there isn't then the knife is no threat being on the other side of the store laying harmless on the ground.
Look...if the m*****r f*****r comes at you then you either do what you have to do to stay alive or you run like hell. End of! All this pointless, unrealistic what-if scenario crap will get you killed, especially if you're untrained like the OP is. Who the hell comes up with this garbage? I know who, a person sitting in a lounge chair conjuring up BS scenarios whose never been in danger, that's who.
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Gorillanobaka1977
Longterm Registered User
This world is full of retarded dreamers
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Sent from my C6603 using Close Protection World mobile app
LakeEffectKid
Full Registered User
You take them down gently by making sure that you support them on the way down, and ensure they don’t smash their head off the floor, just like taught in the Physical Intervention Training, to stop you being sued and arrested for GBH because they have brain damage
To Howardk, maybe I wasn’t clear on what I said. I shall attempt to answer clearer and respond to your points
My Background is on Doors, not Retail Security, so I’m not an expert here, and i’m used to working in a team
You’re right; they won’t stop trying to slice you, and once they realise that their attack has missed, they will try again. However, if you are outside of their arm radius BEFORE they attack, you don’t have to move back as much to miss their second attack (Just keep outside of their arm radius). In addition, how to you know, if you were standing toe-to-toe with them, that you would be able to get out of their arm radius before they slashed or stabbed you? It’s better to be outside at the onset, and just maintain that distance, than have to react to create distance retrospectively
I agree, I didn’t make this quite clear. You should always keep your distance from them, particularly the knife. However, there may be times when you are able to go on the counter-attack. An example would be if they have the knife in their right hand, and swing the knife, in an arc, from right-to-left in the space between them. Logically, their next move will be to reverse the direction on the next swing (Moving left-to-right). Before they have time to implement that move, you would be able to step forwards into the space between you, and use both hands to push his arm away from you. From there, the knife is reduced as a threat you you, because you are controlling, essentially, what that arm is doing. You can then disarm him
That’s the point. If you say over the radio “This is the front door, we have a guy trying to stab us with a knife, call the police, urgent”, that’s obviously a mouthful to get out! In addition, with the person right in front of you, they now know exactly what’s going on, and probably won’t be too happy.
If you have a previously-agreed upon code, something absolutely nonsensical as “Salami”, that you and anyone else on the frequency would understand, it works to your advantage. You convey an entire sentence and it’s meaning in a single word. In addition, it does have a double-effect on the guy, ESPECIALLY with a non-sensical word like “Salami”, because he’s going to hesitate for a fraction of a second, thinking “What the F*** is he talking about?”, because it’s something that, to him, makes no sense, and would not ordinarily come up in conversation.
Again, this is probably a difference between Door and Retail Security. Everywhere I worked, we’d always use codes on the Door on radios, so we could get some backup without the person realising what we were up to, because we weren’t saying what we wanted. If you say, on a door “This is the front door, we’ve got a guy here off his head on coke trying to come in, send Manager/Another DS”, the guy knows what you’ve just said, and is gonna panic, and probably run. Which isn’t exactly a bad thing, I agree. If you say something else on the radio, they don’t know what you’ve said, but the intended recipient does
Apply pressure to pressure points, and he’ll drop the knife, letting you kick it away, and drop him (One of the posts above mentioned that he had other knives on him) to the ground, so you can check him for further weapons. Again, it’s covering your own arse, because you don’t want him smashing his head off the floor and you getting potentially done for GBH. Support his descent to the ground. Taking him down gently doesn’t mean slowly, just making sure he doesn’t get injured
I’m fully aware that a knife close by is always a threat. However, you should have it comfortably out of his reach, for starters. If you have someone else (Like other security or shop staff), they can help you. You have three things to do simultaneously; Secure the knife (To prevent it being used), Secure the person (So they don’t escape, attack you or draw another weapon), Search the person (A Quick pat-down to ensure that they don’t have another knife on them). Even if another staff member or security has control of the knife, it’s still a good idea to keep an eye on it
Hey, I agree with you! If he tries something, you should react to that! The problem is, the law. Don’t want to do anything that could get the Police focusing on you and risk looking your license!
And it’s not realistic! While yes, I’m sitting in a lounge chair, I’ve had knives pulled on me working doors before. I do admit that Doors and Retail are totally different environments, however, but there are still some things that you can do!
SCT
Security Directors
That's funny. I needed a laugh today.
Good for you... Howie's background is.... more than 20 years as Florida police officer dealing with this kind of crap on a daily basis. No contest.
Having read your posts, here's my take. You have swallowed the whole human rights and health and safety theory bullshit which has no relevance in the real world, and that is going to get you injured or worse. My advice? Stop talking while you are ahead, it'll get ugly.
Some interesting posts
In regards to supporting a knife wielding attacker to the ground.
In that situation my first thought would be can I get myself and others to a place of safety, ie staff and customers? Preferably with a solid door between us. If that isn't possible then I wouldn't be worrying about hurting the armed attacker and taking him down 'gently' As far as I am concerned I am facing a life threatening situation. Force can be proportionate to the threat so slamming him onto the floor is not 'over the top.'
If someone tried to stick a knife in an Armed Police Officer he would have a 9mm hole in his body pretty damn quick, so I'm not worried that the Police or Courts would be interested in prosecuting me.
In regards to supporting a knife wielding attacker to the ground.
In that situation my first thought would be can I get myself and others to a place of safety, ie staff and customers? Preferably with a solid door between us. If that isn't possible then I wouldn't be worrying about hurting the armed attacker and taking him down 'gently' As far as I am concerned I am facing a life threatening situation. Force can be proportionate to the threat so slamming him onto the floor is not 'over the top.'
If someone tried to stick a knife in an Armed Police Officer he would have a 9mm hole in his body pretty damn quick, so I'm not worried that the Police or Courts would be interested in prosecuting me.
RocketDodger
Longterm Registered User
As for wrestling a knife wielding attacker to the ground. If you've got to that stage you are doing it all wrong.
Your cops have let you down. Write a letter explaining what has happened to your Chief Constable and what actions you would expect from his Cops in future. Ensure you cc it to your local MP and 'Police Commissioner'.
Job Done.
Your cops have let you down. Write a letter explaining what has happened to your Chief Constable and what actions you would expect from his Cops in future. Ensure you cc it to your local MP and 'Police Commissioner'.
Job Done.