Ben can you please contact me off line. Hoveton@Yahoo.com Thanks mate.
Security Management Qualifications?
- Thread starter Ben10
- Start date
Hi Ben,
before I left the army i enrolled into the Loughborough Uni Security Management Masters Degree programme. 3 years distant learning with interesting modules and sound advice and guidance from a tutor all the way through. Cost is roughly £5k for the 3 years but you can elect to stop at 2 and just have a diploma. You can claim most of this incrementally via the enhanced learning credits that the army offers. just make sure you get the application form in early if applying for funding. I passed last year and I know that some companies look favourably on those with it. I'm not saying its a must have but it is another club in your bag in what may one day be a shrinking security pool.
before I left the army i enrolled into the Loughborough Uni Security Management Masters Degree programme. 3 years distant learning with interesting modules and sound advice and guidance from a tutor all the way through. Cost is roughly £5k for the 3 years but you can elect to stop at 2 and just have a diploma. You can claim most of this incrementally via the enhanced learning credits that the army offers. just make sure you get the application form in early if applying for funding. I passed last year and I know that some companies look favourably on those with it. I'm not saying its a must have but it is another club in your bag in what may one day be a shrinking security pool.
mcgeever71
Full Registered User
Gents,
Thankyou very much for all this good solid advice. I am Certainly considering taking a managment qualification of some sort. It is definately noted that, if you/we are seeking to push alittle further up the chain, then we have to swallow some of our hard earned cash, go on some courses and invest in ourselves. I see some of you have even started doing it, whilst ur still serving, or just about to leave; all i can say is that is good drills on your behalf, good ole prior, planning and prep - certainly works before entering the "security circuit". I only wish i'd done that!
So....we have master's, foundation, diploma's......whats the most recognised? universally?
"If" i'm about to spend £5K on a course, then i'm hoping its fully recognised? Then I guess, maybe its a question of what area to i want to continue in, and where??? Answers on a postcard please....
to all.......Keep safe, Keep Smiling...Be Lucky!
McGeever.
Thankyou very much for all this good solid advice. I am Certainly considering taking a managment qualification of some sort. It is definately noted that, if you/we are seeking to push alittle further up the chain, then we have to swallow some of our hard earned cash, go on some courses and invest in ourselves. I see some of you have even started doing it, whilst ur still serving, or just about to leave; all i can say is that is good drills on your behalf, good ole prior, planning and prep - certainly works before entering the "security circuit". I only wish i'd done that!
So....we have master's, foundation, diploma's......whats the most recognised? universally?
"If" i'm about to spend £5K on a course, then i'm hoping its fully recognised? Then I guess, maybe its a question of what area to i want to continue in, and where??? Answers on a postcard please....
to all.......Keep safe, Keep Smiling...Be Lucky!
McGeever.
Hi McGeever.
The first decision you have to make is what part of the security circuit you want to want to move in. This will then provide you with a direction on what type of course (subjects) to take. The level of education is , well up to the depth of your pocket and your ability to learn and pass exams.
For me as an former RMP leaving the service after 25 years I decided to go down the HSE Cert resettlement route initially as I had a lot of security bits and pieces. However once outside I very quickly discovered that a "Certificate" in a particular subject was no use to man nor beast. I therefore embarked upon initially the Post Grad Dip in Security management as I was main stream corporate security. Once I got past that hurdle I progressed onto the MSc which I now have. I have been on the general Corporate circuit for 10 or more years and as you said "if you want to push up the chain" then the ultimate has to be the MSc. But get the Post Grad Dip in what ever subject you chose first.
A final note on the subject of direction. Become double hatted! General Security plus IT (Info) Security, is perhaps the best was if you can hack it!, or General Security & HSE, or Even better Quality,HSE & Security, as I have done.
Its all about horses for courses. If anyone wants more info on training establishments etc., then get in touch, as I, as they say, have been there, done it, got the Tee Shirt!
Hoveton...
The first decision you have to make is what part of the security circuit you want to want to move in. This will then provide you with a direction on what type of course (subjects) to take. The level of education is , well up to the depth of your pocket and your ability to learn and pass exams.
