Take a caution or argue to court?

I was interviewed under caution a couple of days ago and yes I had a lawyer present. Fortunately the cop that was assigned the case seemed pretty cool and has said that if what I say is reflected in the CCTV then he will do his best to make the case disappear. After that he may need to call my colleagues in for a statement. So still waiting on CCTV analysis. But he did say he didn't care how the lad went down or how hard as long as the reason for putting him down is justified. As you don't know how much force you will need to use until you use it! In the meantime the club doesn't want me working for them as they are constantly under review. But fortunately the agency has put me somewhere else so its okay. Fingers crossed!
 
Mate no matter what the police say NEVER TRUST them when your under investigation. At the end of the day they want to massage their figures with a result. Make sure any witnesses back you up and make sure they give statements to that effect. What came out of the disclosure to your solicitor?
 
To be honest the solicitor wasn't much good, it was one supplied by the police not one iv spoken to privately, he sat there pretty quietly throughout. I did mention that surely the lads were committing an offense under section 4 public order, but the officer said it wasn't dealt with properly at the time as the police in attendance clearly wanted to go home so only took details at the time of the incident, so they cannot prove drunken disorderly behaviour 3 weeks later. And the guys friend confessed that the cannabis was his so that gets the lad off the "use of drugs" bit. Only thing that was positive is the "traffic" cop who was in attendance did write in his notes that the general behaviour and attitude of the group was terrible, and that can be made official.
 
operator144 said:
What did they interview you for (under caution and on tape) if you don't mind me asking??

ie what specific offence??
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Apparently the tape deck was broken so it all had to be done on paper, they haven't actually named a charge yet they just wanted my account of events to the incident, if the next phone call I recieve isn't that it's been swept under the carpet then I will be seeking proper legal advice. But I was read my rights and supplied a solicitor at the time.
 
The good old contemporaneous written record of interview. You need to find a solicitor that specialises in criminal defence / PACE. You need to be interviewed for a specific offence, if they are going to 'press charges'.

What they have done is interview under caution to ascertian your version of accounts, because that's what PACE demands them to do. Find yourself a decent lawyer and wait for them - as they would/ should technically have to re-interview you should any offence be forthcoming.

How can you accept a caution for an offence when the Police don't even know what the offence is!!
 
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Let me first qualify my statement, I am a Government Use Of Force Instructor. Everyone has a right to defend themselves from being assaulted. Contact against yourself does not have to have taken place for you to be assaulted, the assailant commits assault if they make a verbal threat in combination with a physical action that leads the victim to believe harm will befall them (Taken from CPS website). Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 states 'Any person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of a crime, or in the effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders unlawfully at large' you being assaulted is a crime! Yes you did by your own admission approach the person and that is for you to argue your case why, hope this helps.
 
Playing the Devils Advocate now - So what was the crime that was being prevented for S3 CLA67 to be enforced?

Assault: Any act that intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful violence.
 
Sorry to detract from your original post gymfreak - it's questions like this that should make you see why you need a lawyer and go to court.

I know exactly what angle 4front is coming from, however your knowledge has to be spot on - or (in my former life) I would have had you out of a job with no SIA ever again quicker than rats up a drain pipe if you came out with 'he was assaulting me'.
 
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Contrary to popular belief - if a (defence) solicitor is sat quietly in the corner, don't worry about it. He / She are there to protect your best legal interests. If they thought you were that bad then all that would be coming out of your mouth would be your right not to say anything or 'no comment'.
 
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operator144 said:
Playing the Devils Advocate now - So what was the crime that was being prevented for S3 CLA67 to be enforced?

Assault: Any act that intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful violence.
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Gymfreak mentions that he 'steps up', without being there at the time it isn't the easiest to determine what crime if any has been committed as 'steps up' is too vague. If Gymfreak felt that he was going to be assaulted he can indeed stop this from occurring using force that is proportionate to the threat, then comes the battle of justifying why you did what you did and i'll be the first to agree that at times this can be an uphill struggle.
 
ade2010 said:
Bite operator144 eyes out then take your chances because his former life means fuk all!!
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Reference the above statement,

I did not type this, It appears some one was playing with my phone at work last night as this is 1 of a few forums I have supposedly put this type of statement on.
If the mods could remove it I would be very grateful.
To operator144 and anyone else concerned I sincerely apologise

Ade
 
Hi guys just wanted to thank you all for your guidance, advice and opinions. I have just recieved a phone call from the police, they have finally viewed the CCTV and are not going to take the case any further. They felt I was justified to react and just advised that I act a little more gently in the future. Huge weight lifted off my shoulders since I will also be retiring from the door in 2 weeks time. Too many 18 year old security guard shirt filler type doorman about these days and the money is only going down so it's time to call it a day.

