No such thing as 'Cardio'
- Thread starter MC222
- Start date
I think its actually saying the cardiovascular work done during resistance training can be as beneficial as dedicated cardio training...
You're right Scab. Bit it takes an open mind in order to take on the views of others, especially if they seem so far away from what you 'know' to be true and I would say that this research is just that.
Boropete - it certainly does take more than bench presses to deal with a contact, but they can help. My session today was Tabata rows for eight sets, followed (nearly) immediately with one set of chest press done slowly and smoothly to failure. Then straight into 200m on the rower, a set of machine rows to failure and a last set of 200m on the rower. It took twelve minutes and left me in a right state.
Following the Tabata rows with a set of chest presses kept my heart rate up and 'all' I was doing was an upper body pressing movement, but I was panting like a dog all the way through.
The point is that you can use exercises like that, which aren't usually known for a CV effect, to get a CV effect. Obviously, if you take time to do three or four sets of benches, you have to allow the muscles to recover before you do another set. But just hitting one set and then onto something else really works.
A useful quote with regards to fitness/strenght training was from Albert Einstein - his definition of total madness was 'doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome (papaphrased).' That's what so many people involved in fitness training are doing and probably accounts for the huge drop off of customers at gyms - they just get fed up of limited returns.
it can to a good degree,id replace the machine & bench mc222 with some form of barbell/DB/KB/TRX or (most brutal) sandbag,this is usually a form of supplementary degree of cv training as what ive noticed from cv training for sparring for example,hill reps or track intervals was the most efficent,the rower being also a good supplement (5 sets of 500 metre rows with 20 sandbag cleans a brutal workout finisher)
I'm not swinging the lead boropete and I agree that your suggestions are all good - apart from the sandbags, I have done them all. But old injuries, exaserbated by that bastard 'age' have made me curtail my more dynamic sessions. For years I was doing hill sprints on sand hills and the like and loved them (afterwards anyway:~).
My (not) favourite was eight to ten sets of stair sprints up an eight storey building - once a week was enough for that, as the proverbial 'leg wobble' came on. I trained several times with Peter Consterdine of the British Combat Association and used to follow his regeme once a week. Bloody good and well worth looking in to.
My (not) favourite was eight to ten sets of stair sprints up an eight storey building - once a week was enough for that, as the proverbial 'leg wobble' came on. I trained several times with Peter Consterdine of the British Combat Association and used to follow his regeme once a week. Bloody good and well worth looking in to.
maximuszx12
Longterm Registered User
I am currently making a new gym routine based on a schedule of time and weight with varying exercises. I am in the process of helping in the opening of a new Gym and I will be using this as a feeler for anyone who undertakes it on a regular basis. I would advise to do this workout once a month on a goal orientated basis. I feel that overdoing it may be counter productive as it will need a decent amount of time for the body to fully recover if you are aiming for a max workout at your chosen weight limit achieved in the 1 Hour time period.
This is a designated test of endurance, strength and stamina against the clock for any individual with the drive and ability to do it. You can use any variety of weights and exercises. Such as squats,Deadlifts, Bench, Rows, seated leg press, calf raises etc. The list is endless in what you do, so long as you move the tonnage required in 1 Hour. But, you must reach the target tonnage at the end of the 1 Hour session.
Example of 25 ton workout.
100 kg bench x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg dead lifts x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg squats x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
200 kg leg press x 10 reps x 5 sets = 10 tons.
Total weight lifted is roughly 25 tons. Though I know the 2.2 kg conversion may be slightly different in total tonnage.(In the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 pounds (1,016 kg) This is just an overall figure that is rounded off slightly under the 25 ton limit. You could always do a few extra reps etc to get an overall excess tonnage.
I feel the beauty of this time limit workout is that anyone can alter the tonnage to suit their own inherent ability and strength. But you are racing against the clock to achieve it. Hence, no talking, time wasting etc and a truly positive goal achieved if you manage your overall target weight. Also once set in motion you have a goal to aim for if you cannot do the ones I have posted or even to exceed the tonnages I have put down. The choice is down to each individuals ability and stamina, aerobic capacity etc in what they do and how they do it. But I guarantee if you manage the 100 ton + workout..... you can class yourself as reasonably fit.
*TIME LIMIT. 1 HOUR
1) (Man up) workout equaling 25 tons moved.
2) (He-man) workout equaling 50 tons moved.
3) (Elitist) workout equaling 100 tons moved
Also you may want to include other elements of training IE a Swim, Tab, run or interval/Bleep to help round it off after your 1 hour routine.