For me as an former RMP leaving the service after 25 years I decided to go down the HSE Cert resettlement route initially as I had a lot of security bits and pieces. However once outside I very quickly discovered that a "Certificate" in a particular subject was no use to man nor beast. I therefore embarked upon initially the Post Grad Dip in Security management as I was main stream corporate security. Once I got past that hurdle I progressed onto the MSc which I now have. I have been on the general Corporate circuit for 10 or more years and as you said "if you want to push up the chain" then the ultimate has to be the MSc. But get the Post Grad Dip in what ever subject you chose first.
A final note on the subject of direction. Become double hatted! General Security plus IT (Info) Security, is perhaps the best was if you can hack it!, or General Security & HSE, or Even better Quality,HSE & Security, as I have done.
Its all about horses for courses. If anyone wants more info on training establishments etc., then get in touch, as I, as they say, have been there, done it, got the Tee Shirt!
Hoveton...
M
mickworldwide
Guest
Have a look at the ASIS qualifications , if you need any further info contact us at morrigan solutions international , our lead consultant partner Dale Kneeland is rather well to do in ASIS having been the european Chairman of the Germany/ Austria region and VP of the another region in the past.
I am sure Dale would be happy to talk you through the process and any other queries you might have.
Asis have worldwide chapters and their qualification CPP is held in high regard pretty much worldwide.
I am sure Dale would be happy to talk you through the process and any other queries you might have.
Asis have worldwide chapters and their qualification CPP is held in high regard pretty much worldwide.
Quals
Hoverton is spot on with his comments.
If you are looking a career in the security industry a security management qualification (I would say a minimum of a diploma - 2 years) and a HSE qualification (NEBOSH) makes you more attractive to a potential employer. Two for the price of one always makes employers sit up and take notice.
Turanian
Hoverton is spot on with his comments.
If you are looking a career in the security industry a security management qualification (I would say a minimum of a diploma - 2 years) and a HSE qualification (NEBOSH) makes you more attractive to a potential employer. Two for the price of one always makes employers sit up and take notice.
Turanian
Don't worry turanian I have finger problems as well and thanks for the word of support.
It is best not become publicly involved with a discussion on which training establishments are best. However, what I will advise is to research, research, research! Look at the job boards - as many as you can find and read what the employers are asking for in terms of qualifications. Then make you mind up which qualification you need.
However, a bit of advice for any service leaver or someone who is thinking about leaving the service. START NOW! and convert all your certificates, training, bits of paper etc. into meaningful qualifications recognised in Civy Street. Take an NVQ and capitalise on your experience in management or Spec Qual. If you are a CPL/SNCO/WO or Officer then take a look at the City & Guilds web site for a starters for 10.
City & Guilds | Senior Awards Here you will find ways of converting what you have into a recognised degree. (Depending upon what you have naturally).
Then start working on that resettlement even if it is before you enter into the last two years. You wont regret it one bit. If anyone wants to contact me off line my email is:- Hoveton@Yahoo.com. I will talk to any one who doesn't send me SPAM.
Take care.....
It is best not become publicly involved with a discussion on which training establishments are best. However, what I will advise is to research, research, research! Look at the job boards - as many as you can find and read what the employers are asking for in terms of qualifications. Then make you mind up which qualification you need.
However, a bit of advice for any service leaver or someone who is thinking about leaving the service. START NOW! and convert all your certificates, training, bits of paper etc. into meaningful qualifications recognised in Civy Street. Take an NVQ and capitalise on your experience in management or Spec Qual. If you are a CPL/SNCO/WO or Officer then take a look at the City & Guilds web site for a starters for 10.
City & Guilds | Senior Awards Here you will find ways of converting what you have into a recognised degree. (Depending upon what you have naturally).
Then start working on that resettlement even if it is before you enter into the last two years. You wont regret it one bit. If anyone wants to contact me off line my email is:- Hoveton@Yahoo.com. I will talk to any one who doesn't send me SPAM.