Thanks again guys, stay safe out there
 
Gymfreak you say you're retiring, but you never leave.
It calls you back time and time again.
it in the blood, in the mind and in the soul for ever.
 
I've posted this before and undoubtedly I will post it again.

Courtesy of InspectorGadget

Dealing With the Police

Complain First

Always get your complaint in first, even if it is you who started it and you who were in the wrong. If things have gone awry and you suspect the cops are going to be called, get your retaliation in first. Ring the cops right away and allege for all you are worth. If you can work a racist or homophobic slant into it so much the better.

Make a counter allegation

Regardless of the facts, never let the other side be blameless. If they beat you to the phone, ring anyway and make a counter allegation against them. Again racism or homophobia are your friends. If you are not from a visible minority ethnic culture, may I suggest that that the phrase “You gay bastard†or similar is always useful. In extremis allege sexual assault. It gives us something to bargain with when getting the other person to drop their complaint on a quid-pro-quo basis. This is particularly good where there are no independent witnesses. When it boils down to one word against another and nobody is ‘fessing up, CPS run a mile and you, my friend, are definitely on a walk out

Never explain to the Police

If the Police arrive to lock you up, say nothing. You are a decent person and you may think that reasoning with the Police will help. “If I can only explain, they will realise it is all a horrible mistake and go awayâ€. Wrong. We do want to talk to you on tape in an interview room but that comes later. All you are doing by trying to explain is digging yourself further in. We call that stuff a significant statement and we love it. Decent folk can’t help themselves, they think that they can talk their way out. Wrong.

Admit Nothing

To do anything more than lock you up for a few hours we need to prove a case. The easiest route to that is your admission. Without it, our case may be a lot weaker, maybe not enough to charge you with. In any case, it is always worth finding out exactly how damning the evidence is before you fall on your sword. So don’t do the decent and honourable thing and admit what you have done. Don’t even deny it or try to give your side of the story. Just say nothing. No confession and CPS are on the back foot already. They forsee a trial. They fear a trial. They are looking for any excuse to send you home free.
Keep your mouth shut
Say as little as possible to us. At the custody office desk a Sergeant will ask you some questions. It is safe to answer these. For the rest of the time, say nothing.

Claim Suicidal Thoughts

A debatable one this. Claiming to be thinking about topping yourself has several benefits. If you can keep it up, it might just bump up any compensation payable later. On the other hand you may find yourself in a paper suit with someone watching your every move.

Always always always have a solicitor

Duh. No brainer this one. Unless you know 100% for sure that your mate the solicitor does criminal law and is good at it, ask for the Duty Solicitor. They certainly do criminal law and they are good at it. Then listen to what the solicitor says and do it. Their job is to get you off without the Cops or CPS laying a glove on you if at all possible. It is what they get paid for. They are free to you. There is no down side. Now decent folks think it makes them look like they have something to hide if they ask for a solicitor. Irrelevant. Going into an interview without a solicitor is like taking a walk in Tottenham with a big gold Rolex. Bad things are very likely to happen to you. I wouldn’t do it and I interview people for a living.

Actively complain about every officer and everything they do

Did they cuff you when they brought you in? Were they rude to you? Did they racially or homophobically abuse you? Didn’t get fed? Cell too cold? You are decent folk who don’t want to make a fuss but trust me, it pays to whinge and no matter how trivial and / or poorly founded your complaint there are people who will uncritically listen to you and try and prove the complaint on your behalf. Some of them are even police officers. Nothing like a complaint to muddy the waters and suggest that you are only in court because the vindictive Cops have a grudge against you. Far fetched? Wait until your solicitor spins it in court and you come over as Ghandi.

Show no respect to the legal system or anybody working in it

You think that if you are a difficult, unpleasant, sneering, unco-operative and rude things will go badly for you and you will be in more trouble. No sirree Bob. It seems that in fact the worse you are, the easier things will go for you if, horror of horrors, you do end up convicted. Remember to fake a drink problem if you haven’t developed one as a result of dealing with us already. Magistrates and Judges do seem to like the idea that you are basically good but the naughty alcohol made you do it. They treat you better. Crazy I know but true.
So there you go, basically anything you try and do because you are decent and staightforward hurts you badly. Act like an habitual, professional, lifestyle criminal and chances are you will walk away relatively unscathed. Copy the bad guys, its what they do for a living.
 
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