All the best.
max
This is a designated test of endurance, strength and stamina against the clock for any individual with the drive and ability to do it. You can use any variety of weights and exercises. Such as squats,Deadlifts, Bench, Rows, seated leg press, calf raises etc. The list is endless in what you do, so long as you move the tonnage required in 1 Hour. But, you must reach the target tonnage at the end of the 1 Hour session.
Example of 25 ton workout.
100 kg bench x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg dead lifts x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg squats x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
200 kg leg press x 10 reps x 5 sets = 10 tons.
Total weight lifted is roughly 25 tons. Though I know the 2.2 kg conversion may be slightly different in total tonnage.(In the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 pounds (1,016 kg) This is just an overall figure that is rounded off slightly under the 25 ton limit. You could always do a few extra reps etc to get an overall excess tonnage.
I feel the beauty of this time limit workout is that anyone can alter the tonnage to suit their own inherent ability and strength. But you are racing against the clock to achieve it. Hence, no talking, time wasting etc and a truly positive goal achieved if you manage your overall target weight. Also once set in motion you have a goal to aim for if you cannot do the ones I have posted or even to exceed the tonnages I have put down. The choice is down to each individuals ability and stamina, aerobic capacity etc in what they do and how they do it. But I guarantee if you manage the 100 ton + workout..... you can class yourself as reasonably fit.
*TIME LIMIT. 1 HOUR
1) (Man up) workout equaling 25 tons moved.
2) (He-man) workout equaling 50 tons moved.
3) (Elitist) workout equaling 100 tons moved
Also you may want to include other elements of training IE a Swim, Tab, run or interval/Bleep to help round it off after your 1 hour routine.
All the best.
max
I am currently making a new gym routine based on a schedule of time and weight with varying exercises. I am in the process of helping in the opening of a new Gym and I will be using this as a feeler for anyone who undertakes it on a regular basis. I would advise to do this workout once a month on a goal orientated basis. I feel that overdoing it may be counter productive as it will need a decent amount of time for the body to fully recover if you are aiming for a max workout at your chosen weight limit achieved in the 1 Hour time period.
This is a designated test of endurance, strength and stamina against the clock for any individual with the drive and ability to do it. You can use any variety of weights and exercises. Such as squats,Deadlifts, Bench, Rows, seated leg press, calf raises etc. The list is endless in what you do, so long as you move the tonnage required in 1 Hour. But, you must reach the target tonnage at the end of the 1 Hour session.
Example of 25 ton workout.
100 kg bench x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg dead lifts x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
100 kg squats x 10 reps x 5 sets = 5 tons.
200 kg leg press x 10 reps x 5 sets = 10 tons.
Total weight lifted is roughly 25 tons. Though I know the 2.2 kg conversion may be slightly different in total tonnage.(In the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 pounds (1,016 kg) This is just an overall figure that is rounded off slightly under the 25 ton limit. You could always do a few extra reps etc to get an overall excess tonnage.
I feel the beauty of this time limit workout is that anyone can alter the tonnage to suit their own inherent ability and strength. But you are racing against the clock to achieve it. Hence, no talking, time wasting etc and a truly positive goal achieved if you manage your overall target weight. Also once set in motion you have a goal to aim for if you cannot do the ones I have posted or even to exceed the tonnages I have put down. The choice is down to each individuals ability and stamina, aerobic capacity etc in what they do and how they do it. But I guarantee if you manage the 100 ton + workout..... you can class yourself as reasonably fit.
*TIME LIMIT. 1 HOUR
1) (Man up) workout equaling 25 tons moved.
2) (He-man) workout equaling 50 tons moved.
3) (Elitist) workout equaling 100 tons moved
Also you may want to include other elements of training IE a Swim, Tab, run or interval/Bleep to help round it off after your 1 hour routine.
All the best.
max
Maximus,
Nice programme mate. My only negative with it is that it's not scaled to body weight. I.e a 100kg bench press may be a ten rep max to you but a 1 rep max to me because I weigh 10 stone wet through. Therefore 25 ton may be an achievable challenge to you be a dream to me. I think that if you changed the workout to a '300' type workout detailing percentage of 1RM to use then it would be more of a one size fits all workout.
On a side note - that's why body weight exercises such as pull ups and press ups are a great indicator of fitness and can be used to compare two individuals of different size and weight. Hence why every military fitness test used these types of exercise and not squats and dead lifts.
maximuszx12
Longterm Registered User
Apologies Standto if I did not make it clear. But I am devising the workout on a basis of ability suited to the individual who wants to undertake it.
IE: If you have a realistic goal of 10 tons over the hour.Then devise a way of breaking it down into manageable parts. As you say if you weigh 10 stone and can do 10 reps on the close/wide grip chining bar then that would give you a total of 1400 LBS moved in your target tonnage. 5 sets of that alone would give you nearly 3.5 tons towards your target tonnage.
