Flight Crews Learn Self-Defense Techniques

Johnnymaczko

Full Registered User
Just something from the press...
(not that hasn´t been a part of flight attendent training until now...)

SUNRISE (CBS4) ― American Airlines pilot Jerry Leekey practiced breaking a man's nose, twisting his wrist and throwing him to the ground. It's part of a crew member self-defense training class at the Federal Air Marshal compound in Sunrise.

"The war on terrorism that we're involved in right now is not always being fought over in Afghanistan and Iraq anymore," Leekey said. "Pretty much our passengers and our crew are on the front lines right now. If something happens on the airplane, it's up to us to defend ourselves."

Federal Air Marshals won't release the exact numbers of how many crew members are trained in this voluntary course, but they do say the number is in the thousands. It's a day long course that teaches crew members how to spot suspicious behavior and react to problems before it's too late.

"Maybe the training can make a difference some day in a life or death situation," said American Airlines Pilot Joe Jones.

In the case of the alleged shoe bomber, pro-active crew members and passengers did make the difference in taking down Richard Reid on that Miami bound flight. Prosecutors said if Reid would have been successful in igniting his shoe bomb, the plane would have been blown to pieces.

"We have different responses to each of those kinds of events," said James Bauer, Special Agent in Charge of the Miami Field Office for Federal Air Marshals. " (It) allows us to very rapidly gather intelligence on different techniques that are being used against us and meld them into lesson plans that we can put in action into practical exercises for our guys as they fly everyday."

Federal Air Marshals work closely with the crew members on all the flights that they take.

"We're not on every flight and the crew members are," said Bauer. "Anything that we can do to help arm them with more techniques and more self defense techniques is all to the good."

Crew members spend part of the day training on mats in a large exercise room and later move into a flight simulator. It's the cabin of a 727 aircraft built to scale. That is where they are able to practice reacting to threats as they would in their everyday work environment. It's also the place where Federal Air Marshals practice their tactics to respond to some of the worst situations. Everything in the cabin is utilized in a variety of scenarios.

"We have a drink cart. We'll put it out.There there are two full lavatories on this simulator and we use them to do deceptive things to throw problems into the mix," Bauer said.

It's a race to prepare for the unexpected in a time where anything goes.

"You also know that the threat is training daily and they're professionals in what they're trying to do," said Jones. "So it's not gonna be an easy task necessarily."

Source cbs4
 
In the case of the alleged shoe bomber, pro-active crew members and passengers did make the difference in taking down Richard Reid on that Miami bound flight. Prosecutors said if Reid would have been successful in igniting his shoe bomb, the plane would have been blown to pieces.



Source cbs4

Err...Johhny...


Correct me if i am wrong but as far as i know a shoe bomb would not necessarly be fatal for an airplane ..

The way i learned was that the "skin" of an airplane is generally thinner than half an inch, but its made of light-weight but strong and highly-resistant aluminum,which anyway in case of a strong explosion would "peel of" allowing the shockwawe to go outside keeping the rest of the structure intact which would give the pilots a chance to land...

I mean yeah, we would have causalities because of high pressurization (or better said the depressurization ) and all that but that`s what the oxygen masks are for..And that`s why the pilots are instructed to dive under the 3000 meters limit (10.000 feet)


As far as i know even if you succeed in planting a bomb in the cargo area still...With the new explosion resistant cargo containers chances are that the plane will still survive...

Is that true...???

I must say that this is an interesting subject.....After all we are all using planes to travel..


Cheers!
 
Err...Johhny...


Correct me if i am wrong but as far as i know a shoe bomb would not necessarly be fatal for an airplane ..

The way i learned was that the "skin" of an airplane is generally thinner than half an inch, but its made of light-weight but strong and highly-resistant aluminum,which anyway in case of a strong explosion would "peel of" allowing the shockwawe to go outside keeping the rest of the structure intact which would give the pilots a chance to land...

I mean yeah, we would have causalities because of high pressurization (or better said the depressurization ) and all that but that`s what the oxygen masks are for..And that`s why the pilots are instructed to dive under the 3000 meters limit (10.000 feet)


As far as i know even if you succeed in planting a bomb in the cargo area still...With the new explosion resistant cargo containers chances are that the plane will still survive...

