Non Frontline Licence ?

J

John Twells

Longterm Registered User
Would a Chauffeur Company offering and providing security personnel require a non front line SIA licence? Especially if their web site mentions the following key phrases:
  • Risk assessment
  • Arrival and departure planning to minimize risks
  • Handling press, media and friendly approaches from fans
  • Providing defensive escort driving
  • Engaging in unarmed defensive tactics
  • Conducting home, office, vehicle and building searches
  • Protecting clients in crowd situations
  • Making logistical arrangements
 
The company themselves can offer this service as you are not required to be licenced to work in an office or indeed offer services, but any employees who are carrying out the tasks would have to be licenced in their appropriate sectors.Many security firms employ non-licenced people and as long as they are not directly on the front line it isn't a problem.
 
The following activities will not require a licence:
  • <LI class=webbody>the giving of legal, financial or business advice regarding the acquisition of security operatives; <LI class=webbody>activities of a member of a relevant accountancy body;
  • the provision of training to provide people with skills, qualifications or knowledge for use in carrying out security activities.
 
The directors of any company providing security services need a non-front line licence. Any managers involved in managing the day-to-day activities of security staff need a licence. (This does not apply to any companies using the in-house exemption but that would not apply here).
So in this case, the directors need a non-front line licence. The manager that recruits the security staff needs a non-front line licence. The manager that decided what security staff do which job needs a non-front line licence. The manager in charge of getting the vehicles serviced does not need a non-front licence.

Report to the SIA by all means but I wouldn't hold much hope of them doing anything at all.
 
Littlewoman!
READ!
Copy and paste is easy, we can all do it.

This company is registered as a Chauffeuring Company, and there for the SIA does NOT apply.

Your answer applies to Security Companies, different ballgame, according to the SIA.

If you think I'm wrong, ask the SIA. But bear in mind: Wake some sleeping dogs and the SIA might start licensing chauffeurs too.

For the future: stop giving advise that's not relevant to the question, based on lack of knowledge, or anything you're NOT an expert in, seen enough of it now, it's dangerous, wrong and put people on false tracks.
 
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Dasiy,where in this statement do you see the words Security Company !

A non-front line licence is required for those who manage, supervise and/or employ individuals who engage in licensable activity, as long as front line activity is not carried out - this includes directors* or partners. A non-front line licence is issued in the form of a letter that also covers key holding activities.
*For the purposes of the Private Security Industry Act 2001, "director" means executive and non-executive directors, shadow directors, parent company directors and corporate entities holding a directorship.

Or do i need new glasses !
 
To add on to Johns post above ans at the risk of being blasted for cutting and pasting from the SIA website, thought this might help also


Role
Licence type​


Sole traders, contractors, directors of companies and partners of firms who perform designated licensable activities themselves for the purposes of or in connection with any contract to supply services to the consumer.
Front line

Note that all these roles are in relation to contracts for the supply of services. These are the 'contract' roles

Employees of sole traders, companies or firms who perform the designated activities themselves for the purposes of or in connection with any contract to supply services to the consumer.
Front line

Employees, directors of companies and partners of firms that perform designated duties themselves under instructions given by the consumer they are contracted to supply the services to.
Front line

Any person who manages or supervises employees of a security provider where such employees perform designated activities for the purposes of or in connection with any contract to a consumer (see note below).
Non-front line

Any person who manages and supervises agency workers who are instructed to carry out designated activities (see note below)
Non-front line

Directors or partners of a company/firm when any other of the directors, partners or employees of that company/firm perform licensable conduct as described in (a) to (e) above.
Non-front line

Any person that employs door supervisors or vehicle immobilisers.
Non-front line

Any person (whether an employee, or the director of a company, or the partner of a firm) that performs door supervision or vehicle immobilisation.
Front line

Persons who are employed to manage or supervise door supervisors or vehicle immobilisers.
Non-front line

Any person performing licensable vehicle immobilisation activity and charging a release fee. This includes landowners, their staff and volunteers.
Front line

Special additional role relating to anyone including landowners, their staff and volunteers.





Note:
  • If you act as a manager or supervisor of an individual where that individual is required to carry out designated licensable activities for the purposes of or in connection with a contract for the supply of services then you will require a licence even if you are an employee of the customer of the services.
If you merely give directions to a licensable individual on the customer's behalf, you are not considered a manager or supervisor of that person. In addition, if you are engaged by the firm providing the security services, to give directions only, you are not required to be licensed.


Here is the link for any further help
Licensable Roles - Security Industry Authority
 
Hahaha,

John, the difference is in the registration of the company... When registered as a Chaufeuring Company, no SIA licenses needed (but a Chauffeurs license).

We all know of CPs who do chauffeuring jobs, and chauffeurs do CP jobs (or part of), as long as the chauffeur is on paper chauffeur, it's not a security industry worker.
One gets paid for one job & does more, the other for another job & does extra duties, both get paid for either being a CP or a Chauffeur, neither get double pay for doing cross over jobs!

So the answer from little woman is irrelevant to the question, and I'm referring to her remark: 'Report to the SIA by all means but I wouldn't hold much hope of them doing anything at all', which indicates she assumes the persons employed by the Chauffeuring Company 'should' be licensed by the SIA.
 
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Daisy said:
So the answer from little woman is irrelevant to the question, and I'm referring to her remark: 'Report to the SIA by all means but I wouldn't hold much hope of them doing anything at all', which indicates she assumes the persons employed by the Chauffeuring Company 'should' be licensed by the SIA.
Click to expand...

Maybe putting peronal feelings aside and reading that line then it is clear there is no asumption inferred. In fact how does "wouldn't hold much hope of them doing anything" convey that? You have referred to a particular line to prove a point so in that you are wrong. It seems a few might need to READ things again rather than give an emotive point.

Now can every one play nice please.
 
Nomad,

There's nothing emotive, no feelings involved, except for the discontent with wrongful and possibly harmful information given.

Long and short of the story is: NO director of a Chauffeuring Company does not (yet) need to be (non-) frontline licensed. And YES the duties John mentionned are often the ones they fullfil.

What the SIA site says about who & why persons should be licensed is not the same as what in fact is per definition required, as stated earlier: if you don't believe it ring the SIA.

On the same note: If you drive your client in London as a CP, would you need a chauffeurs license, NO as you're hired as a CP who happens to drive his client from time to time.
 
Thought I'd ask the SIA and they came back with this:

Dear Mr Twells,

Thank you for your email to the SIA.

From the information given in your email, I can confirm that the director/supervisor/employer of the Chauffeuring company would require a non-frontline licence in order to be eligible to supply clients with contracted security staff.

If you wish to make any further enquiries please contact us on 0844 892 1025 between 8am – 8pm Monday to Friday.

Yours sincerely

Emma
SIA Contact Centre
 
So in theory if I was to say I am a chip fryer, but offer security services, then I would not need an SIA license. If you offer security services no matter what your title may be then the SIA should be concerned. And have you seen who they give PCO licenses to ?
 
Well basically the managers are supplying a frontline role so it stands to reason that they would require a non-frontline licence
 
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