Medics read this.

Falklan said:
Start sarcasm

it's impressive a Fpos-I or Mira or some other veteran edinburgh college of "makey upey mediciny" knew how to draw insulin and inject it properly. I mean fair play to the guy, not every medic borne from the EDEXCEL alumni could actually do that.

If only he had use a nasopharengeal airway this all could of been avoided.

end sarcasm

In all honesty, this stuff actually happens in a clinical environment a lot. Ok not Hyper/Hypo mistakes but still, that's why we carry narcan when we push just a bit too much.

(google explodes as Narcan is researched in a furry)
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There's a massive difference between over titrating MOR and giving insulin to a hypo.
The first is a distinct possibility with almost any patient and is due to their individual physiology, medical condition and environmental considerations. The second is because the 'medic' was clearly a fookin dick'ed and didn't have a scooby do about what he/she was doing and could have very easily have killed the patient.
 
As an HCPC registered paramedic who recently completed an offshore medics course. A two week course doesn't make you an experienced paramedic or nurse, and I know who I would like to be looking after me if shit hit the fan.
 
That's why you're required to have achieved those things BEFORE attending the OSMC - a point often lost on the FPOSi enlightened and certain TP's.
 
IMHO when you hold certification PTHLS, you should know how to handle diabetic patient.
When he collapse whether he hypo or hyperglycaemia You must take care him as a Hypogglycaemia, because hypoglycaemia more dangerous then hyper.
 
I'm not totally familiar with the didactic content of the various levels of pre-hospital EMS education in the UK, Australia, or elsewhere, but for the United States, a National Registry Paramedic has received in their paramedic program every bit of the same information that is contained within BLS, ACLS, PALS/PEPP, PhTLS/ITLS, AMSL, and a whole host of other peripheral certifications. These peripheral programs simply condense applicable information and skills to the narrow subject of the peripheral. Only the UMBC CCEMTP, the FP-C, and the combat portion of TCCC have information that is not part of the NREMT-P curriculum. I know this because I'm certified in all of them, teach most of them, and involved in the development of more than one.

It seems to me in following this thread that the real problem is term definitions when used by non-practitioners. They hear "medic" and they think paramedic-level or even physician-level capabilities. Unfortunately there are a number of programs and organizations that use the term "medic" for their little podunk whatever-it-is. In my own area, the Gulf of Mexico offshore, the first responders (American Red Cross First-Aid type education/skills) take a course called "medic first-aid." I am personally offended, and have gotten into a number of arguements regarding the definition of "medic," but that will not prompt the name change of this course.

For any of you "medics" out there working in this field who are not certified to the level of National Registry Paramedic but still calling yourselves medics, shut your bloody cheesepipe and go back to school. If you were a military medic, go back to the military. In our world, you're not a medic any more than being in a garage makes you a car. If you're from some third world country where the definition of medic is band-aid packaging, then you're no different than a boot trying to fit in with a bunch of SAS. I do mean to offend you, because you offend me. I, and my compadres in the UK/Australia/etc., spent years in school and more years learning and perfecting skills and procedures. We don't like you posers giving us a bad name by doing the likes of which described at the initiation of this thread.
 
Mikey7065 said:
I, and my compadres in the UK/Australia/etc., spent years in school and more years learning and perfecting skills and procedures.
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Oh really ? That's me impressed.

Me and my compadres military medics spent years in the worst places on earth doing a good, hands-on, job, earning a reputation, then spending money on civilian courses to comply with the requests of the market, and learning the things we still needed to learn (Offshore Medic being the main one).

I might have to go back to the military, then you go back to school, since it seems the only place you feel comfortable in.

We don't even need to argue about that, the market is what it is, and whether you like it or not, there are thousands of guys like us working all over the world. Ask my current employer why they don't employ paramedics from Australia in my position... *grin*

You don't offend me at all, your post sounds like an angry kid crying.
 
I think only to be considered a paramedic is time spent working as one.

On an ambulance, in a clinic or a hospital. Hands on.

If you have that, regardless of weather your UK, Ozzy, civvie or military then it shouldn't matter, and it didn't 10 years ago.

Now it's all about accornyms and certificates and peices of paper which amount to nothing sometimes.
 
Yeah, Arnaud, I see guys like you all the time. Great with a trauma dressing and can't even turn on the cardiac monitor. No, there's nothing similar about you and me. You're trained for your job, and I'm trained for mine. The difference is that you think your trigger-finger should qualify you for my job, but I don't think my dysrhythmia recognition and suppression capabilities qualify me for yours. There's a reason why you had to spend all that money on civilian courses. You would like to focus on me, with the juvenile name calling, when the real problem is intentional obfuscation of terminology for the purpose of avoidance at several levels. You should be just as offended about that as I am. Unless you're the beneficiary of said obfuscation ............
 
Mikey7065 said:
Yeah, Arnaud, I see guys like you all the time. Great with a trauma dressing and can't even turn on the cardiac monitor.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Find something else. Relax man, or if you really need to attack people, find a fight in your local bar. Attacking people you don't know on forums is the ultimate loser's attitude. Forums are meant to be constructive. That sentence will instantly make you look like a knob in the eyes of every military medic who passed ACLS or ALS.

The funniest thing is, a HCPC registered paramedic recently recommended my ACLS skills... anyway. If you are happy in your own little world, keep your certainties. Enjoy your fight against the evil medics... you will fail anyway... no one beats Mr Market.
 
The NREMT-P is an excellent qualification. Probably the best and most versatile. By the same token the american Physician Assistants would put most british GP's to shame. Corpsmen are excellent and their funding is huge. And for a long time the UK medical system was playing catch up. 15 years ago a british paramedic was the culmination of 4 weeks training and 6 weeks practical because emergency medicine was for doctors and nurses. Now it closely resembles what the Americans have.