Take care.....mcgeever71
Full Registered User
Hoveton, Turanian & Others,
Many thanks for your swift replies. I'm thinking along the corporate side of things, and what what i can gather doing a "post grad dip" or an MSC, makes you more a jack of 3/4 specialities, than being a master of one? Which i would rather be! please correct me if i'm wrong on that one. i'm also verging on nearly 9 yrs out on the circuit, mixture of contracts..i like to keep my hand in wether it be, training, surveillance, advisory roles, CP, etc. I'm definately in total agreement with what you say about being "doublehatted". But blimey...i dont half hate HSE!!!! But.....as you said, its another adqual that will, and can put you in a much better posn after starters orders!
So in conclusion...
MSC - Loughborough Uni - £5k spread over 2/3 years
CPP - ASIS. Length/term? cost?
Sec & Risk Foundation Degree - Leicester Uni
i'm sure there's many more - obviously the universal ones most recognised i will ultimately pursue.
Gents, as always many thanks for ur help. I will do some "googling" IDC.
Regards,
McGeever.
Many thanks for your swift replies. I'm thinking along the corporate side of things, and what what i can gather doing a "post grad dip" or an MSC, makes you more a jack of 3/4 specialities, than being a master of one? Which i would rather be! please correct me if i'm wrong on that one. i'm also verging on nearly 9 yrs out on the circuit, mixture of contracts..i like to keep my hand in wether it be, training, surveillance, advisory roles, CP, etc. I'm definately in total agreement with what you say about being "doublehatted". But blimey...i dont half hate HSE!!!! But.....as you said, its another adqual that will, and can put you in a much better posn after starters orders!
So in conclusion...
MSC - Loughborough Uni - £5k spread over 2/3 years
CPP - ASIS. Length/term? cost?
Sec & Risk Foundation Degree - Leicester Uni
i'm sure there's many more - obviously the universal ones most recognised i will ultimately pursue.
Gents, as always many thanks for ur help. I will do some "googling" IDC.
Regards,
McGeever.
Hi Mcgeever
I thought exactly as you did about HSE as it always seamed to get in the way of having fun. But the reality is simply that being double hatted gives you a good back hand. You don't have to look at HSE. If you really want to be at the top with big money then try Info Sec.
Do a simple exercise. Goggle security jobs and count how many and what quality there are, lets say all jobs over 45-50k, then do the same for HSE especially in construction or on international projects and or Info Sec. You will be surprised at the amount of HSE or Info Sec jobs there are available compared with General Corporate Security jobs. The numbers speak for themselves.
what ever you do you need to aim to be sitting at senior/middle or senior management within 4-8 years. Faster if possible.
Have a good weekend ..... Hoveton
I thought exactly as you did about HSE as it always seamed to get in the way of having fun. But the reality is simply that being double hatted gives you a good back hand. You don't have to look at HSE. If you really want to be at the top with big money then try Info Sec.
Do a simple exercise. Goggle security jobs and count how many and what quality there are, lets say all jobs over 45-50k, then do the same for HSE especially in construction or on international projects and or Info Sec. You will be surprised at the amount of HSE or Info Sec jobs there are available compared with General Corporate Security jobs. The numbers speak for themselves.
what ever you do you need to aim to be sitting at senior/middle or senior management within 4-8 years. Faster if possible.
Have a good weekend ..... Hoveton
I second what Hoveton said- Info Sec professionals are in very short supply, but remember that for Info Sec you will need a hell of a lot of technical qualifications, at least an MCSA or MCSE from Microsoft, ideally a qualification from Cisco and in a perfect world your CISSP. If you then want to look at penetration testing you'll need a qualification in that as well. It adds up to a hell of a lot of money and time- but the end product is a VERY financially rewarding career path.
As for the ASIS CPP- best bet is check out the ASIS website, ASIS International: Home Page but as a short guide you'll need security experience, they say at least 7 years with a degree( including 3 years in charge of a security team) to 9 years security experience without a degree (including 3 years in charge of a security team). Cost is as I recall about $450 for the exam- but you'll need the study guide and reference material, and you'll maybe need to attend a CPP cramming session, normally a 2 day event. For these costs best bet is to check on the ASIS website itself.