I have devised the 25 - 100 ton routine as a realistic goal for some gym bunnies. But, you can alter this, as can anyone, to suit whatever you feel is achievable by yourself within the hour time limit.
The fact is routine breeds boredom and staleness in any programme of progression. If people cannot adapt to new ideas and ways of doing things, then negativity sets in and they lose the ability to think and act beyond the status quo. It is just a simple routine that I hope will give some users of it a feeling of accomplishment and ideally a break from the norm. Plus it is like a BFT/CFT, as it is a race against the clock and only the people who use it will inevitably find out if they are up to their own set tonnage challenge.
All the best.
max
IE: If you have a realistic goal of 10 tons over the hour.Then devise a way of breaking it down into manageable parts. As you say if you weigh 10 stone and can do 10 reps on the close/wide grip chining bar then that would give you a total of 1400 LBS moved in your target tonnage. 5 sets of that alone would give you nearly 3.5 tons towards your target tonnage.
I have devised the 25 - 100 ton routine as a realistic goal for some gym bunnies. But, you can alter this, as can anyone, to suit whatever you feel is achievable by yourself within the hour time limit.
The fact is routine breeds boredom and staleness in any programme of progression. If people cannot adapt to new ideas and ways of doing things, then negativity sets in and they lose the ability to think and act beyond the status quo. It is just a simple routine that I hope will give some users of it a feeling of accomplishment and ideally a break from the norm. Plus it is like a BFT/CFT, as it is a race against the clock and only the people who use it will inevitably find out if they are up to their own set tonnage challenge.
All the best.
max
Got you. Good programme, I like it.
I'm a massive advocate of change which is what your saying as well. People often ask me if high rep training is a good training protocol. My answer is that there are so many rights in fitness but very few wrongs. As long as you subject your body to constant change to avoid adaption then you will see gains and progression.
I think we're singing on the same wavelength!
I'm a massive advocate of change which is what your saying as well. People often ask me if high rep training is a good training protocol. My answer is that there are so many rights in fitness but very few wrongs. As long as you subject your body to constant change to avoid adaption then you will see gains and progression.
I think we're singing on the same wavelength!
You and me both fella. The advantage of the Smith machine was the catchers, but the disadvantages far outweighed that. I got my best gains using a power rack - and training with a powerlifter might have helped a tad:~)
Standto - I used to like chins, pressups and dips because it got me away from the stress of trying to replicate last times weight/reps with a barbell. I still use pressups as a staple exercise.
smith must be one of the worst training devices invented,the simple trx probably one of the best (narrowly beating the power rack).my hatred of the smith comes from the fact it moves in a plane unnatural to the bodys range of motion (for example on the shoulder press,the weight moves away from the body rather than in a line above the head) as do a lot of machines in commercial gyms and because the weaker assistance muscles are taking out of the equation,the trainee piles more and more weight on.invest less money in a power rack,well worth it in the end,your body will thank you.
The power rack I used when I was training with the old time powerlifter cost him around 20 quid at a local forge. Best bit of kit I ever used. We ised to use wooden blocks to do partial deadlifts off and set the power rack for partial bench etc.
Smith machine - keep away. As you said, they force you to work around the kit - not the way it should be. You have a natural movement and the resistance should cater for that.Pull downs are OK because the cable involved means you pull along your natural groove. Squats and DL's are the same. Benches are nearly the same, although weighted pressups, using those cheap stands from Tesco are good because you can place your arms/hands where is best for you.
Keep off lateral raises and close grip pullups and anything which doesn't replicate a movement that your skeleton would do - tri kickbacks/scott curls/leg extensions and leg curls - all bad.
Smith machine - keep away. As you said, they force you to work around the kit - not the way it should be. You have a natural movement and the resistance should cater for that.Pull downs are OK because the cable involved means you pull along your natural groove. Squats and DL's are the same. Benches are nearly the same, although weighted pressups, using those cheap stands from Tesco are good because you can place your arms/hands where is best for you.
Keep off lateral raises and close grip pullups and anything which doesn't replicate a movement that your skeleton would do - tri kickbacks/scott curls/leg extensions and leg curls - all bad.
They are making a valid point, it's all a balance, but people tend to steer towards the type of PT they are good at.
Runners tend to run, muscle guys stick to weights, etc
The trick and difficult part is to train at the things you don't do well.
Always work on your weaknesses, to do so takes real strength of mind.
Runners tend to run, muscle guys stick to weights, etc
The trick and difficult part is to train at the things you don't do well.
Always work on your weaknesses, to do so takes real strength of mind.
D