The different is in america, paramedics have had a massive scope of practice. Comfortably working in remote areas and being part of the emergency crew. In the UK where population is dense there was little need to have such skills for a 15-30 minute transfer from scene to A&E.

There is a huge difference between CMT1 and HCPC Paramedic.. subsequently also NREMT-P.

It's experience which makes the difference and sets both apart. Even among NREMT-P there is a huge difference in skill strength

The part you're both missing is you're failing to recognize that each of you could be very good at what you do. And both of you will have shortcomings in either one. Arnaud has found a niche where his strong skills are applicable and Mikey7065 i'm sure you have found yours.
 
Fair post Falklan, I quite agree with you, NREMT-P seems to be the golden standard of qualifications (HPCSA ALS paramedic not too far...).

I am not comparing myself to registered paramedics.

I just do not accept people declaring that military medics are only skilled for patching bandages. The job of a military medic is a lot more versatile, it goes from a lot of trauma, but also to a lot of primary healthcare and prevention in difficult situations and terrains, to normal daily consultations, etc etc... You could be treating a gunshot wound somewhere, then two months later treating an infected wound in the middle of a jungle, on your own, with several days of patrol remaining, then come back to HQ and treat "normal" daily complaints, etc etc... Then after several years, pass OSM with ACLS or ALS, PHTLS, etc... get attachments in A&E departments and be working with nurses... the list goes on, and on...

As you wrote, everyone has shortcomings when working in remote environments. Everyone. You could be the best doctor but do you have the hands-on skills ? Military medic, but can you treat children from the local community ? And old, fat, cardiac expats ? Paramedic, but can you drain an abscess ? Do you know dental first aid ? Nurse, but are your emergency skills up to date and reliable ? Etc etc...

That's why you need to be constructive and learn from everyone you meet. Positive attitude and modesty.
 
Until there is a universal gold standard for medics, this kind of sniping and 'my patch is better than yours' debate isn't going to stop. I think the current attempt to make such a standard is a good start but will probably turn into a political body with their own agenda, like we've seen with pretty much every other organization. (I can't for the life of me remember the acronym as I'm still suffering from jet lag, but you all know what group that is).
 
Square pegs for square holes! Thats what its all about. Why cant we all just recognise others abilities and make these forums positive and constructive rather than my dogs blacker (agreeing with paramortis) yo have been to tenerife i have been to thirteenerife. Paramedics all over your prehospital stuff, nurses all over your clinical stuff, former CMTs (with experience) all over both and usually in some rather interesting square holes, you cant take away from a CMT 1 with 3 afghan tours as a patrol medic what he/she has probably achieved/dealt with and say he/she is less qualified than your 2 year uni paramedic still with wet ink on his ID card. Lets save the poor individuals their hard earned cash and direct them accordingly to improve a pretty (greedy commercial) crappy situation and if they have been duped into parting with their readies lets help them progress rather than sit and berate them for being dragged into a false sense of progression and help them improve. And from the soap box i step down.

PS paramortis, i think even if a governing body standardises everything for remote medics there will still be the nay sayers who have been to thirteenerife.
 
I'm gona set my dad on all of ya !!! he's really hard !
The top and bottom of it is .... 4 WEEK MEDICS ARE SHITE !!!!
Where ever you are and what ever you've done is only as good as a combination of experience , education, training and practice!
ALL takes quite a while and a lot of hard work to get and maintain.
Any off you holding any of the above would have never given the pt in question the drug he did.. Regardless of what state , country or registration you hold.
SO .. It proves a point that we should welcome a gold standard, be that in EMPLOYERS ONLY TAKING ON REGISTERED PROFESSIONALS or documented experience. If you want it you'll get it ... but it will take more than a couple of weeks on a med course.
 
But really , I do care ... cos i got a big gun, an armoured car, 500+ bucks a day , a box full of drugs and a head full of magic.. But it took me years to get it!!!
 
CPParamedic said:
I'm gona set my dad on all of ya !!! he's really hard !
The top and bottom of it is .... 4 WEEK MEDICS ARE SHITE !!!!
Where ever you are and what ever you've done is only as good as a combination of experience , education, training and practice!
ALL takes quite a while and a lot of hard work to get and maintain.
Any off you holding any of the above would have never given the pt in question the drug he did.. Regardless of what state , country or registration you hold.
SO .. It proves a point that we should welcome a gold standard, be that in EMPLOYERS ONLY TAKING ON REGISTERED PROFESSIONALS or documented experience. If you want it you'll get it ... but it will take more than a couple of weeks on a med course.
Click to expand...

I think its a bit blinkered to say ALL 4 week medics are shite! tarring a lot of good medics (with proven patient care after 4 weeks or less of training) just because a guy makes a mistake you can't apply that to everyone who has the same ticket. How many fitness to practice hearings are there for UK HCP paramedics every month? does that make all paramedics bad? Yes we need a gold standard (but it isn't going to happen in a month of sundays and we all know that) and even if we did there will still be a need for the (cheaper medics) FPOS-I which kinda defeats the object because those providing the service need to look at PLMs and provide what the clients want for the cheapest price and biggest profit margin. The thing is the ticket a medic holds regardless does not change his character and if he is a nugget then he will do nugget things, if he thinks he is Dr Zhivago after his 4 or 5 day pumped up FPOS-I tactical underwater knife throwing instructor EMT jedi course then we will not change that....IMHO nature of the beast we just need to suck it up and unfortunately that will see bad things happen to good people. We need to do OUR best as professionals (the ones who practice what we preach to educate more and try and prevent it at grass roots level.
 
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