As for the ASIS CPP- best bet is check out the ASIS website, ASIS International: Home Page but as a short guide you'll need security experience, they say at least 7 years with a degree( including 3 years in charge of a security team) to 9 years security experience without a degree (including 3 years in charge of a security team). Cost is as I recall about $450 for the exam- but you'll need the study guide and reference material, and you'll maybe need to attend a CPP cramming session, normally a 2 day event. For these costs best bet is to check on the ASIS website itself.
Hi Ben, I agree with the previous posts, the Anubis course is one of the better ones currently available. Looking at doing the course in Sep this year myself. If you are out by then you can use the Enhanced Learning Credits to help pay a percentage of the course for you. Its split into 3 modules, the 1st and 3rd are classroom phases at about 2 weeks each and the middle phase is a distance learning phase. More info on their website. All the best mate.
Hay Guys
some really good solid advise on this thread, just a few additions from my experience.
I am due to sit the ASIS CPP exam in Nov as I live out in the ME I decided it was the best program for me, all up with registration, books etc its cost about $1800.
have found it a good all rounder based program.
On the multi hatter subject totally agree with the comments, Im in the process of looking for a new job over here and the majority of the companies advertising are asking for HSE quals and the 2 out of 10 that do reply to applications have asked do you have HSE experiance. SO myself will be doing HSE after the CPP.
to all those that are thinking of, or doing further studys good luck
some really good solid advise on this thread, just a few additions from my experience.
I am due to sit the ASIS CPP exam in Nov as I live out in the ME I decided it was the best program for me, all up with registration, books etc its cost about $1800.
have found it a good all rounder based program.
On the multi hatter subject totally agree with the comments, Im in the process of looking for a new job over here and the majority of the companies advertising are asking for HSE quals and the 2 out of 10 that do reply to applications have asked do you have HSE experiance. SO myself will be doing HSE after the CPP.
to all those that are thinking of, or doing further studys good luck
R
Rosie
Guest
Ladies & Gents,
I thought it might be worth adding my two pence worth in here based on my own observations and experience. I am not UK based so please excuse the lack of BTEC / SIA related courses etc as my focus is on internationally applicable qualifications:
MSc Sec & Risk (Leicester) - took me 3 and a half years to get through it primarily due to work requirements (continual ad-hoc travel and irregular working hours (should sound familiar to the masses)). Yes it did cost me around 5000 pounds and meant a number of sacrifices during the period. Was it worth it - the qualification allowed me to apply for a function at a much higher level which I got based on operational experience and meeting academic requirements - the salary increase paid for the course in the first 3 months.. Yes it is worth it and is a good compliment to back up the operational background.
My personal belief is that we generally know less that we like to think. I recognised deficiencies in myself on the physical security side and did the ASIS PSP (Physical Security Professional) program. This was a good choice as a thorough understanding of target hardening methods and understanding the grass roots of how things actually work is to my mind only a benefit and will most certainly improve an operators survey ability. I would recommend this, it is a good program, not too taxing, not overly and allows an operator to talk technically (within reason) with confidence. Yes, it is slanted towards the US but so is Kentucky Fried Chicken and they are not bad either. I am also sitting the CPP exam in November. Point to remember with CPP is that you need a certain amount of qualifying supervisory experience to do it. In a number of ways it solidifies a number core managerial skills / experience into a recognised course. There are large networking possibilities and it does mean that others will have a basic idea of your minimal knowledge level. It is becoming more and more prevalent and it is becoming an expected qualification to hold. Again a good investment providing you are at the right functional level to get the best out of it.
I am fortunate to have a few investigation related qualifications but again the application of this in the work place is not always relevant. A modern Sec Manager may have to deal with multitude of tasks from exec protection, loss prevention, security investigations, surveys, audit and lord only knows what else. I for instance had no background in any kind of financial transactions or fraud. Rectification was found in the Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) course from the ACFE (Association of Certified Fraud Examiners - Fraud Training & Education). I did the UK version as it made the legal side easier (there are US and international versions). This was also beneficial. It provides a grounding in relevant legal concerns, methods of fraud and detection, investigative process and interviewing. For anybody not with previous Police experience this could be beneficial, it is not an overly large investment and does provide another string to the bow. The market is only going to get more competitive.
