Advice on my actions.

N

Nitesafe10

Full Registered User
I have recently been involved in an incident in my weekend job as a nitesafe officer. We assist police and door staff in our local town. Last weekend there was a situation where we assisted the police and I got criticised by the police for my actions, saying I was over the top. I have never been criticised before while doing this job or when I did the doors. I feel I'm been made a scape goat because the police didn't handle the situation right and if they did then the incident would have been nipped in the bud and things wouldn't of escalated. I feel my actions were justified and reasonable. I will be speaking to the local chief of police as I'm been investigated for my actions. I have always used reasonable force and never done anything that would put myself or my colleague in a position that would make use look unprofessional. I have written a full statement on my version of events from my perspective. Giving a step by step account of what I did and what I acted on. As I was helping two female officers which were struggling to help the fellow officers I thought my actions were inline with the situation and where it was heading. As we are only trained to the level of door supervisor I can only use that knowledge and experience to deal with aggressive situations. I always do a dynamic risk assessment while heading into a situation.
 
You are right to not have posted any of the specifics here. It also sounds like you have a plan in place and are working it, so not sure how much more to add really.

There will always be criticism in any difficult jobs where decisions need to be made on the fly, often there are no right decisions to be made and you just have to back up what you did as best you can.
 
Nitesafe10, just wondering how long you have been in the security industry? You joined this forum TODAY, and your seeking advice, without even introducing yourself to the fellow members on this great forum. In my view, I think its a little bit rude, to come running through our door panicking, and seeking advice.

Can I make a friendly suggestion? Get writing an introduction on here. then maybe the nice guys on The DS section on here may, just may want to help.

Good luck.
 
Relate your incident to previous assisted occurences.
compare the differences, if any and query why actions in the previous events were acceptable and this time deemed inappropriate.
bring into play your previous experience and commendations with the police.
seek testimony to this effect.
seek any CCTV available and then story board it blow by blow with your mind set and reasoning.
 
nitesafe10,

You have been given good advice by OJ, and I echo ops1 concerns/query
One thing I would add is, whatever the police say they have a hidden agenda,
They will show you in a dim light if it puts them in the clear, DO NOT except their findings if you don't agree with them.

regards

premier
 
Great advice above. The only thing I might add to this if I may is to perhaps seek legal advice of your own.

The majority of solicitors will give you an hour free so utilize it. Personally I would do this a few times with different solicitors.

Regards

Tony
 
As always, I will reiterate again.
EVERY security operator should have the equipment to hand they will need, be that a torch, a note book, a pen etc and the services of a good solicitor ; their card or number on speed dial.
 
Firstly may I apologise for the way I must of come across. I'm certainly not panicking, I was just wondering if anyone could give me anymore info.
Also I thought I had written an introduction, I'm still finding my feet on this forum. If you feel I fit the above description that you have made on my entrance to this forum, then that is your opinion and I except and constructive criticism from anyone replying to my post/s.
I will take a look at my introduction as I have not done it otherwise you wouldn't of found my appearance on hear so rude.
Again I apologise.
As for working in security I've been frontline for four years.
 
I always carry the equipment you listed Oj. I always write I step by step account of every incident we attend, for my ref. also I have to write a weekly report on the weekends events for the police, and licensing.
 
Oddjob said:
Relate your incident to previous assisted occurences.
compare the differences, if any and query why actions in the previous events were acceptable and this time deemed inappropriate.
bring into play your previous experience and commendations with the police.
seek testimony to this effect.
seek any CCTV available and then story board it blow by blow with your mind set and reasoning.
Click to expand...

I have all this prepared and ready for my meeting with the officer I'll be speaking to.
 
I was just seeking any extra advice anyone mite have on my subject, I am sorry for just appearing on hear and not giving a very good first impression, which is the first thing you asses when revellers approach the door of the venue you work.
Thanks for all your feed back, and comments. Again we learn from experience and from more experienced DS.
 
And don't give them anything unless its done on a) tape recorder (ie I am now handing over....) or b) you get a receipt note (before you hand it over).