Is that true...???

I must say that this is an interesting subject.....After all we are all using planes to travel..


Cheers!
Hi Gorillanobaka1977,

In response to the shoe bomb being "fatal" if it were to explode in an aircraft, it´s important to remember that "ANY" changes to the aircraft could have an effect on manuvering the aircraft, changing direction, speed, altitude, etc...

In adition to this, you have hydraulic lines, fuel lines, and cabeling from front to back of the fuselage. If anyone one of these is damaged, the results could be devistating.

But specific to the shoe bomb by Richard Reid, the amount of PETN that was located in his shoe, would have been enough to cause serious damage to the aircraft, and according to professionals dealing with the case, would have brought the aircraft down. I dealt with the shoe bomb incident quite extensively, as my specialty in AVSEC is assessing human behavior, BPR (Behavior Pattern Recognition).

With regards to a device in the HOLD of the aircraft - (Cargo Area), there have been studies on specialized explosion containment cargo hold boxed - the aluminum boxes you see at airports, but I would prefer not to comment on who and who doesn´t have these specialized boxes. But yes they do work (based on the demonstrations I have attended, and video footage I have seen).

Oxigen masks - yes, they help when there is a sudden change in air presure. Only good for a couple minutes from time of deployment. Just enough time for the pilot to get below 10 000 feet.

The probelem is when you have an emergency, you need to go down below 10 000 feet, but you are e.g. in a storm, and the weather takes shakes the hell out of the plane, one of the possible causes of Air France Reo to Paris - for those of you who remember the close protection seminar at the Officer Club in London, and my lecture...

Happy Landings!

Stay Safe!

Johnnymaczko
jmaczko@526806.com
[url]www.526806.com[/URL]
 
It's a day long course.....


Thats it ****ing sorted then, a WHOLE day !! Be afraid you terrorist scum, be VERY afraid, chinese burns, dead legs and in all probability the 'Spoon Game' await any attempt to hijack any of OUR aircraft.

I'm losing the will to live here

Wouldn't armed sky marshalls be more relevant??

PS Gorilla, old horse, the shoe bomb was of a size that would have potentially breached the fuselage. If that had happened, as our Scots members are apt to say, your tea would be well and truly out.
 
It's a day long course.....


Thats it ****ing sorted then, a WHOLE day !! Be afraid you terrorist scum, be VERY afraid, chinese burns, dead legs and in all probability the 'Spoon Game' await any attempt to hijack any of OUR aircraft.

I'm losing the will to live here

Wouldn't armed sky marshalls be more relevant??

PS Gorilla, old horse, the shoe bomb was of a size that would have potentially breached the fuselage. If that had happened, as our Scots members are apt to say, your tea would be well and truly out.


Well , what can i say....I am glad they got`im..You know it`s funny...Last time when i flew from Paris me and the rest of the passengers had to remove our shoes for inspection (scanning) before boarding..That was in Charles de Gaulle...


As far as i was aware that was the standard practice in the french airports .
Did they actually changed the procedure ?? It`s been a while since i have not been in France.

Cheers
 
Hi Guys (Gorilla & Rocket)!

Rocket, couldn´t agree with you more (a whole day of training, wow...) The problem is flight attendents aren´t there to be Marshals, there job is primarily for safety (we passengers sometimes forget that, and think their only function is to serve coffee and tea). Is one day enough? Of course not, we train for months, practise for years and still don´t go into things alone (when avoildable of course). To be perfectly honest, I hope the day never comes when my wife (who is also a flight attendent) needs to intervene with a passenger.

Regarding Sky Marshals or as I prefer to call anyone in this role APO (Armed Protection Officers), It just can´t be done practically - to put an officer on every flight. And as we know, 1 officer - well maybe better to have a few...
APO´s have to be a part of the holistic approach to protecting our skys. Yes we need them, bt we also need the rest of the rings of our "security onion". Even when this is in place, and working, when we have "good control", we still can´t influence a very important charachteristic of the "threat", and that is the "intent". If someone wants to do something bad enough, they´ll find a way...
Remember the old text book material we had to study...