Another hat worn is guard force control, the grass routes of keeping low paid staff doing a mundane job with minimal recognition. I did the Certified Protection Officer (not Close protection related - US based where protective security encompasses static guarding etc) with the IFPO (International Foundation of Protection Officers). This was done with a view to getting accredited as CPO(Instructor) so that I could run the program for security guards internally and facilitate professional development. In truth, very little was learnt from a practical level as it is aimed at the guard level. Investment here is to be able to bring more to the staff and enhance their performance. It is more a US qualification but will hopefully prove beneficial. Not a great career enhancer outside the US but it another bow string that will help with the staff matters by facilitating education (again - non UK).
As a general preference I would take more note of those persons with professional accreditation through examination than those with Associate affiliations. Why pay for instance for ASIS / ACFE associate membership if you do not go for the full accreditation. Being a inactive member of an organisation gives you nothing more than a few emails and news letters.
Where next……… well the CPP is for me a must have. After that, as has been mentioned in other threads, the need for an understanding of Info Sec / IT Sec is only going to become more and more important. I will be personally looking into the Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP) to round things off.
Of course, staying current across the board and retaining certifications is both a financial and time burden. Fact is that your were assumed to be current when you were hired, the employer rightfully expects you to stay that way, and that is down to you.
Apologies for the longwinded input, final comment is that I have seen some very well projected comments from obviously well qualified professionals on here. A strong CP background and skills base is a great asset, however it would be unwise not to be able to effectively turn a hand to other related tasks with some competence and confidence.
The more skills/experience and qualifications you can bring to the table, the better the chance of getting a good seat at it but before dispensing with the hard earned cash make a realistic assessment of what the qualification can bring you and if it is worth the outlay.
Stay safe one and all.
I thought it might be worth adding my two pence worth in here based on my own observations and experience. I am not UK based so please excuse the lack of BTEC / SIA related courses etc as my focus is on internationally applicable qualifications:
MSc Sec & Risk (Leicester) - took me 3 and a half years to get through it primarily due to work requirements (continual ad-hoc travel and irregular working hours (should sound familiar to the masses)). Yes it did cost me around 5000 pounds and meant a number of sacrifices during the period. Was it worth it - the qualification allowed me to apply for a function at a much higher level which I got based on operational experience and meeting academic requirements - the salary increase paid for the course in the first 3 months.. Yes it is worth it and is a good compliment to back up the operational background.
My personal belief is that we generally know less that we like to think. I recognised deficiencies in myself on the physical security side and did the ASIS PSP (Physical Security Professional) program. This was a good choice as a thorough understanding of target hardening methods and understanding the grass roots of how things actually work is to my mind only a benefit and will most certainly improve an operators survey ability. I would recommend this, it is a good program, not too taxing, not overly and allows an operator to talk technically (within reason) with confidence. Yes, it is slanted towards the US but so is Kentucky Fried Chicken and they are not bad either. I am also sitting the CPP exam in November. Point to remember with CPP is that you need a certain amount of qualifying supervisory experience to do it. In a number of ways it solidifies a number core managerial skills / experience into a recognised course. There are large networking possibilities and it does mean that others will have a basic idea of your minimal knowledge level. It is becoming more and more prevalent and it is becoming an expected qualification to hold. Again a good investment providing you are at the right functional level to get the best out of it.
I am fortunate to have a few investigation related qualifications but again the application of this in the work place is not always relevant. A modern Sec Manager may have to deal with multitude of tasks from exec protection, loss prevention, security investigations, surveys, audit and lord only knows what else. I for instance had no background in any kind of financial transactions or fraud. Rectification was found in the Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) course from the ACFE (Association of Certified Fraud Examiners - Fraud Training & Education). I did the UK version as it made the legal side easier (there are US and international versions). This was also beneficial. It provides a grounding in relevant legal concerns, methods of fraud and detection, investigative process and interviewing. For anybody not with previous Police experience this could be beneficial, it is not an overly large investment and does provide another string to the bow. The market is only going to get more competitive.