Go and see what has to be said.
Make notes (lots of) which will then become 'legal privelage' ie the Police can't have a copy as you are using them to seek further legal advice.
Your Solicitor may suggest write to the IPCC if you believe that its the Police's fault and they're trying to cover something.
 
always best to hear what they have to say and whats being said about you before you make any comment.
a no comment interview is not a crime, it's your right.
often your no comment will make them reveal a little more of how they are thinking or what they are trying to achieve.
The police are often not your friend, and can on occasion be your biggest enemy,
no matter what affinity you feel or what ever you have done in the past to assist them.
It is a very political and closed organisation, and you are on the outside, you are not part of it and you do not belong.
thats the truth of it.
 
operator144 said:
And don't give them anything unless its done on a) tape recorder (ie I am now handing over....) or b) you get a receipt note (before you hand it over).

Go and see what has to be said.
Make notes (lots of) which will then become 'legal privelage' ie the Police can't have a copy as you are using them to seek further legal advice.


Your Solicitor may suggest write to the IPCC if you believe that its the Police's fault and they're trying to cover something.
Click to expand...

It's not that there trying to cover up anything, they just didn't act when the incident started. Rather than remove the epicentre of the problem, they let a member of the public intervene. Then it just escalated from there. I just want to make sure they realise I acted with good reason, and the hole thing could of been delt with, then I wouldn't be feeling like I'm the bad guy for assisting them when things got heated.
 
Oddjob said:
always best to hear what they have to say and whats being said about you before you make any comment.
a no comment interview is not a crime, it's your right.
often your no comment will make them reveal a little more of how they are thinking or what they are trying to achieve.
The police are often not your friend, and can on occasion be your biggest enemy,
no matter what affinity you feel or what ever you have done in the past to assist them.
It is a very political and closed organisation, and you are on the outside, you are not part of it and you do not belong.
thats the truth of it.
Click to expand...

This is it I'm not full sure what the report they have issued about me is. Weather it's my actions at the time of the event, or the fact I was so angry about been accused of been OTT, and then belittled and told in front of lots of the public and police that, IM NOT A POLICE OFFICER. Which I'm fully aware of, I have never or want to give that impression. So left left my position and went home because I then felt I was not in the right frame of mind to finish my shift, and THEN possibly have not reacted properly to any further incidents that night. Which then would of put myself and my colleague in a position.
I will see what's been said then take it from there.
 
you would be best of going to speak to a good local solicitor if the matter seems to be surrounding use of force as there could be the possibility that if the detained person has injuries or is making a complaint as suggested above the police may be looking for an easy option to pass the blame for any injuries caused and again as suggested i would be careful about handing over any written statements or accounts to the police before you have had correct legal advice as the police could look to build their case or their own accounts around what you have said.

also often when assisting the police many people door people may not be fully aware of the powers being used in respect of their powers to effect an arrest and common law powers of self defence but if the officers have requested your assistance then it can be expected their powers to detain and effect the arrest can be used by you also while helping them.

any advice you get from a criminal law firm should be free of charge and if you were to be interviewed by the police then as you have already provided a statement to them and the incident has passed they shouldn't have any grounds for arrest but it is often common for them to arrest people for an interview so it is essential to get a solicitor to ensure they don't overstep the mark.
 
DO NOT provide the Police with statement. In doing so, you provide them with a stick to beat you with. Say nothing and see what THEY have to say before you commit yourself.
 
Nitesafe,

I'm a fan of the "no reply interview"
Believe it or not there is a format to it, your lawyer will keep you right..
From memory start by confirming your name, age & D.O.B and address
Then let your solicitor inform the interviewing officer(s) that it is their advice to you,
That at this time, their client will not be answering any questions.
End of, say nothing else; not even if they say "would you like a glass of water" answer nothing !

regards

premier
 
For future reference:

Dealing With the Police

Complain First

Always get your complaint in first, even if it is you who started it and you who were in the wrong. If things have gone awry and you suspect the cops are going to be called, get your retaliation in first. Ring the cops right away and allege for all you are worth. If you can work a racist or homophobic slant into it so much the better.

