Paramedic Advancement?
- Thread starter rhea
- Start date
Starlight
Super Moderator
Is he UK?
There are a few (8 I think) that have PHD's, so technically, they can call themselves Dr. It's very misleading though, and I can't imagine for one minute any of them doing so. They are more likely to show post nominals of PHD.
There is US Para, who's known as Doc Clinchy. Not sure if he's a MD, but has been known as Doc for years.
Similarly, I served with someone who was a medic and whose nickname was doc (fook knows why).
In answer to your question though, I'd be asking some very serious questions about the Para.
There are a few (8 I think) that have PHD's, so technically, they can call themselves Dr. It's very misleading though, and I can't imagine for one minute any of them doing so. They are more likely to show post nominals of PHD.
There is US Para, who's known as Doc Clinchy. Not sure if he's a MD, but has been known as Doc for years.
Similarly, I served with someone who was a medic and whose nickname was doc (fook knows why).
In answer to your question though, I'd be asking some very serious questions about the Para.
Thanks for the reply SL,
This is UK based and for a SV job I am doing. I have documents that show the use of the title and am just trying to work out why.
Would there be any need to get a phd for any internal advancement if indeed there is any? Within plod there is a rank structure so what do experienced, UK based, paramedics progress into? Would they need anything to go down the teaching route?
This is UK based and for a SV job I am doing. I have documents that show the use of the title and am just trying to work out why.
Would there be any need to get a phd for any internal advancement if indeed there is any? Within plod there is a rank structure so what do experienced, UK based, paramedics progress into? Would they need anything to go down the teaching route?
littlewoman
Longterm Registered User
I know that one of the main bodies that regulates complementary medicine bans its practitioners from using the title Dr. unless they are actually a Doctor of Medicine. ie. if you have a PhD in acupuncture you would use "Fred Bloggs PhD" not "Dr. Bloggs". Seems that would be good practice to avoid confusion. Also any non-medical doctors I know only use the Dr. preface within their profession, if at all.
Starlight
Super Moderator
Thanks for the reply SL,
This is UK based and for a SV job I am doing. I have documents that show the use of the title and am just trying to work out why.
Would there be any need to get a phd for any internal advancement if indeed there is any? Within plod there is a rank structure so what do experienced, UK based, paramedics progress into? Would they need anything to go down the teaching route?
No, absolutely no need for a working para to have a PHD. S'pose it would be nice though.
As I said, my understanding is that there are about 8 who currently do have PHDs, but their roles are as consultant paras, so work at governmental and stategic level. You're unlikely to see them dealing with a nan down who's smashed off her tits on cheap cider......
I may be completely wrong about this para, but I recon he's full of shite. Why not ask the HCPC? They might know and if they don't would probably like to.
PM me his PA number. I'll fookin find out
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Mountainman
Super Moderator
We have at least one Advanced Paramedic in work who is currently doing his PhD. All paid for by the service!
Starlight
Super Moderator
That's nice for him/her. Lucky Para.
I work with 2 Docs that are doing PHDs and they're both taking time out to complete it so are unpaid, plus I'm pretty sure they're self funding.
Presumably, once the Paras PHD is done and dusted, they'll be off to the DoH for some big bucks, and who would blame them.
Interesting read regarding people's different perceptions of who can and can't call themselves a doctor. Completely agree that it causes a lot of confusion too. Whilst reading a research paper recently I noted the author to be a doctor..of nursing. PhD. paramedics are employed as Consultant Paramedics as Starlight has alluded to and carry out a wide range of duties across the full spectrum of a modern day ambulance service.
A link to the career framework for a UK registered paramedics https://www.collegeofparamedics.co.uk/publications/post-reg-career-framework
A link to the career framework for a UK registered paramedics https://www.collegeofparamedics.co.uk/publications/post-reg-career-framework
Agree that the use of Dr. could cause some confusion. I will say this though, if I went through all the effort and headache involved in getting a PhD. I'd be adding Dr. to every damn thing with my name on it, hell I'd probably stop people in the street to tell them, but them I'm into that sort of flashy wanker stuff.
Starlight
Super Moderator
You say that, but in these days of linear MDTs (Multi Disciplinary Teams) the old style vertical hierarchy is fast becoming a thing of the past.
For instance, you'd be a very brave and dim witted junior Doc, if you decided to 'pull rank' on an experienced A&E staff nurse. Similarly, even an experienced Doc will give way and be guided by a Paramedic at the scene of a motorway smash.
So, it's not quite so cut and dry any more.
There's also a hyperthetical that I'd love to see tested.....here it is......
A 'junior' doc, say ST4 in emergency medicine has got about another 6 to 10 years to go before being considered for a consultant post. That ST4 is on about £30 - £35k pa. A band 6 Para is on about the same. Given that the Doc is also a prescriber and can refer to all sorts of speciality definitive care, if they applied to be a Para, they'd be band 8b, which puts them on something like £50 - £60k pa.
So, the Doc could easily be on about 20k - 30k pa more than they are working as a junior doc if they were to apply to be a para.
'swat I'd do if I had the chance. I'd love to see someone test the theory.
Hi Starlight
I totally understand your points about a junior Dr pulling rank on more experienced members of nursing staff etc. My point was made in regard to the question of a dual registered Dr/Para. Any doctor wishing to work pre hospital (hems, basics etc) can do so on a GMC registration and has no need to register with the HCPC.
The second part of your post is interesting and to be honest I'd never thought of it. One issue with maybe that said junior Dr may be playing the long game and biding their time, putting in the years and the learning and then finally getting the consultants post. The other issue is that band 8b roles just aren't that thick on the ground particularly with the ambulance services. Yes there are ECP and Urgent Care Practitioner roles usually attracting band 7, which still isn't a kicked arse away from what junior Dr will get but band 8 is rare.
Very interesting concept and food for thought
Scott
I totally understand your points about a junior Dr pulling rank on more experienced members of nursing staff etc. My point was made in regard to the question of a dual registered Dr/Para. Any doctor wishing to work pre hospital (hems, basics etc) can do so on a GMC registration and has no need to register with the HCPC.
The second part of your post is interesting and to be honest I'd never thought of it. One issue with maybe that said junior Dr may be playing the long game and biding their time, putting in the years and the learning and then finally getting the consultants post. The other issue is that band 8b roles just aren't that thick on the ground particularly with the ambulance services. Yes there are ECP and Urgent Care Practitioner roles usually attracting band 7, which still isn't a kicked arse away from what junior Dr will get but band 8 is rare.
Very interesting concept and food for thought
Scott
As a nurse, I have colleagues who have PhD's and are Doctorites in Healthcare Sciences - usually within large General Hospitals the Head of Nursing will be a 'Dr' head Nurse. Like mentioned before, they usually reside high up in the management structure or in practitioner/research posts
You have to ask the question - if someone is so highly qualified, why are they still on the ground?
The clinical governance side of my role is to check , and double check all the Team Medics quals - to ensure they meet the contractual needs of their job. I would have alarm bells ringing is I was presented with someones CV this gleaming
You have to ask the question - if someone is so highly qualified, why are they still on the ground?
The clinical governance side of my role is to check , and double check all the Team Medics quals - to ensure they meet the contractual needs of their job. I would have alarm bells ringing is I was presented with someones CV this gleaming