Another hat worn is guard force control, the grass routes of keeping low paid staff doing a mundane job with minimal recognition. I did the Certified Protection Officer (not Close protection related - US based where protective security encompasses static guarding etc) with the IFPO (International Foundation of Protection Officers). This was done with a view to getting accredited as CPO(Instructor) so that I could run the program for security guards internally and facilitate professional development. In truth, very little was learnt from a practical level as it is aimed at the guard level. Investment here is to be able to bring more to the staff and enhance their performance. It is more a US qualification but will hopefully prove beneficial. Not a great career enhancer outside the US but it another bow string that will help with the staff matters by facilitating education (again - non UK).
As a general preference I would take more note of those persons with professional accreditation through examination than those with Associate affiliations. Why pay for instance for ASIS / ACFE associate membership if you do not go for the full accreditation. Being a inactive member of an organisation gives you nothing more than a few emails and news letters.
Where next……… well the CPP is for me a must have. After that, as has been mentioned in other threads, the need for an understanding of Info Sec / IT Sec is only going to become more and more important. I will be personally looking into the Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP) to round things off.
Of course, staying current across the board and retaining certifications is both a financial and time burden. Fact is that your were assumed to be current when you were hired, the employer rightfully expects you to stay that way, and that is down to you.
Apologies for the longwinded input, final comment is that I have seen some very well projected comments from obviously well qualified professionals on here. A strong CP background and skills base is a great asset, however it would be unwise not to be able to effectively turn a hand to other related tasks with some competence and confidence.
The more skills/experience and qualifications you can bring to the table, the better the chance of getting a good seat at it but before dispensing with the hard earned cash make a realistic assessment of what the qualification can bring you and if it is worth the outlay.
Stay safe one and all.
Carl Dowd
Longterm Registered User
Rosie hi...
I admire your intellect and I enjoyed your intelligent writing on the above subject but really I have to disagree with Kentucky Fried chicken being and I quote: "not bad"
In my experience, the meat is thin on the bone, the batter is quite disgusting and the french fries are always cold and consistently have to be returned.
I admire your intellect and I enjoyed your intelligent writing on the above subject but really I have to disagree with Kentucky Fried chicken being and I quote: "not bad"
In my experience, the meat is thin on the bone, the batter is quite disgusting and the french fries are always cold and consistently have to be returned.
R
Rosie
Guest
I cannot disagree - put it down to a lack of imagination on my part, after a Big Mac I was struggling for a positive comparison - I am actually a vegetarian so read into that what you will
Carl Dowd
Longterm Registered User
Outstanding... Intellect, Intelligence and a fantastic sense of humour...
I sincerely look forward to reading more of your posts... to be further educated and enlightened on a subject I know little of.
I trust, that wherever you are or whatever you are involved in... you will also stay safe Rosie.
My kindest regards to you... Carl
I sincerely look forward to reading more of your posts... to be further educated and enlightened on a subject I know little of.
I trust, that wherever you are or whatever you are involved in... you will also stay safe Rosie.
My kindest regards to you... Carl
Which one, security qualifications or takeway food.... or maybe both?
Besides give me a Hardees any time over KFC.
But seriously I'd concur with Rosie, the CPP is definitely becoming more recognised, but the so are other qualifications like the MSC. I think it is fair to say that like a lot of other industries the days are truly gone of a security manager who has no accreditation and only experience. While experience is key, it comes down to proving that you know what you say you know.... and certifications are a good way of doing this.
Another point Rosie brought up about IT security brings with it a whole range of topics and questions. Like all of the security industry, the IT security side is certainly growing as a sector as well, and courses like the CISSP are good. However IT Security is a far more specialised environment and courses like the CISSP also need backing up with other courses or techinical knowledge as there are such specific demands within the exam for technical details, such as IP, routers etc. While there are general IT security guys, most have qualifications like MCSE, CCNA etc. There are very few IT security experts that specialise in multiple fields- eg Penetration Testing, Computer Forensics, Network security. If anyone is looking at IT security I would recommend looking at the core Microsoft Quals MCDST, MCSA, MCSE and then specialise in a particular field.