Make a counter allegation

Regardless of the facts, never let the other side be blameless. If they beat you to the phone, ring anyway and make a counter allegation against them. Again racism or homophobia are your friends. If you are not from a visible minority ethnic culture, may I suggest that that the phrase “You gay bastard†or similar is always useful. In extremis allege sexual assault. It gives us something to bargain with when getting the other person to drop their complaint on a quid-pro-quo basis. This is particularly good where there are no independent witnesses. When it boils down to one word against another and nobody is ‘fessing up, CPS run a mile and you, my friend, are definitely on a walk out

Never explain to the Police

If the Police arrive to lock you up, say nothing. You are a decent person and you may think that reasoning with the Police will help. “If I can only explain, they will realise it is all a horrible mistake and go awayâ€. Wrong. We do want to talk to you on tape in an interview room but that comes later. All you are doing by trying to explain is digging yourself further in. We call that stuff a significant statement and we love it. Decent folk can’t help themselves, they think that they can talk their way out. Wrong.
Admit Nothing
To do anything more than lock you up for a few hours we need to prove a case. The easiest route to that is your admission. Without it, our case may be a lot weaker, maybe not enough to charge you with. In any case, it is always worth finding out exactly how damning the evidence is before you fall on your sword. So don’t do the decent and honourable thing and admit what you have done. Don’t even deny it or try to give your side of the story. Just say nothing. No confession and CPS are on the back foot already. They forsee a trial. They fear a trial. They are looking for any excuse to send you home free.
Keep your mouth shut
Say as little as possible to us. At the custody office desk a Sergeant will ask you some questions. It is safe to answer these. For the rest of the time, say nothing.
Claim Suicidal Thoughts
A debatable one this. Claiming to be thinking about topping yourself has several benefits. If you can keep it up, it might just bump up any compensation payable later. On the other hand you may find yourself in a paper suit with someone watching your every move.

Always always always have a solicitor

Duh. No brainer this one. Unless you know 100% for sure that your mate the solicitor does criminal law and is good at it, ask for the Duty Solicitor. They certainly do criminal law and they are good at it. Then listen to what the solicitor says and do it. Their job is to get you off without the Cops or CPS laying a glove on you if at all possible. It is what they get paid for. They are free to you. There is no down side. Now decent folks think it makes them look like they have something to hide if they ask for a solicitor. Irrelevant. Going into an interview without a solicitor is like taking a walk in Tottenham with a big gold Rolex. Bad things are very likely to happen to you. I wouldn’t do it and I interview people for a living.
Actively complain about every officer and everything they do

Did they cuff you when they brought you in? Were they rude to you? Did they racially or homophobically abuse you? Didn’t get fed? Cell too cold? You are decent folk who don’t want to make a fuss but trust me, it pays to whinge and no matter how trivial and / or poorly founded your complaint there are people who will uncritically listen to you and try and prove the complaint on your behalf. Some of them are even police officers. Nothing like a complaint to muddy the waters and suggest that you are only in court because the vindictive Cops have a grudge against you. Far fetched? Wait until your solicitor spins it in court and you come over as Ghandi.

Show no respect to the legal system or anybody working in it
You think that if you are a difficult, unpleasant, sneering, unco-operative and rude things will go badly for you and you will be in more trouble. No sirree Bob. It seems that in fact the worse you are, the easier things will go for you if, horror of horrors, you do end up convicted. Remember to fake a drink problem if you haven’t developed one as a result of dealing with us already. Magistrates and Judges do seem to like the idea that you are basically good but the naughty alcohol made you do it. They treat you better. Crazy I know but true.
So there you go, basically anything you try and do because you are decent and staightforward hurts you badly. Act like an habitual, professional, lifestyle criminal and chances are you will walk away relatively unscathed. Copy the bad guys, its what they do for a living.
 
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