Going back to the "shoes off" policy Gorilla, this is part of the security regime in place at all airports. It is up to the airports however to ensure that it is maintained and at what level. Interesting enough EU legislation has just started dealing with is more, but it is important that threats will be at different levels in different countries, different airports. But shoes off, well so be it - (Yes the Richar Reid incident started it, but come to think of it I recall asking a passenger or two to remove there shoes back in the mid eighties, but maybe I was concerned about a knife, not an explosive device).

I personally have no problems in following these regs. And for the most part I think the majority of us dont´t either.

Be Safe!
John
 
Im not surprised at all but really had you guys had a real hard look at the flight personnel lately?
They are either former models or girls that never made it to the model career and ofcourse gays that are sometimes more female then the wimen themselfs, if we trust them to do selfdefence against Abdul Muhammad we have already pulled the short straw! Im sorry if my post offends someone, but we need to think and create Judge Dredd caracters who arrest and punish and give the sentence directly!

We are not up against people that have jetair crazy sickness its fxxking terrorists!
They should be trained in how to crack some sculls and kill someone with with an ice cold look

hawk
 
I don't care if they fight like Chuck Norris. I'd just be happy if the Flight Attendents gave me some water on a long flight. They always have time for those in the posh seats.
 
The "Fight Attendants" or "Trolley Dollies" male or female (or a mix of both) would be more interested in their makeup and what the terrorist was wearing (so last year) than breaking a nail in a bitch slapping contest ^^ :)

NASH..
 
Well I beg to differ a good friend of mine from school works as a male "trolly dolly" he is qualified and belted in both Henna and nailcare muhahahaha
sorry I do agree the steriotype trolly dolly dosnt lend itself to this bruce lee form of self defence, and it's a shame that most flight attendant staff are just walking steriotypes as for armed sky marshals, obviously firearms and compressed aircraft dont mix, are tazer's common place or do they risk setting off any device strapped to the person
(Hello by the way first post long time lurker, currently waiting to recive my docs back from the training provider since last year for DS course arghhh)
 
Melley,
As I am a certified Master Taser Trainer, and have looked at the implementation of Tasers for aviation security, Tasers are not practical, as they are classed as less lethal force - fantastic against an aggresive, assaultive individual - but mainly for a non compliant suspect who will not abide to verbal tactical communications (either because he/she is combative, under the influence of a narcotic substance or alcohol).
The thing with a sky marshal is that they are trained to intervine when things go "really wrong", not when an unruly passenger starts a fit.

As for bullets, well if a bulet goes through the skin an aircraft it won´t suck people through. It will start a certain amount of decompresion, but that´s not the issue.
The issue is that if a bullet goes through one person, it may not stop there - it may infact impact someone else as well. Also if a bullet were to penetrate hydraulics, cableing or rupture a fuel line - or go though the cockpit wall or door hitting the flight crew - well that is the real risk.

Alot has been talked about AFR (Air Freedom Round), which basically decintegrates on impact. It does exist, but don´t think anyone will coment on this.

Melley have to agree with you on the stereotyping of cabin crew as well.
I think most people don´t realize what their real job is. I train them and can say for a fact:
They are not there to disarm terrorists
They are not out to play rambo
There primary job is to provide assistance in the event of a flight emergency, and to ensure that in the event of an emergency landing, people leave the aircraft as quickly as possible.

I invite any questions on this to my e-mail:
jmaczko@526806.com
[url]www.526806.com[/URL]

Happy Landings!
Stay Safe!
John
 
Hey all,

Need help in development of curriculum on Urarmed combat/Self defence for air crew.

Looking at something that could provide, Locks and take down, kicks, pressure point/knock out, character behaviour recognition, strikes, and anyother thing that could aid air crew in ensuring safety of passengers and aircraft. Training meant for air crew in Nigeria.

An ideas would be appreciated, also business ideas could be worked out jointly.


Remain safe.
 
i work with a boeing 777 pilot and a counter terrorist expert / krav maga expert

the pilot has developed a programme with the help of a combat instructor and would most likely to communicate with you on this subject apparently the big thing a bout the training is stress innocuation !!

cheers
 
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